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How To: Breather Filter Conversion

This is a discussion on How To: Breather Filter Conversion within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Hey guys, I converted to breather filters a while ago, and I had a couple people ask me how to ...

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    How To: Breather Filter Conversion

    Hey guys, I converted to breather filters a while ago, and I had a couple people ask me how to do it, what filters to use, where to put them, ect.

    So I figured I'd snap a few pics for those who would like to know. Hope it helps.

    I used some $7 valve cover breathers from my local Advance Auto and Autozone. Autozone has the tapered ones, which is what used for the Oil cap. I drilled the oil cap out with a uni-bit, from both sides, and then used a Flat-wood bit to make the whole a the same daimeter all the way through. A small whole saw bit would also work well. I used a drill press, which made the job much easier, because I could keep the cap and bit perfectly steady while drilling though it. Beware though, being too rough will crack the oil cap, in which case you have to run to the dealer for a new one.


    Oil Cap



    Right Side Valve Cover



    Left Side Valve Cover


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    ORNGP33L 1BADDLS1's Avatar
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    nice how to

    start posting on fastlsx already

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    Senior Member greatwhiteZ28's Avatar
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    is there any gain from that, can i just buy the brreather filter and not use the stock cap or do i have to do what u did?

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    Correct me if I am wrong...
    But isn't the breather set-up not the best for a car used mostly on the street?
    I hear they work great on the race only builds, but those with street cars should stick to using a catch can.

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    Senior Member greatwhiteZ28's Avatar
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    didnt know that

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhiteZ28 View Post
    is there any gain from that, can i just buy the brreather filter and not use the stock cap or do i have to do what u did?
    There is no performance gain, its just to eliminate oil consumption through the PVC.

    You can just buy the breather filters and leave the cap alone, but you will not have as much breathability with only 2 filters, I noticed that lots of crap ends up in the top of the oil cap, so I fitted it with a filter.

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong...
    But isn't the breather set-up not the best for a car used mostly on the street?
    I hear they work great on the race only builds, but those with street cars should stick to using a catch can.
    Never heard that. I think the reason might be though that because there is no positive crankcase ventilation, vapors/moisture can built up in the crankcase and they have to escape through the filters instead of being sucked out by vacuum using the PCV system.

    I just check my oil frequently, so far so good. Oil looks good and clean on the dipstick with no signs of moisture, and condensation build up is relatively minimal (some yellow gunk in oil cap, since its cold out).

    I just didn't want a catch can, because while you can solve the oil burning problem, you still have a catch can full of useless oil that needs to be replaced in the crankcase.

    Before the invention of the PCV system (for emmissions, what else) all cars has some sort of breather filter setup. But the EPA determined that "crankcase vapors" were bad for the air and needed to be re-burned in the combustion chamber, so the PCV system was invented. If you look at any of the brand new GM crate motors, they all use breather filter setups, and they are for "non-pollution controlled" street cars.

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    disabling the pcv system on a daily driver is asking foir trouble.the pcv system pulls out most of the water vapor that gets pushed into the crankcase from the combustion process.those filters you installed will not pull the water vapor out,at best they will let crankcase vapors out and trap the water in.ever see what water left in a engine does?it turns into a nasty acid that pits and ruins everything.if you have that much blowby get a catch can or maybe run a breather on one valve cover but leave the pcv working.try this experiment,pull the oil fill cap off and with the engine cold start it up and run it for 15 mins.watch what comes out that hole.then remove the pcv and do it again.

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivi View Post
    disabling the pcv system on a daily driver is asking foir trouble.the pcv system pulls out most of the water vapor that gets pushed into the crankcase from the combustion process.those filters you installed will not pull the water vapor out,at best they will let crankcase vapors out and trap the water in.ever see what water left in a engine does?it turns into a nasty acid that pits and ruins everything.if you have that much blowby get a catch can or maybe run a breather on one valve cover but leave the pcv working.try this experiment,pull the oil fill cap off and with the engine cold start it up and run it for 15 mins.watch what comes out that hole.then remove the pcv and do it again.
    You really don't have any idea what you are talking about.

    As the engine warms up the water vapor rises and burns off. Water and oil don't mix, so the water vaporizes towards the top of the motor, and into the breather filters where it evaporates.

