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Emissions problems, Help Please!!

This is a discussion on Emissions problems, Help Please!! within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Ok so here is the deal i have a 98 Camaro z28. When i got the car the previous owner ...

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    Cool Emissions problems, Help Please!!

    Ok so here is the deal i have a 98 Camaro z28. When i got the car the previous owner had had the exhaust changed out and in the process eliminated the rear o2 sensors with dummies and eliminated the egr valve and put on after market manifolds that do not have a place for the egr valve to hook up to. On top of this he upgraded the Maf with an aftermarket 85mm instead of the 75mm. So now the computer is running the fuel mixture all wrong because he never had the new Maf programmed into the computer. So I am not able to pass emissions at all until get the Nox and HC readings way down along with either reprogramming the computer for the MAF or getting a stock Maf and a new EGR valve. Any help with this would be awesome because i don't know anything about the cars computer and emissions and all that stuff and don't have the money to just take it into a shop and have them do it all.

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    Wow such a mess !! did your car pass the visual test ?? Having the EGR removed ?? what does it say on your fail sheet about why it failed ??? If it did not pass visual then you will have to put the EGR back on--The MAF can be re-callibrated to work--However that will be expensive as it will require a ful tune--BUT you may need one anyway if you are getting trouble codes on the rear O2 simulators---It youare not getting the rear o2 trouble codes--it would be cheaper to get a used MAF at an auto wrecker(75mm) and install it or a new one.-------If you have to install the EGR because of the failed visual--and you say the new intake manifold does not have provisions for it-You'll have to get an older ls1 manifold off a camaro that has the EGR provision.They really aren't that expensive---I've seen the manifold and EGR on Ebay all for $100---
    In Calif we have a MAX that can be spent on emmisions repairs and if you go over it you will get a waiver and not have to do anything---You get an apointment with the smog referee and bring in the estimate (make it a high one) and you should be able to get a waiver---I don't know about the laws in your state but i would certainly check at the DMV 1st----A 98 is almost 10 years old ---the Max I think is about $750 and you would surely be over that

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    Well it did pass visual inspection but ran way high on nox and hc. so you think it would be best to tune it or get the stock maf and how much does the egr affect emissions? And that is actually what I was trying to do was get the waiver but when they inspected for the waiver they found the egr valve was missing and therefore in order to get the waiver I must put in a egr valve which means different manifolds and so on.... But if I can fix the hc and nox levels and take it back in to the testing facility than I can pass emissions, and I don't think they will catch the egr valve missing cuz they haven' the past six times. Do you think I might have better luck just getting a tuner and adjust a/f mixture and the maf readings manually?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak1407 View Post
    Well it did pass visual inspection but ran way high on nox and hc. so you think it would be best to tune it or get the stock maf and how much does the egr affect emissions? And that is actually what I was trying to do was get the waiver but when they inspected for the waiver they found the egr valve was missing and therefore in order to get the waiver I must put in a egr valve which means different manifolds and so on.... But if I can fix the hc and nox levels and take it back in to the testing facility than I can pass emissions, and I don't think they will catch the egr valve missing cuz they haven' the past six times. Do you think I might have better luck just getting a tuner and adjust a/f mixture and the maf readings manually?
    Well that is good news then that you passed the visual---and that you can sneak by without the EGR--
    The EGR usually doesn't do a lot in cleaning up the NOX and HC---If you are NOT getting a check engine light with the 85 MM MAF then it isn't that far off---The computer will make some adjustments on its own to try and corrct the AFR to 14.63..IF it goes past -25% or +25% it will throw a code. If you are not getting a codethen it is not that far off---But adjusting it would help some---My opinion as the best fix would be to replace the Catalytic converter
    Get it nice and hot and take it to the smog shop---A new converter installed is only about $89 over here---When new they clean up everything !!!! With both NOX and HC way off----It's realy looking like just an old cat---9 years old ??? yeah I'll bet that a new cat will solve all !!!

