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This is a discussion on eeek! within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; ok, i think my fuel pump has gone out, pulled the line off the new fuel filter and had someone ...

  1. #1
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    Question eeek!

    ok, i think my fuel pump has gone out, pulled the line off the new fuel filter and had someone turn it, no fuel at all came out, held ear to the gas cap hole while someone turned it, nothing. it worked yesterday but i've been meaning to get gas in it lately and been spacing it (just got done moving ><) and today it wouldnt start (no gas, go fig >.>). got gas in it and that when this started happening.

    is there a reset switch for it?
    anyone got any quick fix ideas?
    and if i have to replace it, a. where should i go to buy the part. b. how hard is it. and C i saw some pictures on another site where a guy was able to cut to his tank and fuel pump without having to drop the tank. it said it worked on 4th gen Fbodies. just to double check a 98 Z28 is a 4th gen right? i hope so >.>

    ohh, and i havent had much time to search this sight, but if anyone's wandering about the new camaro's

    Z28:LS6
    SS:LS6 supercharged

    didnt know if anyone had posted it yet

    any help is welcome!

    ~the stupid person who likes to ride E and do stupid stuff

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    What city are you in? If you're in Jax I know a shop that's done 2 trap door pump replacements - probably the one you saw pics of on the other site. Beware, the location of the pump on the '98 tank is a little different than the '99 and up when looking around the net. Before condeming the pump I'd exhaust all other possibilities first (fuses/relays/pressure test/etc.). Hope this helps...and welcome to the board.

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    Senior Member slims00ls1z28's Avatar
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    Whack the bottom of the tank with a rubber mallet. That believe it or not is a common shop method to test GM fuel pumps. If it turns back on you know the pump is bad if not check fuses and stuff first.

    The LS6 is no longer a production GM motor hasn't been in a while. The only part of the engine still used are the heads and they are used on lesser motors like the LS4 (FWD V8 application). The LS2 series (LS2/LS7) replaced it and the LS3/LS9 will replace them in the performance applications. Also its looking more likely the the SS will be behind the Z28. I'm probably the resident 5th gen nut.

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    Senior Member 02z28ls1's Avatar
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    Whacking the bottom of the fuel tank can temporarily make ANY make of electric fuel start working again. It's worth a shot if it isn't running. Don't ever run a electric fuel pump out of fuel-it's murder on them. The 98 is a 4th gen LS1.

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    I would also hook a voltmeter up back there and make sure you're getting voltage to the pump. The connector is on the drivers side rear firewall just above the rear axle. I can dig up what wire colors to probe if you don't have a manual.

    Actually I already had it on my webspace. Here's pic showing grey as your hot wire back there and black as the ground. Sorry for the big ass pic.

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    alright, thanks guys!

    ohh, and im down near daytona, few hours away from jax

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    Drivin It Like I Stole It JWSmythe's Avatar
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    Replacing the fuel pump - the easy way

    I'll testify that it's a *LOT* easier to make a hole in the trunk, than it is to drop the tank.

    When the fuel pump went out in my '98 T/A, I had a friend come over, and we spent 3 days on my garage floor disconnecting everything. Literally. The exhaust comes off from under the front passenger seat. The rear suspension had to be disconnected, despite what the books say. When you finally get to the tank, it's still a bastard to get loose. I think we spent the better part of 3 hours maneuvering the tank out and back in.

    I replaced the pump with a high flow aftermarket. It came with one hose clamp, and no instructions. I put the hose clamp where I thought it should go. While it was up in the air, no suspension, no exhaust, I started it to make sure it would run. Turns out that it'll start, but the pressure will blow the hose off inside the gas tank after a couple seconds.

    So, I spent the next day convincing myself that it's ok to cut on my car. I looked around online, and found a few good pictures.

    Really, it's not very hard, and you don't even need pictures. Just do this:

    1) Inside the hatch, pull out both plastic side panels. (like, where your speakers are). If you don't LOVE your paint, stick 'em to the side of your car with the speaker magnets. If you're gentle, it probably won't scratch.

    2) Lay down your back seat, and flop the carpet and pad all the way from the trunk well to the back seat, so you can see the entire rear deck, plus about 6" down where the back seat normally is.

