Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 139
Like Tree2Likes

Help!!!!

This is a discussion on Help!!!! within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Long story-short...Did a burn out last Saturday and bounced the rev-limiter UN intentionally twice. A little while later I start ...

  1. #1
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ugy Lower Corner of AL
    Posts
    10,511

    Navy Blue Metallic
    98 T/A w/a little mods...

    Help!!!!

    Long story-short...Did a burn out last Saturday and bounced the rev-limiter UNintentionally twice. A little while later I start hearing noise from what sounds like it was from the passenger cylinder. I was thinking possible bent push rods or something with the rocker arms.

    Now today....

    OK I pulled the cover. I checked all the rocker arms prior to loosing them,all except the ones on the compression side had some side to side play to them. The ones that were compressing did not. I can't say how much was too much, I just know that they all seem to have the same amount of play and none had up or down play, ONLY SIDE TO SIDE. I saw no metal in the cylinder and I also checked all the valve springs and none move at all.






    I checked the push rods and all seem to be fine. No obvious bends when I rolled them on a flat level surface.



    SO now what?





    Need to know what the torque specs for the rocker arms.
    Last edited by SMWS6TA; 11-23-2012 at 12:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Now it sounds like you have a dilema on your hands. This was the easiest and obvious check. Since this panned out fine you may have to dig deeper.

    Any chance you can post a video of the noise?

  3. #3
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ugy Lower Corner of AL
    Posts
    10,511

    Navy Blue Metallic
    98 T/A w/a little mods...

    I'll get it back together and see if it replicates the noise.

  4. #4
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ugy Lower Corner of AL
    Posts
    10,511

    Navy Blue Metallic
    98 T/A w/a little mods...

    FBJ,

    I re-torque the rockers down to 22 ft lbs and got the passenger side button up. The noise seems to be gone from the passenger side but now I hear the same noise on the drivers side but not as much or as loud as what was on the passenger side.

    I'll be tearing into the drivers side in the morning.

    Is it possible that the rockers got loose?

  5. #5
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    I've never seen them get loose before, but I guess it's always a possibility.

    If you only checked one side, I'd go ahead and check the pushrods on the other side as well just to be certain. Sometimes noises have a strange way of traveling through the engine.

  6. #6
    Senior Member tatertot91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Coral Springs, Fl
    Posts
    5,773

    Sunset Orange Metalic
    2001 Camaro SS

    +1
    let us know what you find out.

  7. #7
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ugy Lower Corner of AL
    Posts
    10,511

    Navy Blue Metallic
    98 T/A w/a little mods...

    Just finished checking the drivers side and it's still there. I shot this video....I hope you can hear the noise I'm talking about it's around 0:15 through :028 seconds of the video.


    the first 15 seconds is at idle.



  8. #8
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    If I heard that right, it almost sounds like a mild bearing knock. Could be mild piston slap?

    Was the engine cold? Does it go away when warm? Oil pressure doing anything funny yet?

  9. #9
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ugy Lower Corner of AL
    Posts
    10,511

    Navy Blue Metallic
    98 T/A w/a little mods...

    First start up of the day, OP is reading normal, haven't let it get warmed up enough because of the noise, kinda afraid it might be bearings going bad.



    Should I let it run for 5 mins?

  10. #10
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Could change the oil and check the drain plug for any unusually large amount of metal stuck to it. Most LS engines will have a tiny amount, so I wouldn't be alarmed at that, but if it's caked it might raise some concern.

    Could even cut the oil filter apart just to be absolutely certain everything is okay.

    If that all checks out I'd then let the engine run for a while, idle for 5 minutes should be long enough for cylinders to build heat and quiet down any possible piston slap.

    These are some of the things I would do.

    The video definately gave me the impression it was deeper down inside.

  11. #11
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ugy Lower Corner of AL
    Posts
    10,511

    Navy Blue Metallic
    98 T/A w/a little mods...

    checked with a automotive stethoscope and couldn't track it down. I'm calling a buddy of mine to have a go. See if he can find it.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator
    pajeff02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mansfield, PA
    Posts
    21,576

    Black & Blue
    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    Curious to see what you find. So hard to judge by the video. As long as you have good oil pressure, I do not see any harm in running it a bit to get it up to temp. You are not putting it under load at idle and if damage has been done you need to determine what and how bad. I agree with cutting open the filter and checking the drain plug magnet. Not sure what you use to change oil, but not a bad idea to start with a clean drain pan and then go fishing in the oil with a magnet or dump it through a paint filter to see if there is any debris.