    If you are having codes from the MAF then get it callibrated but don't get a full tune---not needed--I only charge $50 per item to do indivudual tables--someone over there can too I'm sure---If no codes---do the converter--
    make sure the plugs are fairly new and there are NO mis-fires

    Forgot to ask you if it was running OK or if you were getting surging and stalling or it dies or it puffs black smoke and runns crappy?????---If so adjust the MAF or put the right 75MM back on
    Last edited by tblu92; 05-01-2007 at 11:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tblu92 View Post
    The EGR usually doesn't do a lot in cleaning up the NOX
    I'm sorry but as a smog tech I have to raise the on that one.
    Performance oriented vehicles such as the ls1 and lt1 have higher compression ratios than the average passenger car, thus producing more NOx.
    While newer versions of the LS1 don't have egr's they do have the LS6 intake manifold and smaller cam to make up for it. My .02

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    Well the car is running fine and if you asked me I don't think it could run smoother. The car also has brand new high performance catalytic converters on it and when I took it into get the inspection they said they were doing fine but that the computer was not knowing that there was more air coming in from the upgraded Maf and that that was what was throwing on off my A/f mixture. Like I said I'm at a loss.

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    Try disconnecting the battery and let it sit before hooking it back up, maybe the computer can then start out fresh and re-learn a better tune. These things are touchy if anything was done without the battery disconnected. Also verify the plugs, wires, and filters are top notch and run some cleaner thru the fuel system.

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    Well I'll try disconnecting the battery again I have done that but will try it for laughs anyways. And the car does have nearly brand new plugs, wires, filters and have changed all fluids in it too. Any other ideas?

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    I'm sorry I was no help in my earlier reply, but sometimes comments like that get to me.

    1.You NEED to get your MAF tuned correctly. If it isn't already OR get a good stocker for the test.
    2.I'm sorry, but if your failing on NOx then you will need your EGR system working, unless you get water injection which is legal here in CA by the way. Not too many people know that. Realistically though NOx are tough to bring down without an egr(on vehicles designed with it from the factory), short of lowering compression or retarding timing which may INCREASE HC's (raw fuel).
    3.High flow cats as spiffy as they are flow more because they have less catalyst material as compared to factory cats. Which is probably why the previous owner went with O2 sims. The hi-flo's couldn't trick the PCM and probably can't trick the tailpipe emissions analyzer. My .02

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    Outside of getting it tuned properly...I would dump a bottle of Techron Cleaner in it. Run a tankful....pour another bottle in it and go pass emissions.

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    Ok I think the first step I will do is either get my Maf tuned or get a stock Maf, which by the way I am having a hard time finding one that is not aftermarket any good ideas out there, same goes for the egr valve? I will also try some techron as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LS1_TA_2002 View Post
    I'm sorry but as a smog tech I have to raise the on that one.
    Performance oriented vehicles such as the ls1 and lt1 have higher compression ratios than the average passenger car, thus producing more NOx.
    While newer versions of the LS1 don't have egr's they do have the LS6 intake manifold and smaller cam to make up for it. My .02
    ALL vesrsions of C5 ls1's have NO EGR, all the way back to 1997--not just newer ones--- Apparently you are confused -That is why GM chose not to use them because they were not needed and did little to clean up NOX---I have no idea what you are trying to say--But I have disabled EGR's on many 4.8 & 5.3 & 6.0 stock type trucks with little affect on NOX and passing smog--in a county that uses rollers--As a smog tech you are surely biased in your opinion--I am not going to argue with your opinion as you are certainly entitled to it--But it is just that your opinion---I have spent many hours on a data logger monitoring tables and know exactly what happens when an EGR is disabled on an LSX type engine--and my opinion based on logged data is little or nothing changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tblu92 View Post
    ALL vesrsions of C5 ls1's have NO EGR, all the way back to 1997--not just newer ones--- Apparently you are confused -That is why GM chose not to use them because they were not needed and did little to clean up NOX---I have no idea what you are trying to say--But I have disabled EGR's on many 4.8 & 5.3 & 6.0 stock type trucks with little affect on NOX and passing smog--in a county that uses rollers--As a smog tech you are surely biased in your opinion--I am not going to argue with your opinion as you are certainly entitled to it--But it is just that your opinion---I have spent many hours on a data logger monitoring tables and know exactly what happens when an EGR is disabled on an LSX type engine--and my opinion based on logged data is little or nothing changes.
    First of all we're not talking about a C5. GM is not going to put an emissions device that may hurt horsepower on their flagship performance model if they don't need to. When comparing a Corvette's and F-Body's MAX allowable tailpipe readings one will note that the Corvette's is higher. Why? In order to meet CAFE standards they would rather hurt F-body performance (if ever so slightly) and create cars like the AVEO than to hinder the Vette's output. Secondly, 4.8L, 5.3L, and 6.0L engines are not performance engines like the LS1 or LT1, so yes on those engines NOx is not as big a factor (carefully read my post). Lastly, data logging engine performance and enabling or disabling emissions devices for performance purposes is not an indicator of tailpipe emissions. That is what an emissions analyzer is designed for.

