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Fuel injectors

This is a discussion on Fuel injectors within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; If Frost said the 26 pounders would be fine then I'd leave it be, he knows what he's doing. If ...

  1. #21
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    If Frost said the 26 pounders would be fine then I'd leave it be, he knows what he's doing.

    If it makes you feel any better I still run the stock 26 lbs. injectors in my wifes car with an LS6 intake and a very mild camshaft. It made 370 rwhp through a 6 speed and 12 bolt. Been together like that for about 6 years without an issue.

  2. #22
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    The 26s will run out with stock pump and lines in an M6 car anywhere from about 385-390rwhp and the 28s on the same about 420-425rwhp. That is, they will touch static at the very top of the pull.

  3. #23
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Guess I should have mentioned I'm now running a racetronix pump which bumped the fuel pressure about 3 psi over the 12 year old stock pump (was getting tired I think.)

    So Frost, it sounds like I'm probably right on the edge then.

  4. #24
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Not to jack the thread but Frost I have a question about my possible need for bigger injectors. I need help figuring out what size injector I need. This is my setup:

    FAST 102 intake
    NW 102 TB
    SD tune
    4" smooth bellows (MAF delete)
    FTP 104 lid
    AI 232 cc heads (milled 57 or 58 cc)
    AI cam 232/238 .605/.605 112+2
    1 3/4 X 3 headers (will upgrade to 1 7/8 or 2" primaries)
    3" catted y - pipe
    SLP LM1
    Lonnies Double pumper fuel system
    396 stroker (3.905 bore X 4.250 stroke X 6.125 rods)
    +4 cc domed pistons
    I will be using e85 so I can have a compression ratio of 14 to 1. So I need injectors that work well with e85.
    Last edited by 98TransAmWs-6; 01-26-2014 at 11:00 AM.
    1998 Trans Am WS6 - Phantom
    421 CI LQ9, Tick Performance Custom Cam, TFS 255cc LS3 heads, Kooks 2" LT headers, Kooks 3" True Duals w/ high flow cats, FTP 104 lid, Speed Density Tune, 4" silicon tube, LS6 VCT, FAST 102 Intake, NW 102 TB, Oil Catch Can, SLP Bilstein Shocks w/ Vogtland Springs, CTS-V 4-piston Calipers w/C6 Z06 rotors, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, R1 concepts premium rotors, Hawk HP+ brake pads, VFN WSQ Hood, C5-R timing chain, SLP oil pump, E85 tune, Walbro 450 fuel pump, Deatschwerkz 95# injectors, Breathless performance headlights, Frost Tune, !HVAC.
    (Coming Soon) BMR DSL, UMI TQ Arm
    421 LQ9 14.8:1 on E85 Build/

  5. #25
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    Not to jack the thread but Frost I have a question about my possible need for bigger injectors. I need help figuring out what size injector I need. This is my setup:

    FAST 102 intake
    NW 102 TB
    SD tune
    4" smooth bellows (MAF delete)
    FTP 104 lid
    AI 232 cc heads (milled 57 or 58 cc)
    AI cam 232/238 .605/.605 112+2
    1 3/4 X 3 headers (will upgrade to 1 7/8 or 2" primaries)
    3" catted y - pipe
    SLP LM1
    Lonnies Double pumper fuel system
    396 stroker (3.905 bore X 4.250 stroke X 6.125 rods)
    +4 cc domed pistons
    I will be using e85 so I can have a compression ratio of 14 to 1. So I need injectors that work well with e85.

    I do absolutely zero e85 tuning (it's just not available here) nor have I any in the past. You have to wonder how long it will even be around without the subsidy.

  6. #26
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Well that changes things then. How much injector would I need for my mods with race gas (105 octane) so I can run at least 14 to 1 compression without pulling timing. Based on your response I can calculate the injector required for e85, unless I just run race gas and for get e85 all together.

    I tried sending you a pm Frost but your box is full.
    Last edited by 98TransAmWs-6; 01-27-2014 at 11:30 PM.

  7. #27
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Mistyped 4.125 stroke not 4.250 lol.

  8. #28
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Why don't you just tune it using regular premium gasoline? Why are you using "race gas"?

  9. #29
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    He probably has a secret stash somewhere... ?

  10. #30
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Why don't you just tune it using regular premium gasoline? Why are you using "race gas"?
    The compression I want won't allow that I think. 14 to 1 is pretty high. If 13 to 1 is sustainable on 93 octane I would do that. It's just with my combo with flat tops I am already at 12.29 with no milling to the heads (64cc) and I'd rather not get huge dished pistons to lower it to 11 to 1. My goal is to run a high compression engine. I would have to get pistons with -9 cc to get it down to 11 to 1.
    Last edited by 98TransAmWs-6; 01-28-2014 at 07:26 PM.

  11. #31
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Are you talking about static compression or dynamic?

  12. #32
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    Uh-oh... here we go!

  13. #33
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Are you talking about static compression or dynamic?
    Static lol. That would be insane for dynamic. I have been trying to figure out the max 93 can sustain on dynamic as well as static.

  14. #34
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    Static lol. That would be insane for dynamic. I have been trying to figure out the max 93 can sustain on dynamic as well as static.
    I've seen stranger things so that's why I asked lol. I always thought dynamic compression was the more important of the two when figuring out what you are.
    It's on jackstands.

  15. #35
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    Static lol. That would be insane for dynamic. I have been trying to figure out the max 93 can sustain on dynamic as well as static.
    I've seen stranger things so that's why I asked lol. I always thought dynamic compression was the more important of the two when figuring out what you are.
    Yeah it is. Mine would be 11.26 dynamic but I don't know what is sustainable on pump gas.

  16. #36
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Do you have 93 in your area readily accessible or just 91?

  17. #37
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Do you have 93 in your area readily accessible or just 91?
    Just 93.

  18. #38
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    I have read in the past that 11.5:1 is about the limit on 93. Guess the guru will give you some solid advice in time.

  19. #39
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I have read in the past that 11.5:1 is about the limit on 93. Guess the guru will give you some solid advice in time.
    I may just get dish pistons to get down to 11.5 to 1 if e85 tuning becomes an issue. I emailed Geoff at EPS about all this I will see what he says.

  20. #40
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Yeah, 14:1 isn't going to fly on pump gas. Even with a healthy cam that would lower dynamic compression won't be enough.

    The most I've done on pump gas was just over 11:1 static compression with a very healthy solid camshaft and aluminum heads. It actually ran quite well on pump with no issues. Could easily push it higher, maybe another 1/2 point to a point in compression but would give me little gain in power, so the risk vs reward wasn't great. Camshaft also starts pushing the realm of what people consider streetable too.

    I've also built a couple of 10:1 engines with cast iron heads that run on pump gas, but I'll say they were a bit finicky and the tune had to be spot on. These engines have mild camshafts though (one is a stock ram air III camshaft), and would likely work better with something that would bleed off more cylinder pressure. Fine on the street but at the track where I run it hard it requires a mix of race gas to be safe.

    To give you an idea of what some of the high end engine builders do, my father is building a 571 pontiac with Bischoff (BES) that is a pump gas motor, solid roller with duration in the 270 @ .050 range, aluminum heads. Tony is shooting for something between 10.5 to 11:1 compression with this engine and will run strictly pump gas. That seems to be the happy spot for most.

    My current 454 with aluminum heads and 248 @ .050 camshaft is a 10:1 motor and it's strictly pump gas, dyno'd at 640hp and that thing would run on cat pee if I wanted to

    Hope this gives you some ideas.

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