Help!!!!

[SMWS6TA]

Long story-short...Did a burn out last Saturday and bounced the rev-limiter UNintentionally twice. A little while later I start hearing noise from what sounds like it was from the passenger cylinder. I was thinking possible bent push rods or something with the rocker arms.

Now today....

OK I pulled the cover. I checked all the rocker arms prior to loosing them,all except the ones on the compression side had some side to side play to them. The ones that were compressing did not. I can't say how much was too much, I just know that they all seem to have the same amount of play and none had up or down play, ONLY SIDE TO SIDE. I saw no metal in the cylinder and I also checked all the valve springs and none move at all.






I checked the push rods and all seem to be fine. No obvious bends when I rolled them on a flat level surface.



SO now what?





Need to know what the torque specs for the rocker arms.

[Firebirdjones]

Now it sounds like you have a dilema on your hands. This was the easiest and obvious check. Since this panned out fine you may have to dig deeper.

Any chance you can post a video of the noise?

[SMWS6TA]

I'll get it back together and see if it replicates the noise.

[SMWS6TA]

FBJ,

I re-torque the rockers down to 22 ft lbs and got the passenger side button up. The noise seems to be gone from the passenger side but now I hear the same noise on the drivers side but not as much or as loud as what was on the passenger side.

I'll be tearing into the drivers side in the morning.

Is it possible that the rockers got loose?

[Firebirdjones]

I've never seen them get loose before, but I guess it's always a possibility.

If you only checked one side, I'd go ahead and check the pushrods on the other side as well just to be certain. Sometimes noises have a strange way of traveling through the engine.

[tatertot91]

+1
let us know what you find out.

[SMWS6TA]

Just finished checking the drivers side and it's still there. I shot this video....I hope you can hear the noise I'm talking about it's around 0:15 through :028 seconds of the video.


the first 15 seconds is at idle.

[Firebirdjones]

If I heard that right, it almost sounds like a mild bearing knock. Could be mild piston slap?

Was the engine cold? Does it go away when warm? Oil pressure doing anything funny yet?

[SMWS6TA]

First start up of the day, OP is reading normal, haven't let it get warmed up enough because of the noise, kinda afraid it might be bearings going bad.



Should I let it run for 5 mins?

[Firebirdjones]

Could change the oil and check the drain plug for any unusually large amount of metal stuck to it. Most LS engines will have a tiny amount, so I wouldn't be alarmed at that, but if it's caked it might raise some concern.

Could even cut the oil filter apart just to be absolutely certain everything is okay.

If that all checks out I'd then let the engine run for a while, idle for 5 minutes should be long enough for cylinders to build heat and quiet down any possible piston slap.

These are some of the things I would do.

The video definately gave me the impression it was deeper down inside.

[SMWS6TA]

checked with a automotive stethoscope and couldn't track it down. I'm calling a buddy of mine to have a go. See if he can find it.

[pajeff02]

Curious to see what you find. So hard to judge by the video. As long as you have good oil pressure, I do not see any harm in running it a bit to get it up to temp. You are not putting it under load at idle and if damage has been done you need to determine what and how bad. I agree with cutting open the filter and checking the drain plug magnet. Not sure what you use to change oil, but not a bad idea to start with a clean drain pan and then go fishing in the oil with a magnet or dump it through a paint filter to see if there is any debris.

I bounced ours off the rev limiter for the first time a few days ago... doing a burnout.

[Smittro]

Possibly a header gasket starting to leak? Hard to tell from the video. Maybe a lifter getting noisey.

[2002ssslp]

You are going to have to get some heat into the engine to get a better idea of where the noise is coming from. I would drive it lightly around town and see what happens. You may have damage that will need to be corrected and it is not going to get better or fix itself. Drive the car and see what is broken. I feel it may just be a header gasket because the rev limiter is there for a reason. Bouncing off of it will limit damage to push rods usually, if you have good oil pressure the bearing should be safe.

[SMWS6TA]

Just so I can eliminate it being a header gasket I'll check it by pulling off the header. I checked for it before and couldn't fell any leaks.

Had a couple of local LS guys come over and listen and both seem to think it might be a bad lifter.

Can anyone describe how a lifter problem sounds like?

While listening with the stethoscope I have to say it sounds like a sewing machine like in this video and it sounds very close to what I hear below 3500 rpms, but not as loud. After 3500 rpms my headers drown out everything. (my neighbors are loving me right now )




What does it take to pull/check lifters? I have an idea but wanting to make sure....