    My engine doesn't have blow-by, obviously you don't realize that the stock PCV system consumes oil even when working properly. Its inherent to the design, the only way to fix it is to install a catch can or convert to breather filters. Some convert to the LS6 PCV system, with mixed results.

    GM crate motors and older style engines don't have PCV systems. Period. They have breather filters on the valve covers to let the crankcase vapors and moisture escape. PCV is for emissions compliance more than anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    You really don't have any idea what you are talking about.

    As the engine warms up the water vapor rises and burns off. Water and oil don't mix, so the water vaporizes towards the top of the motor, and into the breather filters where it evaporates.

    My engine doesn't have blow-by, obviously you don't realize that the stock PCV system consumes oil even when working properly. Its inherent to the design, the only way to fix it is to install a catch can or convert to breather filters. Some convert to the LS6 PCV system, with mixed results.

    GM crate motors and older style engines don't have PCV systems. Period. They have breather filters on the valve covers to let the crankcase vapors and moisture escape. PCV is for emissions compliance more than anything else.
    BS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    You really don't have any idea what you are talking about.

    As the engine warms up the water vapor rises and burns off. Water and oil don't mix, so the water vaporizes towards the top of the motor, and into the breather filters where it evaporates.
    Sorry to disappoint but unless you have some positive flow (As in a PCV system) the moisture will accumulate in the block, heads and galleys along with any other blow by from the cylinder. Condensate from the combustion process will mix with the oil causing all kinds of nasties in your crankcase etc. Ever see the white foamy stuff under a valve cover(or your oil fill cap)?

    My engine doesn't have blow-by, obviously you don't realize that the stock PCV system consumes oil even when working properly. Its inherent to the design, the only way to fix it is to install a catch can or convert to breather filters. Some convert to the LS6 PCV system, with mixed results.[/QUOTE]

    All engines have some degree of blow by. Ring seals aren't perfect.

    GM crate motors and older style engines don't have PCV systems. Period. They have breather filters on the valve covers to let the crankcase vapors and moisture escape. PCV is for emissions compliance more than anything else.[/QUOTE]

    The breather on a race motor is there to allow crankcase pressure to equalize with atmosphere. If contained the internal pressure would soon begin to blow out gaskets and seals (Look at cylinder blow by). Back in the day, the hot set up was to upgrade an older non PCV equipped car with a PCV set up to induce a negative pressure (vacuum) in the crankcase. The conventional wisdom being that this would help increase piston speed upon detonation in the cylinder.

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivi View Post
    BS
    Thats what I thought. You can't back up what you say with any facts, so you just call "BS".

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    i already explained how it works in my post,what more do you need to know?i didn't make this stuff up.its basic engine design.trust me on this you run those filters for long without a pcv system and you won't need my proof.do it and watch what happens.

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSnow View Post
    Sorry to disappoint but unless you have some positive flow (As in a PCV system) the moisture will accumulate in the block, heads and galleys along with any other blow by from the cylinder. Condensate from the combustion process will mix with the oil causing all kinds of nasties in your crankcase etc. Ever see the white foamy stuff under a valve cover(or your oil fill cap)?
    Thats the reason I went to breather filters. I was getting nasty yellow crap in the oil cap from moisture buildup since the PCV got plugged up.

    All engines have some degree of blow by. Ring seals aren't perfect.
    Well obviously. What I meant was I don't have any more blow-by than normal

    The breather on a race motor is there to allow crankcase pressure to equalize with atmosphere. If contained the internal pressure would soon begin to blow out gaskets and seals (Look at cylinder blow by). Back in the day, the hot set up was to upgrade an older non PCV equipped car with a PCV set up to induce a negative pressure (vacuum) in the crankcase. The conventional wisdom being that this would help increase piston speed upon detonation in the cylinder.
    And...I don't believe that helped with power...correct me if I'm wrong though.