    This fella came to us for advice on passing his state's emission test. I perform these loaded (Dyno) tests on a daily basis and can vouch for the EGR's effectiveness at lowering NOx first hand. He posted that he failed HIGH on NOx and HC's. In the end it is up to him what advice he takes. I was just reporting that assumptions like yours (based on your reply) are better left at home.

    P.S. If I was so biased towards good emissions I would have bought a Honda. My.02
    Last edited by LS1_TA_2002; 05-03-2007 at 01:23 AM.

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    Still have no idea what you are trying to say--lt1 something something---yeah yeah--don't get personal buddy--we are all trying to help--but YOU made it personal by critisizing me rather than offering your advice or opinion--I know your type--(my turn to get personal--see how you like it)-Typical loser smog guy working for a state controlled industry because you couldn't cut it in the private sector without government aid--If it ever goes sour you could always get a job at the county mowing lawns---My opinion--you are so full of crap-with your jumbled -up responses that say a whole lot of nothing--all you get enjoyment out of is critisizing others-with you limitied knowledge of the automotive industry--You even critisized this poor man that is at his wits end looking for help by telling him basically he was stupid for installing hi-flow cats----You really need some communiction skills--I will send you a quarter via Pay-Pal--Go buy yourself a personality-----------Don't rspond to me anymore --and don't bother me anymore

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    I'm sorry, but I can't let these idiotic remarks go without a rebuttal.

    Quote Originally Posted by tblu92 View Post
    Still have no idea what you are trying to say--lt1 something something---yeah yeah
    I'm sorry for not being able to put it into 'Neandrethal' for you. Study some or get SOME training like I have.
    Quote Originally Posted by tblu92 View Post
    (my turn to get personal--see how you like it)-Typical loser smog guy working for a state controlled industry because you couldn't cut it in the private sector without government aid--If it ever goes sour you could always get a job at the county mowing lawns
    Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know that factory trained Mercedes techs were in such dire need of Gov't resources. I'm sure the few smogs I perform (not including my other repairs or diagnoses) at work could rival both of your paychecks from Wal-Mart and Mickie-D's combined.
    Quote Originally Posted by tblu92 View Post
    My opinion--you are so full of crap-with your jumbled -up responses that say a whole lot of nothing--all you get enjoyment out of is critisizing others-with your limitied knowledge of the automotive industry--
    If you had bothered to read all of the posts instead of the one's that affected YOU, you 'might' (highly doubtful) have learned something.
    Quote Originally Posted by tblu92 View Post
    You even critisized this poor man that is at his wits end looking for help by telling him basically he was stupid for installing hi-flow cats
    There you go with assumptions again. Nowhere in any of his posts does he state that HE installed those converter's. I was just stating a FACT based on EXPERIENCE.
    Quote Originally Posted by tblu92 View Post
    You really need some communiction skills--I will send you a quarter via Pay-Pal--Go buy yourself a personality-----------Don't respond to me anymore --and don't bother me anymore
    Keep your quarter as I'm sure you need it more than I do.

    P.S. Get a life already

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