    3) Take a power drill with a large drill bit. Use a 2x4 blocks, so you can only possibly drill about 1/8" in. You don't want to pierce the tank, only the floor of the car.

    The fuel pump is in the dead center of the rear deck. There are 4 fuel lines that go forward from there (ok, fuel, return, vent, vent).

    Drill a pilot hole (like, a hole). You'll want to be on the center line of the car, about 3/4 back on the deck.

    4) Using some tin snips (aka sheet metal cutters), cut a larger access hole to see what you're doing. If you encounter ANYTHING but sheet metal or air, you're doing something wrong. There's nothing back there but the floor of the car and gas tank, so you'll be fine.

    Note: BE VERY CAREFUL! You'll be making lots of sharp edges, which you will cut yourself on if you aren't paying attention! Trim off an burrs as you go, and leave yourself a little extra space to work!!!

    5) Once you have a decent size hole to look through, take a look in with a flashlight. (Don't use a lighter).

    6) Now, you'll be cutting a larger access panel. Cut it about 10" wide (side to side on your car), and 12" forward. Don't worry if you make it too small, you can trim it out as needed.

    7) Eventually, you'll have a good access to your fuel pump. It has 4 or 5 nuts that hold it to the top of the fuel tank. Follow the instructions (hopefully you got some). Some pumps fit real funny. Mark the hoses for your own sanity. Otherwise, you will figure it out, they kinda only fit one way (two different sizes, two different lengths, only one combination to put 'em all on)

    8) Don't make my mistake. Use a hose clamp on BOTH ends of the fuel line going from the pump to the top of the pump assembly!!!

    9) Reassemble, and test start your vehicle.

    10) You now have an operational vehicle. Time to put things back together.

    11) Get some sheet metal from Home Depot. The store I got mine at had it with the lumber and large metal construction stuff (roof flashing, vents, etc). You'll be cutting this sheet to size when you get it home. You'll also want lots of sheet metal screws that are just long enough to hold the metal together, while not piercing the gas tank.

    12) Paint the edge you cut. I used rustoleum. They had a shade of green pretty close to the green of my '98 T/A. No one is ever going to see it, so it really doesn't matter. Use plenty of newspaper and masking tape, so you don't paint the inside of your car.

    13) screw the panel on with LOTS of screws. This is a unibody car, so the body IS the structure. I don't think this is all that structural, since there is some frame in the rear, but still, secure it well.

    14) I painted my panel when I put it back together, so it would look nice for the next guy who changes the fuel pump. That's up to you.

    15) Wait for the paint to dry. At very least, let it sit overnight. Otherwise your carpet padding will stick and be a bastard to pull up if this needs to be done again in the future.

    16) Lay the carpet back down, and put your plastic panels back on.

    I was amazed that it turned out so well. I actually went banging on the carpet, to see if I could hear a difference in the sound (like banging to hear a patched wall, stud, or bondo'd body panel). I couldn't find the panel, even though I knew exactly where it was.

    After I realized how easy it was to do it this way, I kicked myself for bothering to do it the "right" way the first time. It'll really save you in the future if this happens again too. You could literally change the fuel pump on the side of the road at night, with a ratchet and a pair of screw drivers, in about 30 minutes, spending half of that saying "Where did I put my screwdriver?"

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    Senior Junior Member warpwr's Avatar
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    Great write-up JWSmythe. Thanks, I copied it for my records.

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    Yeah, GM fuel pumps go out a lot. I am getting my 2nd one put in this week. I have only had the car 6 months. These cars are very maintenance intensive once you get 75K+ miles on them so just get used to it. Luckily most parts have a warrenty. My fuel pump still does, so its only labor. So far from 72-81K miles here is what I have had go out on me.

    Water pump
    IAC
    TPS
    GM anti-theft system (dealership couldnt find what was wrong, but they took the entire column apart and somehow it has never failed to start again)
    2 fuel pumps
    pinion bearing
    wheel bearings
    throwout bearing
    window motor

    Never did a single burnout or powershift in it. Meh, sucks, oh well, live and learn. DONT BUY A USED CAR!

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    Black on black.
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    PS. just drop the tank, thats what we did the first time and will do again this week. May take more time, but hell, its a 4.5 hour job in the tech manual.