    So if the PCV sucks up oil like and coates the intake manifold, and breather filters alone "aren't enough" according to you guys, what is the solution?? Can you run breather filters with a PCV system?? That would probably cut oil usage, because the PCV would have somewhere to pull vacuum from instead of sucking oil out of the engine instead

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    well i'll try to explain some but its much more complicated than it appears.the real problem in the ls1 engines is excessive blowby.fix that and the problem is gone.that would involve replacing the pistons in most engines.even just one loose piston fouls the crankcase at WOT so bad and the oil-gases have to go someplace.the stock pcv system can't remove enough oil from vapors moving through it so it gets into the intake.the stock pcv system is a closed metered system.that means the computer measures all the air entering the engine including the air used for the pcv system.so if you just add a breather to the valve cover you start introducing umetered air.many do it without any big problems.the real solution is like i said proper piston-ring fit with the updated pcv air-oil seperator and a catch can.i used a catch can for about a month then had enough of emptying the thing.i was collecting 1 qt every 1000 miles with a 25k mile engine.the ls1 engines run good because they are loose,but thats also why they push oil.keep the pcv if you want a clean engine,without it within a short time you will have a mess.

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    i forgot something important,for every gal of gas you burn aprox 1 cup of water gets into the crankcase.so every tank full 16 cups of water go in,it gotta get back out somehow.need i say more?

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivi View Post
    i forgot something important,for every gal of gas you burn aprox 1 cup of water gets into the crankcase.so every tank full 16 cups of water go in,it gotta get back out somehow.need i say more?
    Well not all 16 cups are going into the crankcase. Not even close. The majority (probably about 99%) of it gets burned or expelled out the exhaust as water vapor, and the other 1% gets past the rings and enters the crankcase.

    Since oil and water won't mix, the water will be separated from the oil in the crankcase. With a fully warmed up engine (190 degrees), the water is either going to evaporate into the top end (thats where breathers come in) or its just going to just burn up. Either way its being expelled from the crankcase.

    If you look at the PCV system on many other cars, its nothing more than a tiny tube going from the valve cover to the air intake tube. How much vacuum is on that tube?? Almost nothing. You can spray TB cleaner into the air intake side, and the motor won't even suck it up under throttle. Its merely designed to collect vapors that are expelled from the crankcase and "burn them up" instead of releasing them into the air.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Well not all 16 cups are going into the crankcase. Not even close. The majority (probably about 99%) of it gets burned or expelled out the exhaust as water vapor, and the other 1% gets past the rings and enters the crankcase.

    Since oil and water won't mix, the water will be separated from the oil in the crankcase. With a fully warmed up engine (190 degrees), the water is either going to evaporate into the top end (thats where breathers come in) or its just going to just burn up. Either way its being expelled from the crankcase.

    If you look at the PCV system on many other cars, its nothing more than a tiny tube going from the valve cover to the air intake tube. How much vacuum is on that tube?? Almost nothing. You can spray TB cleaner into the air intake side, and the motor won't even suck it up under throttle. Its merely designed to collect vapors that are expelled from the crankcase and "burn them up" instead of releasing them into the air.
    where do you come up with this stuff?do you have any idea how much water vapor is in air?do you know what emulsion is?how do you think water vapor can pass through those filters mixed with oil?1 cup of water(MINIMUM) per gallon of gas in the CRANKCASE.i can see by your posts you follow alot of wifes tales without using any real knowledge of what you are discussing.seriously if you are really interested in autos and want to work on them take a course at a community college or some other type of schooling.if you really want to comment on this,figure out how much air is mixed with 1 gallon of fuel @ 70 degees @ 50% humidity and tell me how much water vapor was ingested into the engine and @ 12% cylinder leakage how much of that water vapor went into the cranckcase.you figure that out and talk some real science and i'll listen!
    Last edited by Rivi; 03-06-2007 at 07:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    There is no performance gain, its just to eliminate oil consumption through the PVC.

    You can just buy the breather filters and leave the cap alone, but you will not have as much breathability with only 2 filters, I noticed that lots of crap ends up in the top of the oil cap, so I fitted it with a filter.
    if it didn't improve performance then why bother?did the oil in the intake cause you some kind of worry? i don't get the reason?

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivi View Post
    if it didn't improve performance then why bother?did the oil in the intake cause you some kind of worry? i don't get the reason?
    Hmm lets see..

    The PCV was pulling about quart of oil into the intake every 1500 miles. Not only is that bad in terms of oil consumption, but its sure as hell not good to be burning that much oil. The whole intake manifold was coated in a film of oil, and oil in the combustion chambers is not a good thing either. Spark plugs tend to foul out when exposed to oil, in case you didn't know

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