    I bounced ours off the rev limiter for the first time a few days ago... doing a burnout.

  13. #13
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    9,965

    White
    2008 Hummer H3

    Possibly a header gasket starting to leak? Hard to tell from the video. Maybe a lifter getting noisey.

  14. #14
    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Branchville, NJ
    Posts
    3,111

    Silver & Blue
    02 Camaro SS, 04 GTO

    You are going to have to get some heat into the engine to get a better idea of where the noise is coming from. I would drive it lightly around town and see what happens. You may have damage that will need to be corrected and it is not going to get better or fix itself. Drive the car and see what is broken. I feel it may just be a header gasket because the rev limiter is there for a reason. Bouncing off of it will limit damage to push rods usually, if you have good oil pressure the bearing should be safe.
    My ride is a 2002 Camaro SS SLP #3296 with 30k, LTH, 3" Y, CME, Frost tune, K&N, ported TB, Blackwing lid, Bellows, MSD, Denso Iridium, and 85mm MAF, Bilsteins, Eibach springs, SLP strut brace, Adj. Panhard, TA Girdle, UMI, Pro 5.0, Nitto NT555
    My wife has a 2004 GTO with the rare SAP, 18" wheels, K&N Cold Air System, MSD, Ported TB, Frost tune, Denso Iridium, Flowmaster cat-back, 3200 Yank, 75k

  15. #15
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ugy Lower Corner of AL
    Posts
    10,511

    Navy Blue Metallic
    98 T/A w/a little mods...

    Just so I can eliminate it being a header gasket I'll check it by pulling off the header. I checked for it before and couldn't fell any leaks.

    Had a couple of local LS guys come over and listen and both seem to think it might be a bad lifter.

    Can anyone describe how a lifter problem sounds like?

    While listening with the stethoscope I have to say it sounds like a sewing machine like in this video and it sounds very close to what I hear below 3500 rpms, but not as loud. After 3500 rpms my headers drown out everything. (my neighbors are loving me right now )




    What does it take to pull/check lifters? I have an idea but wanting to make sure....

    Drain radiator fluid, Pull intake, cylinder heads, water pump, and timing cover. Remove timing chain, and spin the crank to have all the lifters "float" up or in this case pull them with a magnet. Am I missing anything?


    How would I know if the lifter is bad?


    Does a bad lifter mean new cam?

  16. #16
    Super Moderator
    pajeff02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mansfield, PA
    Posts
    21,576

    Black & Blue
    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    If it's a bad lifter, it means that it has "collapsed" and is not pumping up. Hydraulic lifters use oil pressure to take up any slack in the system. If a lifter is collapsed, it will usually cause a knocking or ticking sound. It is unlikely that any damage to the camshaft would result. You can try and run the engine with the rocker cover removed and see if any of the push rods are dancing around more than the others, or if you have a rocker that seems to be traveling less than the others.

  17. #17
    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    6,998

    1999 Formula WS6 M6-sold
    2001 Silverado Z71

    Are ya sure you're just not being paranoid? These engines sound like sewing machines even when nothing really wrong with them.
    I have one good way to check to valve train problems and it might sound crazy or scary, but it works most of the time. Start by pulling the valve cover on the side you wanna check and hook the coil pack back up so you can run the engine. get a longer prybar or screw driver ready and start the engine. Watch the rocker arms move up and down. If you see one that looks funny (ie not moving as much) then that might be your problem area. If they look ok, then firmly press the screwdriver or pry bar against the rocker arm on the pushrod side. Push nice and hard. Move from rocker arm to rocker arm. What you are trying to do is cause a change in the valve train ticking noise. If you hit one that has excessive play or a collapsing lifter, you'll hear the noise get worse or quieter depending on the problem. You should be able to tell which ones aren't changed and which one is changing.
    This method is messy. Oil splashes around a little bit but not terribly. If you have the time, make a little shield to keep oil off the header. I usually don't do that...I just let the mess fly and clean up later.
    -------------------------------------
    Kooks 1 7/8" race headers, Kooks ORY, Borla catback, Nitto 555R, LS6 intake manifold, Shaner S3 ported stock throttle body, SLP lid, smooth bellows, JAAM Ram Air kit, Elite Engineering catch can, LS6 valley cover, EGR and AIR deleted, Frost tune, and Simpson Racing child car seat in the back. 13.2 @ 108MPH

  18. #18
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    3,596

    Black/ Silver
    98 TA WS6/ 01 C5 Corvette

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Just so I can eliminate it being a header gasket I'll check it by pulling off the header. I checked for it before and couldn't fell any leaks.

