engine build

**joewarner** · 04-25-2009, 10:09 PM

ok so i am going to buy a 98-2002 z28-ss-ws6 one of those 3. My problems are i cant find any pricing or what i need to build a 600+ hp engine. I have 30k to spend on the car and upgrades. I want it to be built correctly so there is no worries on breaking. Also i know i need a new rear end prefferably a 9 inch because i want the M6 not the A4. What about the tranny tho should i get the gears built up also if thats possible?

Lots of questions i know but im a newb on ls1 sites (first post) and dont know too much about ls1 engines at all really.

any help on pricing or parts i will need to build it and what supporting mods i would need would be appreciated.

sorry if im in the wrong section or if i am incorrect at all.

also how much does a 9 inch cost and do i buy it new or used?

**joewarner** · 04-26-2009, 10:25 PM

anyone? is there a different website of forums i should go to and ask this?

**suede** · 04-27-2009, 12:21 AM

year is not going to matter, b/c your going to be replacing most stuff.... i vote ws6 based off looks, and your looking at

full bolt on, heads, cam, and either a turbo setup, supercharger, or nitrous....

**jambofla** · 04-27-2009, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by joewarner

anyone? is there a different website of forums i should go to and ask this?

You can search for topics and find lots of info.
How much will you spend on the base car.
Nitrous, blower,turbo or just raw motor?
Daily driver or track car?

**67rsss** · 04-27-2009, 10:20 AM

With the budget you have, you could just upgrade the entire engine to a pre-built package from a builder like MAST or Schwanke...

**suede** · 04-27-2009, 11:01 AM

It's going to be hard to push 600 all N/A

**joewarner** · 04-27-2009, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by jambofla

You can search for topics and find lots of info.
How much will you spend on the base car.
Nitrous, blower,turbo or just raw motor?
Daily driver or track car?

I definately want it to be able to be a daily driver.

Nitrous is outta the question i think.

Which of the supercharger/turbo is more reliable and better for it?

procharger or blower? single turbo or twin?

anyway i can get the 600 without nitrous is the way i will go. I dont wanna go N/A and have it too radical for street driving. I was thinking somewhere along 9:1 compression with either a turbo or supercharger.

and how much i am gonna spend on the base is 10k max. but that will be with a loan. I wanna try and pick one up with alot of miles for cheap since i am going to be building the engine.

I tried searching for the past few days cant find shit on the web about it except books i can buy.

How much would it cost to build a reliable 600hp engine that will last atleast 50k miles(is that too much hp to last that long?)

how much am i gonna need to spend on rear end and suspension?(is parts for this pretty common?)

and what about the M6 tranny? will it be able to hold 600hp stock? or should i upgrade it if possible and how much does that cost?

tons of questions if you can answer any i will be really happy.

JOe

**67rsss** · 04-27-2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by joewarner

I tried searching for the past few days cant find shit on the web about it except books i can buy.

A couple of them are a good idea to have on the shelf. Arm yourself with the basics.

Originally Posted by joewarner

How much would it cost to build a reliable 600hp engine that will last atleast 50k miles(is that too much hp to last that long?)

Not sure that 600hp, reliable, and 50k miles belong together. I would think big displacement since you want to stay NA if possible. I would definately be thinking forged. You just looking for a peak number, or good power all around? Honestly if you are starting from scratch, and don't know the LS series you will be better off at least ordering the short block from someone, if not a complete engine. For example, the Mast Motorsports LS3 based 427SS is 600hp for $13K. Hard to beat that.

Originally Posted by joewarner

how much am i gonna need to spend on rear end and suspension?(is parts for this pretty common?)

NEED to spend? No idea. Most a few thousands of bucks. I would honestly look at upgrading the torque arm, rear, LCA/PH, adding SF connectors, and shocks. What is it you want the car to do???? You looking for autocross, 1/4 mile, daily streetablility? I would recomend you look at a 9 inch, S60 or 12 bolt, in that order.

Originally Posted by joewarner

and what about the M6 tranny? will it be able to hold 600hp stock? or should i upgrade it if possible and how much does that cost?

Not a chance, barely handles 400hp. You will need to upgrade. This will be a few grand, but the torque you will build demands it.

**joewarner** · 04-27-2009, 06:19 PM

I think i confused you about the motor. I dont care if i go turbo/supercharger or stay N/A whichever is more streetable at 600hp. DD is mainly what i care about. So i figure being turbo or supercharger will make it more streetable since you dont have to be in boost 24/7. But i also want it reliable. Oh and i want to stay with the ls1 block if possible. is there something wrong with the stock block? do you have to pick up an aftermarket block?

do you upgrade the M6 tranny with new gears and stuff inside or do you just buy a brand new aftermarket one?

And autocross not so much but drag every couple weeks probably and mainly street car.

**67rsss** · 04-27-2009, 07:01 PM

Not a problem so much with the LS1 block, but for what you will invest building a forced injection engine, you can easily up the displacement and still run a pretty mild cam and hit your goal. Not sure that a turbo or S/C engine would qualify as more streetable or not. The 24/7 boost comment doesn't make sense to me, no engine runs all out all the time. If you are honestly looking to build a 600hp engine in the LS1 block, I would 1) skip the 98, 2) stroke it with a forged bottom end, 3) bump the compression and really look at some nice heads. Fast setup a given, and you are looking at a serious cam. That will get you where you want to be. You will want to shop around for opinions on the cam, but you could probably buy the solution ready to go cheaper.