  11. #11
    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    I dropped my tank also but I had the rear out the first time. Second time the rear was back in and I had to pull it because I had something wrong ( or so I thought). Not a big deal. The 98's have metal filler necks so that makes them a little trickier to get in and out but I widened the filler neck hole a little wider where it passes through and it slides in and out without much problem now.

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    Senior Member 02z28ls1's Avatar
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    I did a metal filler neck type in a shop on a rack. I managed to remove the fuel pump without removing the axle. There is JUST enough room to do so if you disconnect a few things from the axle so it can swing down a little further. Not a big deal to remove the axle, but in a shop where time is money any time savings/less manual labor is worth trying.
    My own car I'm sure I will be doing myself in the future at home when and if it goes out. I will be doing the 'zipper' method hole in the floor. There are imported Japanese cars built this way, I think all cars should be built this way for ease of service.

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    Member stanger88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02z28ls1 View Post
    I did a metal filler neck type in a shop on a rack. I managed to remove the fuel pump without removing the axle. There is JUST enough room to do so if you disconnect a few things from the axle so it can swing down a little further. Not a big deal to remove the axle, but in a shop where time is money any time savings/less manual labor is worth trying.
    My own car I'm sure I will be doing myself in the future at home when and if it goes out. I will be doing the 'zipper' method hole in the floor. There are imported Japanese cars built this way, I think all cars should be built this way for ease of service.
    I agree, I am just not into butchering my stuff. If I have to pay a 1-200 more every 6 months when I do fuel pump replacements, so be it. Just another factor in owning an older domestic.

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    thanks guys! now to find a pump, none of the salvage yards near me have any, if anyone knows a yard near me (volusia county) or really... anywhere that will ship, let me know.


    also, as for the rubber mallet, where do i hit it, anywhere? (im dumb >.>)
    and how hard? closing hatch force or just tap it?
    Last edited by Paque; 05-21-2007 at 08:22 PM.

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    before you start pulling stuff apart I would verify voltage to the pump. It could easily be your relay or a fuse. Harris speed works ( sponsor) sells the racetronix kits. Cheaper than a gm replacement and flows 255lph. The installation instructions are very good that come with it.
    There's a shield covering the tank so you'll have to pull that off first and since the tank is metal I would knock the piss out of it with a rubber mallet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    And since the tank is metal I would knock the piss out of it with a rubber mallet.

    whoever you are mr.orion... you are my hero for the day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paque View Post
    whoever you are mr.orion... you are my hero for the day!
    well, guess I can mark that off my list now.

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    Senior Member 02z28ls1's Avatar
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    Did I read that right? You are not considering installing a USED fuel pump are you? That would be a waste of time in this case because of the amount of labor involved in the job.
    Wanted to point out that if I make a hole in my floor-it will be done in a manner that if someone didn't know better they would think it was built that way. There are prefabricated access doors available in aluminum for various race car applications. If it's good enough for NHRA funny car classes it's good enough for me. Not into booty fab myself-sure not going to treat my baby that way.

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    Member stanger88's Avatar
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    Well, GF's Dad and I did the fuel pump today. Took 1 hour and 10 minutes including dumping the gas out of the tank (we took it down with 14 gal in it) and putting gas in.

    Fuel pump replaced. Not bad for a "4.5" hour job, lmao.

    We also found out that the cause was not the bad FP but rather the ground wire under my driver-side seat. This grounds the seat controls and the fuel pump. Damn, learned something new. GM stripped the hole out, the wire never was grounded right, and I bet that is why the last owner traded her in...always cut out, lmao!

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanger88 View Post
    Well, GF's Dad and I did the fuel pump today. Took 1 hour and 10 minutes including dumping the gas out of the tank (we took it down with 14 gal in it) and putting gas in.

    Fuel pump replaced. Not bad for a "4.5" hour job, lmao.

    We also found out that the cause was not the bad FP but rather the ground wire under my driver-side seat. This grounds the seat controls and the fuel pump. Damn, learned something new. GM stripped the hole out, the wire never was grounded right, and I bet that is why the last owner traded her in...always cut out, lmao!
    that's why I always recommend checking voltage back there. Might have caught it...maybe. 1hr 10 min is damn good for that job. It takes me that long to bring the cooler of beer out to the garage and get the car on stands.

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