Drain radiator fluid, Pull intake, cylinder heads, water pump, and timing cover. Remove timing chain, and spin the crank to have all the lifters "float" up or in this case pull them with a magnet. Am I missing anything?


How would I know if the lifter is bad?


Does a bad lifter mean new cam?

[pajeff02]

If it's a bad lifter, it means that it has "collapsed" and is not pumping up. Hydraulic lifters use oil pressure to take up any slack in the system. If a lifter is collapsed, it will usually cause a knocking or ticking sound. It is unlikely that any damage to the camshaft would result. You can try and run the engine with the rocker cover removed and see if any of the push rods are dancing around more than the others, or if you have a rocker that seems to be traveling less than the others.

[Cutlass]

Are ya sure you're just not being paranoid? These engines sound like sewing machines even when nothing really wrong with them.
I have one good way to check to valve train problems and it might sound crazy or scary, but it works most of the time. Start by pulling the valve cover on the side you wanna check and hook the coil pack back up so you can run the engine. get a longer prybar or screw driver ready and start the engine. Watch the rocker arms move up and down. If you see one that looks funny (ie not moving as much) then that might be your problem area. If they look ok, then firmly press the screwdriver or pry bar against the rocker arm on the pushrod side. Push nice and hard. Move from rocker arm to rocker arm. What you are trying to do is cause a change in the valve train ticking noise. If you hit one that has excessive play or a collapsing lifter, you'll hear the noise get worse or quieter depending on the problem. You should be able to tell which ones aren't changed and which one is changing.
This method is messy. Oil splashes around a little bit but not terribly. If you have the time, make a little shield to keep oil off the header. I usually don't do that...I just let the mess fly and clean up later.

[98TransAmWs-6]

Just so I can eliminate it being a header gasket I'll check it by pulling off the header. I checked for it before and couldn't fell any leaks.

Had a couple of local LS guys come over and listen and both seem to think it might be a bad lifter.

Can anyone describe how a lifter problem sounds like?

While listening with the stethoscope I have to say it sounds like a sewing machine like in this video and it sounds very close to what I hear below 3500 rpms, but not as loud. After 3500 rpms my headers drown out everything. (my neighbors are loving me right now )




What does it take to pull/check lifters? I have an idea but wanting to make sure....

Drain radiator fluid, Pull intake, cylinder heads, water pump, and timing cover. Remove timing chain, and spin the crank to have all the lifters "float" up or in this case pull them with a magnet. Am I missing anything?


How would I know if the lifter is bad?


Does a bad lifter mean new cam?

To check and remove the lifters the procedure is this:
1. Remove airbox,intake,and tb.
2. Remove coil packs and valve covers .
3. Loosen rocker arms and remove push rods.
4. Remove all the header bolts.
5. Remove the small 10mm bolts at the top of the heads and the 15mm bolts inside and on the outside near the header bolts.
6. Remove the 3 15mm bolts on the back of the heads for the transmission dipstick and grounding wires.
7. Remove heads.
8. Remove lifter trays with a 8mm socket (I think).
9. Use pliers to grip the outside of the lifters and pull out and check them. If all looks good push them back in.
10. Repeat the steps in reverse.

Keep in mind you will need new head gaskets and head bolts.

It is not worth it unless you are replacing stuff.

[cammed goat]

I'm thinking a blown header gasket as well. A good rev will blow enough pressure to cause a leak. Let the car run with the hood open and listen for the "tick" and feel around the header area and look for black soot where the header meets the cylinder head. Also check under the car to see if a flange has worked itself loose between the Y-pipe and catback. Look for the simple stuff first is the way I go at cars.

[SMWS6TA]

Well after 2.5 hrs of fun and in the dark with flash lights and lamps I got it ready to pull the heads off tomorrow.




Header gaskets show what look like minor leaks but I know a couple of bolts back off a little (because of how easy they were to get off). Also think I found 3 places that might be causing or have potential for vacuum leaks and #7 cyl plug wire needs replaced. All plugs look good, but I will most likely change them for new ones anyways while I've got them out.


Nothing so far that would convince me not to go further investigating.


EDIT NOTE: I'll get pics of the header gaskets to show what I mean and post in the morning, too dark to get a good pic.


Wife gave me the talk...."Fix which ever one is the cheapest to repair".....she about her pants when I showed her the cost of her Jeep repair ($1100) She told me to fix mine if it's the lifters ($280, I also threw in new harden push rods). If it's further down in the motor the LQ4 short block might be getting move to the head of the line All I need is a good set of used 5.3 or 243 heads and cam. I'll pull everything else off the LS1 and worry about building it up later.