If possible, buy an 01/02 car.

Trans can be built much stronger, call someone like Rockland Gear. The gal that built ours went under, but there are a lot of people out there that can build up the T56. Clutch setup will be an issue for you as well, and there are a lot of opinions out there.

As for suspension setup, work on the rear suspension, get SF connectors in. Companies like BMR and Edelbrock have complete solutions, and while I cannot endorse any company over another on the 4th gen, I think a comprehensive approach from one vendor will save you a lot of frustration. Overall, the cars handle well on the street in stock form.

We are hoping this weekend to see over 400hp at the wheels on our LS1, and that is with a pretty mild cam (226/228) and 59cc ported 243's. This would be close to 500hp on the stock bottom end, perfectly streetable. That next 100hp is just more than we are willing to pay for though.

**joewarner** · 04-27-2009, 07:11 PM

i want 600hp to the wheels where how is that cheaper tho? i see them going for like 14k. Is that really what im looking at paying?

**67rsss** · 04-27-2009, 07:20 PM

600 RWHP? You are seriously looking at a bit of coin. Particularly with the reliability statement. You are looking at 690 to 720hp at the crank. Trans, D/S and rear will cost you a bit. Not a hard platform to get the power, but it isn't free at that point. You may want to look at an iron block and twin turbo setup. That will get you there, but you are not going to reliably take a stock LS1 to 700hp for a few thousand bucks. I would definately ask around, and check with a few builders to see what they recomend.

**joewarner** · 04-27-2009, 07:29 PM

well i have 30k to spend on car and engine. In your opinion how much can i get if i spend 10k on the car and have 20k to mod the engine,tranny and rear/suspension.

what kinda figures are reasonable with hp?

**tpilews** · 04-27-2009, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by 67rsss

Not a chance, barely handles 400hp. You will need to upgrade. This will be a few grand, but the torque you will build demands it.

The T-56 is a stout piece of equipment. The only thing I'd recommend upgrading/replacing in the tranny are new synchros and shift fork. Other than that the t-56 is solid. I don't know what it's supposed to handle, but I'd say well over 600 HP.

**67rsss** · 04-28-2009, 06:37 AM

Not everyone will agree with that statement. Input shafts do fail. Shift forks are a problem as well. Some people get lucky, others find failure even at 350hp.

**tpilews** · 04-28-2009, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by 67rsss

Not everyone will agree with that statement. Input shafts do fail. Shift forks are a problem as well. Some people get lucky, others find failure even at 350hp.

Taken from Tremec's site:

"Currently, the TREMEC T-56 is being used on the Dodge Viper, Chevy Corvette Z06, Ford SVT Mustang Cobra, Aston Martin DB7 Vantage and V12 Vanquish, and Holden Commodore and Monaro."

They do have quite a few different versions. Only a small amount of them are rated for 350 lb ft. of torque. Most are rated for low to mid 400's. They have one rated a 550 lb ft. Not sure which was was in the 4th gens though.

**Dr.Crash** · 04-28-2009, 08:16 AM

i would say go with a low compression stroker and they put a twin turbo kit on it. Trying to get all of that power out of an LS1 will make it unreliable. And i see no reason why it wouldnt last 100k miles if you take care of it. however, there will be some normal servicing required. like valve springs evey so often (depending on cam size). 20k is plenty of money to get your engine combo together, but like stated above you are going to need some supporting mods for that much power. you might be able to get away with the 20k for everything, but thats gunna be cutting it close. Are you going to be doing the labor? if not thats gunna take a huge chunk of that money.

**NoscamaroSS** · 04-28-2009, 08:46 AM

I agree w/ crash, except you will most likely exceed your 600 rwhp goals, but thats not such a bad thing now is it!

**67rsss** · 04-28-2009, 09:28 AM

T56 in a Viper is a diferent input shaft than an F-Body. I would pack it up, send it to a shop and have it built to handle the torque you are planning to build. You can build them very strong, just takes a little money. Look at a big name supplier, and really talk with them about what you want to build. There are T56's built to handle over 1200hp. Same issue with the rear end. I would look at the 9 inch or an S60. The stock rear would grenade in no time. I do agree that for build cost, he is going to be better off looking at forced induction to hit his goal. There are cars exceeding 600rwhp all over the place, but how many are for a total investment of <$30k, perfect daily driver manners, and a life expectancy of 50k miles? I am sure there are some out there, it is the cost of the car itself that will limit what he can do.

Oh, and I think cost wise, it would still make good sense to drop the aluminum block out and grab a 6.0L block. The extra displacement will help, and the iron block handle boost very well. Would be a great toy!

**Frost** · 04-28-2009, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by joewarner

well i have 30k to spend on car and engine. In your opinion how much can i get if i spend 10k on the car and have 20k to mod the engine,tranny and rear/suspension.

what kinda figures are reasonable with hp?

For less than what you have you can buy my built turbo charged TA that is turn-key complete. It already has 40-50K into it on top of the car... and it is a street, not a race car. It made 600 to the tire on low boost and should make middle 700s on pump gas on the second setting (15-16psi) but hasn't been back on the rollers. I can tell you that I can blow 650rwhp cars away on the highway

Save yourself the research and headache and get mine

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107567