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Help!!!

This is a discussion on Help!!! within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; no, on the gauges there's a light that says security. You'd probably have noticed it if it was on I ...

  1. #21
    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    no, on the gauges there's a light that says security. You'd probably have noticed it if it was on I would think.

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    I just went out and tried starting it again. It started like a champ over and over for about 7-8 times. Then, it would just turn and not start- the security light would stay on solid, then go out after a few seconds.

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    Do you have a spare ignition key?

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    The GM ignitions with the chip in the key with the little black plastic square ring around it are famous for messing up. Some of the instances in which they will not turn on the security light but will disable the starting procedure. They use the same ignition on caddy's that are plagued with problems. All that little chip does is put an ohm load on the ignition that has to match up with a small diode in the security system. Sometimes if they dont make good contact, or if the chip is loose in the key or something like that it will not start but not turn on the light either. There is a way to test it but I dont remember what it is.
    Ashes to ashes and dust to dust, if it wasn't for fords our tools would rust

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
    The GM ignitions with the chip in the key with the little black plastic square ring around it are famous for messing up. Some of the instances in which they will not turn on the security light but will disable the starting procedure. They use the same ignition on caddy's that are plagued with problems. All that little chip does is put an ohm load on the ignition that has to match up with a small diode in the security system. Sometimes if they dont make good contact, or if the chip is loose in the key or something like that it will not start but not turn on the light either. There is a way to test it but I dont remember what it is.
    vats will normally kill the fuel pump and the starter though....his is still cranking but not starting. There's been people on here that have driven years with the security light on all the time before it disabled the car too. When my vats went it lit the security light and I had to wait like 4 minutes and then it would start so I bypassed the whole system.
    I'm kind of at a loss here to tell you where to go next. It being intermittent like that. I would probably get it to do it again and see if you have spark. If no spark I would probably look at that ignition relay first.

  6. #26
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    Good thought though I tried my other key too last night when my friend brought it to me at the Walmart parking lot as I sat there with a hundred dollars of groceries and a car that would just crank forever. No security light on the gauges Orion.

  7. #27
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    The vats will normally shut everything down but not very often will not. But since the spare key was tried with no luck that kills the vats chip interface theory. I agree with Orion, when it does it, check the spark and go from there. GOOD LUCK.

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    Thanx for all your help tho. I really do appreciate it. I'll be replacing the starter and ignition relays just to rule those out. If no worky, then I'm prolly just going to put in that MSD starter (5096 I think). I would also like to take it to a shop to delete the o2's and stuff. But I need it workin right obviously before I can get it tuned.

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    And checkin the spark during intermittent failure. If no spark, does that indicate the starter problem?

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    the relay is cheap so I would definitely do that but before I did the starter I would chase those wires and make sure there's not a chaffe or corrosion on them. Normally if that's the case it'll act more like a dead battery which yours is not. Is the motor cranking slow? If the starter is turning the motor over with any decent kind of speed you can rule the starter out. The more I'm thinking about it the more I'm convincing myself it's that relay.

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    What other relays might be acting up that he can check with a quick swap out? If the ignition relay is bad the car would not crank. He can hear the fuel pump prime -- I assume every time he has tried to start the car. Anything else?

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    No, spark and starter are two separate items. If you hit the key and nothing happens its starter related, not necessarily a starter, but starter related. If you hit the key and it cranks but doesnt fire its spark/ignition related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    What other relays might be acting up that he can check with a quick swap out? If the ignition relay is bad the car would not crank. He can hear the fuel pump prime -- I assume every time he has tried to start the car. Anything else?
    he's already verified fuel pressure. I'm not sure if that a.i.r. relay is the same as the ignition relay....if it was he could just swap them to test the ignition relay but I'm not sure if they're the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
    No, spark and starter are two separate items. If you hit the key and nothing happens its starter related, not necessarily a starter, but starter related. If you hit the key and it cranks but doesnt fire its spark/ignition related.
    that's what I was thinking and I was also thinking that the starter may be getting hot from the repetitive cranking and that's why it's not engaging sometimes??? That's a guess though.

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    Orion, No the motor doesn't crank slow, it seems like it could start at any moment, it just doesn't.

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    What could be the cause if there's no spark?

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    I just went and looked at the relays....the air pump relay is way smaller so you can't swap those. You could try to get it to do it again and tap that relay with the butt end of a screwdriver and see if it's sticking. I would probably just swap it though. I haven't looked it up but it has to be cheap. I'll look it up now.

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    I looked it up earlier, around $12

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    I'll be sure to let you all know how things go tomorrow. Thanks everyone for your help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weberje View Post
    But normally I can consistently just crank away without it starting. I WAS messin with the fuses this past weekend checking for any visible breaks as I was replacing my turn signal bulbs so I may also look into the relay idea. I guess I'll be ordering a new starter then if that doesn't work?

    Get the starter tested at a rewinding shop before you just throw one on there. And 50psi is too low on your fuel pressure.....


    Also try another key if you have one to rule out a bad resistor. I didn't realize that sometimes it wouldn't turn over....

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