    Had a couple of local LS guys come over and listen and both seem to think it might be a bad lifter.

    Can anyone describe how a lifter problem sounds like?

    While listening with the stethoscope I have to say it sounds like a sewing machine like in this video and it sounds very close to what I hear below 3500 rpms, but not as loud. After 3500 rpms my headers drown out everything. (my neighbors are loving me right now )




    What does it take to pull/check lifters? I have an idea but wanting to make sure....

    Drain radiator fluid, Pull intake, cylinder heads, water pump, and timing cover. Remove timing chain, and spin the crank to have all the lifters "float" up or in this case pull them with a magnet. Am I missing anything?


    How would I know if the lifter is bad?


    Does a bad lifter mean new cam?
    To check and remove the lifters the procedure is this:
    1. Remove airbox,intake,and tb.
    2. Remove coil packs and valve covers .
    3. Loosen rocker arms and remove push rods.
    4. Remove all the header bolts.
    5. Remove the small 10mm bolts at the top of the heads and the 15mm bolts inside and on the outside near the header bolts.
    6. Remove the 3 15mm bolts on the back of the heads for the transmission dipstick and grounding wires.
    7. Remove heads.
    8. Remove lifter trays with a 8mm socket (I think).
    9. Use pliers to grip the outside of the lifters and pull out and check them. If all looks good push them back in.
    10. Repeat the steps in reverse.

    Keep in mind you will need new head gaskets and head bolts.

    It is not worth it unless you are replacing stuff.
    1998 Trans Am WS6 - Phantom
    421 CI LQ9, Tick Performance Custom Cam, TFS 255cc LS3 heads, Kooks 2" LT headers, Kooks 3" True Duals w/ high flow cats, FTP 104 lid, Speed Density Tune, 4" silicon tube, LS6 VCT, FAST 102 Intake, NW 102 TB, Oil Catch Can, SLP Bilstein Shocks w/ Vogtland Springs, CTS-V 4-piston Calipers w/C6 Z06 rotors, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, R1 concepts premium rotors, Hawk HP+ brake pads, VFN WSQ Hood, C5-R timing chain, SLP oil pump, E85 tune, Walbro 450 fuel pump, Deatschwerkz 95# injectors, Breathless performance headlights, Frost Tune, !HVAC.
    (Coming Soon) BMR DSL, UMI TQ Arm
    421 LQ9 14.8:1 on E85 Build/

  19. #19
    Smiles for 9.5 Years cammed goat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Paterson/Ridgewood, NJ
    Posts
    11,474

    Phantom Black Metallic
    2004 GTO M6

    I'm thinking a blown header gasket as well. A good rev will blow enough pressure to cause a leak. Let the car run with the hood open and listen for the "tick" and feel around the header area and look for black soot where the header meets the cylinder head. Also check under the car to see if a flange has worked itself loose between the Y-pipe and catback. Look for the simple stuff first is the way I go at cars.

  20. #20
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ugy Lower Corner of AL
    Posts
    10,511

    Navy Blue Metallic
    98 T/A w/a little mods...

    Well after 2.5 hrs of fun and in the dark with flash lights and lamps I got it ready to pull the heads off tomorrow.




    Header gaskets show what look like minor leaks but I know a couple of bolts back off a little (because of how easy they were to get off). Also think I found 3 places that might be causing or have potential for vacuum leaks and #7 cyl plug wire needs replaced. All plugs look good, but I will most likely change them for new ones anyways while I've got them out.


    Nothing so far that would convince me not to go further investigating.


    EDIT NOTE: I'll get pics of the header gaskets to show what I mean and post in the morning, too dark to get a good pic.


    Wife gave me the talk...."Fix which ever one is the cheapest to repair".....she about her pants when I showed her the cost of her Jeep repair ($1100) She told me to fix mine if it's the lifters ($280, I also threw in new harden push rods). If it's further down in the motor the LQ4 short block might be getting move to the head of the line All I need is a good set of used 5.3 or 243 heads and cam. I'll pull everything else off the LS1 and worry about building it up later.
    Last edited by SMWS6TA; 11-29-2012 at 08:20 PM.

Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •