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Fram Extended Guard

This is a discussion on Fram Extended Guard within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Also...and I know you already know this....he was talking about motorcycle filters for his Ducati club. Not a generic catch ...

  1. #81
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Also...and I know you already know this....he was talking about motorcycle filters for his Ducati club. Not a generic catch all statement on paper vs. synthetic media filters for automobile but motorcycle filter specific. The statement was the design of motorcycle filters was very limited allowing a minimum filtering media area due the small size and pressure.

    I am slightly amused though....and you know I support you so do not take this as a hit....
    George was a big Mobil1 fan and recommended Mobil1 exclusively. So to have our very own Amsoil guy using George as a source is sorta ironic

  2. #82

    Post Interesting discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    When pressed....George clarified he was saying 40% of the filter was not element...but metal can,silicon ADBV etc. No shit! Not 40% restriction (per a bubble test) of the filtering media....but only 40% of the entire filter was actually filtering media. I got involved in that statement

    With that understood......I agree nano fiber is the way to go. I like the synthetic flitering media for sure. And as we both know Fram XG is not paper anyway so it is a mute point.
    Interesting, I'd like to see that discussion. Can you go back in time and find the link? George repeated his statement more than once, and it's clear he's talking about the filter media and not the various components of the entire filter. Let me see what I can dig up...

  3. #83

    Post Paper, never again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Also...and I know you already know this....he was talking about motorcycle filters for his Ducati club. Not a generic catch all statement on paper vs. synthetic media filters for automobile but motorcycle filter specific. The statement was the design of motorcycle filters was very limited allowing a minimum filtering media area due the small size and pressure.

    I am slightly amused though....and you know I support you so do not take this as a hit....
    George was a big Mobil1 fan and recommended Mobil1 exclusively. So to have our very own Amsoil guy using George as a source is sorta ironic
    No worries, I found George's study of the Amsoil EaO to be most helpful...

    Quote Originally Posted by George Morrison, STLE CLS (Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers - Certified Lubrication Specialist)
    "I can't believe this! Here, Me, Mr. Mobil Oil is pursuing the Amsoil Ae filter and not one, not one single response from the gazillion Amsoil dealer force online here at BITOG!" - 7/20/06

    "I have seen a 30 micron Beta 200 paper element need replacement at 30 days, yet its 6 micron beta 200 microglass element needing replaced at 120 days. The microglass element was filtering to a much tighter tolerance yet lasted 3 times longer. As much as 40% of a paper element may not flow oil at all! A microglass element flows 100%, which is why they flow with so much lower Delta P. (measured flow resistance)" - 1/18/07

    "The comparative particle counts for my 2001 Toyota Sequoia with 159,000 total engine miles, using Mobil 1R0W-30 engine oil are as follows:

    OEM oil filter PC vs. Amsoil EaO57 Oil filter PC
    >4 Microns = 1,817 particles, 128 particles
    >6 microns = 990 particles, 70 particles
    >14 microns = 168 particles, 12 particles
    >25 microns = 34 particles, 2 particles
    >50 microns = 3 particles, 0 particles
    >100 microns = 0 particles, 0 particles

    Both samples had 1,550 miles on each filter. The OEM sample was new oil, Amsoil sample with 1,500 miles on the Mobil 1 engine oil.
    The ISO cleanliness is reduced from 18/17/15 to 14/13/11 with the Amsoil EaO oil filter. I would have been very happy with 1 or 2 number reductions.. A 93% reduction in particulates is, well, as in going from no filtration to having a filter.... This level of cleanliness *will* provide meaningful, long term wear reduction and attendant increase in component life, from my experience.
    My used engine oil is cleaner than the oil which came out of the quart bottle..
    George Morrison, STLE CLS
    (NOT an Amsoil dealer, never have been: may become one with results like this, however)" 2/28/07

    "Regarding "seems too good to be true". Welcome to the world of microglass/synthetic filtration medium. I upgrade industrial applications every day from cellulose to microglass: go from a 30 micron paper element filter to a 6 micron microglass. Vastly improved filtration, in the 90% reduction level, as in the EaO, AND the filter generally lasts 2 to 4 times longer than the cellulose filter it was replacing. How? Generally up to 40% of a cellulose filter element passes nothing, absolutely blocked.. Whereas the microglass or nanofiber (whatever) is 100% flowable filter. So, yes, filtering much finer, flowing much easier and lasting considerably longer, even though it is capturing 90% more particulates... Indeed, it is true......
    George Morrison, STLE CLS" - 3/1/07

    "Well, Gary, I have now become an Amsoil EaO filter Gnostic! I "know" that the EaO is simply the best automotive (wish they made one for my Ducati!) oil filter currently available... :-)
    George Morrison, STLE CLS 3/1/07"
    And like you said, at the time, George operated one of the largest Mobil distributors in the nation. He had no financial gain from the testimony of his real world experience with an EaO.

    This is why a paper oil filter will NEVER be on one of my cars again, unless I'm doing an engine flush that is.

    CompSyn

  4. #84
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    He got drug into my Harley forum after he posted that on his Ducati Motorcycle forum. That is when he made the 40% applies to the construction/design statement. IIRC he was talking about the design required to hold paper versus less structure required to hole the synthetic media. I'll look in the archives. He never provided any acceptable testing methods to back up his claim of the 40% paper filter issue. He also vehemently denied having any affiliation with Mobil1.

    With all that said ....I will not defend nor attack any of Georges statements as I find them irrelevant. Meaning....I agree synthetic media is superior from a flow filtration aspect compared to paper.

  5. #85
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    Wirth George aside for a moment. We are having a raging agreement
    Recently I was asked to "rank" oil and oil filters here....
    Fram Extended Guard

  6. #86
    Junior Member mrc54's Avatar
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    Sarge, why do you rate the Hastings oil filter so high?

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    Experiance and multiple application UOA's.

  8. #88

    Post AV Lubricants

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    He got drug into my Harley forum after he posted that on his Ducati Motorcycle forum. That is when he made the 40% applies to the construction/design statement. IIRC he was talking about the design required to hold paper versus less structure required to hole the synthetic media. I'll look in the archives. He never provided any acceptable testing methods to back up his claim of the 40% paper filter issue. He also vehemently denied having any affiliation with Mobil1.

    With all that said ....I will not defend nor attack any of Georges statements as I find them irrelevant. Meaning....I agree synthetic media is superior from a flow filtration aspect compared to paper.
    George Morrison WAS founder and CEO of AV Lubricants - link

    George Morrison WAS a Certified Lubrication Specialist (Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers) - link

    With his ExxonMobil distributorship he worked with coal mining and aviation industries in which hundreds of UOAs passed through his hands a week.

    He based many of his claims based on real world UOAs and accompanying ISO particle count.

    Well since he died in 2008, we cannot ask him where he got his statement that paper oil filter media is 40% blocked. But since the man was a Tribologist, it should be rooted in science and therefore repeatable.

    Quote Originally Posted by PetroLiance
    (COLUMBUS, Ohio) -- PetroLiance LLC, which was formed last year through the consolidation of four of the nation's largest ExxonMobil distributors, has completed its first acquisition. The company today announced it has purchased the assets of Columbus-based AV Lubricants Inc., effective Sept. 1, 2007.

    A leading provider of lubricants to the aviation industry and to mining operations in Ohio, Kentucky and neighboring states, AV Lubricants is one of the most successful companies in its field. That's why it was instrumental to PetroLiance LLC to acquire this innovative and rapidly growing company. The acquisition has expanded the PetroLiance® family.

    The acquisition will benefit the customers and employees of both PetroLiance® and AV Lubricants, says PetroLiance CEO Kevin McCarter. "AV Lubricants is a strong, well-run company that is widely recognized for its excellent service and technical support," McCarter said. "Their expertise in several key specialized off-road lubricants markets will greatly benefit the PetroLiance® organization."

    "We are delighted and enthusiastic to become part of the PetroLiance® team," adds George Morrison, AV Lubricants' founder and CEO. "PetroLiance's significant resources will benefit our customers and employees, while we will be able to contribute valuable technical expertise and other strengths to the organization. It truly is a synergistic combination."

    Morrison will assume a leadership role in PetroLiance's sales and technical service. A published author with expertise in fuel, filtration and additives, he is recognized as a Certified Lubrication Specialist by the Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers. AV Lubricants has also pioneered a number of marketing innovations including advances in the use of online ordering and support.

    "George Morrison's personal expertise, and the strength of the entire AV Lubricants organization, made this an ideal company for our first acquisition," notes McCarter. "We are enthusiastic about the opportunity to support those strengths by applying the significant resources of the PetroLiance® organization."

    PetroLiance® has major facilities in Columbus, Ohio the headquarters of AV Lubricants. It was an additional value-added benefit that further enhanced the synergy of the acquisition. "To complete our first acquisition so smoothly and successfully is very encouraging," McCarter adds, "It establishes a very positive model for future transactions." - http://www.petroliance.com/newsarticle4.php
    CompSyn

  9. #89
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    l25288/pl25288 in purolator is the long filter aka the trailblazer/northstar filter. 3675 should be the fram number, i guess xg3675 but i dont think it has quite the length that the other brands of filters have

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    xg3429 should work as well (if you can find it) due to the threads being the same, and slightly longer. no anti drainback though. i just assume it would work since its what is called for my olds with a 307 that takes a purolator 25288 along with my aurora. have used them but was never really concerned about the anti drainback on those two rides. sorry for beating a dead horse i just thought id throw my hat into the ring

  11. #91
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    Is there any way to know if the other brands of the longer style filter, such as Wix/Napa Gold, are equipped with anti-drainback valves?

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by CompSyn View Post
    George Morrison WAS founder and CEO of AV Lubricants - link

    George Morrison WAS a Certified Lubrication Specialist (Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers) - link

    With his ExxonMobil distributorship he worked with coal mining and aviation industries in which hundreds of UOAs passed through his hands a week.

    He based many of his claims based on real world UOAs and accompanying ISO particle count.

    Well since he died in 2008, we cannot ask him where he got his statement that paper oil filter media is 40% blocked. But since the man was a Tribologist, it should be rooted in science and therefore repeatable.



    CompSyn
    LOL.....You got your e-teeth in this one don't you pal?
    OK...dont use paper filters....I dont....

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Is there any way to know if the other brands of the longer style filter, such as Wix/Napa Gold, are equipped with anti-drainback valves?
    You have to look up their product spec sheets on the manufactuers web site.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    You have to look up their product spec sheets on the manufactuers web site.

    Thanks! Will probably convert to the Fram for the next change, but just wanted to check.

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    Junior Member som ss 2001's Avatar
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    Can one find these hastings oil filters at your local auto parts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by som ss 2001 View Post
    Can one find these hastings oil filters at your local auto parts?
    My Western Auto has them.

  17. #97
    Junior Member som ss 2001's Avatar
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    I'm not 100% sure, but western auto is no longer out here in Houston. I called the chinamart like you said and they have plenty of Fram XG in stock. He said 3 dollars and some change. I called some of the other big name auto parts and they had no clue about the Fram XG, only the extra guard.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by som ss 2001 View Post
    I'm not 100% sure, but western auto is no longer out here in Houston. I called the chinamart like you said and they have plenty of Fram XG in stock. He said 3 dollars and some change. I called some of the other big name auto parts and they had no clue about the Fram XG, only the extra guard.
    The guy at WM that told you the Fram XG is $3 is full of shit and dates fat chicks. Lives at home with his Mom and drives a 89 Honda.
    The Fram XG is $9.

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  20. #100
    Junior Member som ss 2001's Avatar
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    You sir are correct! I went to go pick one up and the price he gave me was for the extra guard. Extended Guard is 8.97.

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