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Fuel injectors

This is a discussion on Fuel injectors within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Firebirdjones Yeah, 14:1 isn't going to fly on pump gas. Even with a healthy cam that would ...

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    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Yeah, 14:1 isn't going to fly on pump gas. Even with a healthy cam that would lower dynamic compression won't be enough.

    The most I've done on pump gas was just over 11:1 static compression with a very healthy solid camshaft and aluminum heads. It actually ran quite well on pump with no issues. Could easily push it higher, maybe another 1/2 point to a point in compression but would give me little gain in power, so the risk vs reward wasn't great. Camshaft also starts pushing the realm of what people consider streetable too.

    I've also built a couple of 10:1 engines with cast iron heads that run on pump gas, but I'll say they were a bit finicky and the tune had to be spot on. These engines have mild camshafts though (one is a stock ram air III camshaft), and would likely work better with something that would bleed off more cylinder pressure. Fine on the street but at the track where I run it hard it requires a mix of race gas to be safe.

    To give you an idea of what some of the high end engine builders do, my father is building a 571 pontiac with Bischoff (BES) that is a pump gas motor, solid roller with duration in the 270 @ .050 range, aluminum heads. Tony is shooting for something between 10.5 to 11:1 compression with this engine and will run strictly pump gas. That seems to be the happy spot for most.

    My current 454 with aluminum heads and 248 @ .050 camshaft is a 10:1 motor and it's strictly pump gas, dyno'd at 640hp and that thing would run on cat pee if I wanted to

    Hope this gives you some ideas.
    Yeah I know. This was the reason for e85. I just need to figure out how much injector to run which is difficult since I have no clue how much power I will be making. From my research people run 60# but I have found some that run 120# but I am unsure and I think that be way too much and would cause issues. If with e85 all it takes is a tune to get the injectors to work then I may go bigger but I would like to figure out the minimum I need and then go from there to have some room to grow.
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    Senior Member kingls1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Why don't you just tune it using regular premium gasoline? Why are you using "race gas"?
    Are you building a track car or street car? My thoughts would be if street car to build it to run on pump gas as that is the most widely available. Running e85 and race fuel on a street car kind of limit's where you can drive it. You can pull up to most any gas station and get 93. I have a buddy with a 68 charger higher compression 440 on race gas and it's a pain in the ass anytime we are heading long distance he is in the passenger seat of someone's car.
    I have a friend who has a supra with a giant turbo and he has a box mounted in the glove box that has 3-4 different tunes in it. 635h.p. On pump gas and 810rwhp on race fuel I guessing that is because of the turbo being able to add or take power? With a compression choice your stuck with what fuel you can run!

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    That and typically on such high compression builds you need a superior cooling system and things like AL heads to dissipate heat better. Maybe even worrying about detonation if you get a little bit of fuel pressure loss or extremely high temps outside. I'm wondering at what point you gain from having higher compression as opposed to pulling timing and losing power.
    It's on jackstands.

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    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    This car is a street/strip car but it is not my daily driver. I only put a max of 1k miles on it a year. I have a few e85 stations in my area which is why I was considering it. Also I have aluminum heads and e85 actually runs the engine cooler, it has a cooling effect. E85 will have no problem with the 14:1 compression. I may still get dished pistons to lower my compression to get it in the 11.5 range but I'd rather not get dished pistons. If I don't do it now (e85) I would like to be able to easily switch over to e85 without changing my pistons so is there a way to lower my compression from 12.5 to 11.5? Since my pistons would be +4cc with 64cc heads and a gasket thickness of .053, this would give me the 12.5:1. What else can I do to lower my compression? Can I do thicker gaskets? With the +4 cc pistons all that I would need to get a 14:1 compression down the road would be thinner head gaskets and mill my heads. However, I can't see how to get my compression down to 11.5 with that only 12.5 but with a -3cc piston I can get it down to 11.5 but 14 seems unachievable with that if I decide to swap to e85 unless I change the pistons or unless I mill the heads down to 50cc, which can that be done? If so maybe I'll do that set up -3cc pistons .053 gasket and 64cc heads now and 50cc heads in the future when I switch to e85.

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    Received word back from Geoff at EPS and at a minimum I would need is 60# for E85 and he can tune for any size he would just need the injector flow tuning data. So I am thinking of getting 95# from Deatschwerkz, which supply that data for all their injectors, so I have room to grow for a bigger cam and other things. So I am back on track with E85.

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    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Good go that route I'm not into e85 at ALL.

    When looking at CR; DCR is the one that you have to keep in check; 8.6-8.8 is the highest to go on pump gas and even then it's going to have a little trouble tipping in.

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    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Good go that route I'm not into e85 at ALL.

    When looking at CR; DCR is the one that you have to keep in check; 8.6-8.8 is the highest to go on pump gas and even then it's going to have a little trouble tipping in.
    That is essentially what Geoff said which swayed me back to e85. He also said my cam is too small so I am getting another one ground if anyone wants mine.

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