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De-screen MAF? Yes or No...

This is a discussion on De-screen MAF? Yes or No... within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by danziger Your fuel trims are off because the ECM is trying to compensate for MORE airflow without ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by danziger View Post
    Your fuel trims are off because the ECM is trying to compensate for MORE airflow without the restrictive screen in place.




    (Disclaimer: My post is based upon purely subjective and hypothetical deductive reasoning. My only intent here is to "stir the pot.")
    I won't waste much time responding....... Yeah take that SUPER restrictive screen out!! I TOOK MINE OUT DUDE AND I COULD FEEL THE ADDED POWER!! Those engineers had NO clue when they put that in there and robbed my 18 horsepower!

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    i thought the screen was in there to keep flys out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2Tuner View Post
    I won't waste much time responding....... Yeah take that SUPER restrictive screen out!! I TOOK MINE OUT DUDE AND I COULD FEEL THE ADDED POWER!! Those engineers had NO clue when they put that in there and robbed my 18 horsepower!
    Wow! Don't get all butt-hurt because somebody is having a pleasant exchange of ideas to further our knowledge in this hobby. I never said removing the screen would provide huge gains, but I don't just accept blanket statements about how doing so is dangerous. "Those engineers" also installed weak-ass pushrods and 10-bolts, less-than-stellar ring packages, and lame oil pumps... Not to mention "those engineers" REMOVED the screen in the Z06. Buy some Tampax, Midol and Dove bars and untwist your panties. If you can't take a calm and humorous rebuttal on the internet, I'd hate to see how you react in real life. Geez...

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    Member danziger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BREAKxNECKxSPEED View Post
    Even if taking the screen off does give you some small benefit of HP/TQ I would think the benefit would be so little it wouldnt be worth it. Kind of like the throttle body bypass mod.
    I tend to agree that the gains would be minimal at a stock power level. However, as you start moving more air (with more cubes, H/C, F/I etc) it stands to reason that you want to remove as much restriction as possible. Like I said at the outset of this discussion, I'm not preaching for folks to take the screen out, I just don't buy the reasoning. Question everything...that's how you learn.
    2000 Z28 382/nitrous...sold and missed.
    2004 Z06 CE Z16...still looks stock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danziger View Post
    Wow! Don't get all butt-hurt because somebody is having a pleasant exchange of ideas to further our knowledge in this hobby. I never said removing the screen would provide huge gains, but I don't just accept blanket statements about how doing so is dangerous. "Those engineers" also installed weak-ass pushrods and 10-bolts, less-than-stellar ring packages, and lame oil pumps... Not to mention "those engineers" REMOVED the screen in the Z06. Buy some Tampax, Midol and Dove bars and untwist your panties. If you can't take a calm and humorous rebuttal on the internet, I'd hate to see how you react in real life. Geez...
    LOL You think I'm butt hurt!
    Could care less. I thought it was pretty funny myself actually.
    Yeah that Z06 is the same that we were talking about huh.....And I guess the regular Vettes that don't have the screen don't count.
    I have never had an issue with stock pushrods sorry about your luck!! We also have many cars going 10's on the stock 10 bolts.....
    Thanks for the amusement at lunch.
    I'll try to calm down the rest of the afternoon.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Most custom shops/tuners will remove the screen before a tune, or recommend that you remove it before the car is brought in for a tune.

    Simply removing the screen and using the stock tune will give you nothing, and most likely skew the fuel trims. A custom tune is needed to remap the MAF sensor and compensate for the increased airflow, only then will removing the screen benefit.

    All the aftermarket high flow MAF's are screenless, and work with the stock tune because the sensors are calibrated as such. GM also started leaving the screens out as well as mentioned already.

    And danzinger brings up a good point, just because GM put it there doesn't mean it's a good idea. Take the 10 bolt rear for instance, weak design and really not worthy of such a car, but GM was too cheap and did it anyway, and as a crutch they program the cars with torque management, and design slow acting hydraulic clutch systems for the manuals along with a clutch that won't hold much HP. These cars are not a godsend,,,they have their share of problems and design flaws.

    If you are hard pressed to remove the screen, get the car tuned for it,,,,if a tune is not in your future, leave the screen in for the time being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Most custom shops/tuners will remove the screen before a tune, or recommend that you remove it before the car is brought in for a tune.

    Simply removing the screen and using the stock tune will give you nothing, and most likely skew the fuel trims. A custom tune is needed to remap the MAF sensor and compensate for the increased airflow, only then will removing the screen benefit.

    All the aftermarket high flow MAF's are screenless, and work with the stock tune because the sensors are calibrated as such. GM also started leaving the screens out as well as mentioned already.

    And danzinger brings up a good point, just because GM put it there doesn't mean it's a good idea. Take the 10 bolt rear for instance, weak design and really not worthy of such a car, but GM was too cheap and did it anyway, and as a crutch they program the cars with torque management, and design slow acting hydraulic clutch systems for the manuals along with a clutch that won't hold much HP. These cars are not a godsend,,,they have their share of problems and design flaws.

    If you are hard pressed to remove the screen, get the car tuned for it,,,,if a tune is not in your future, leave the screen in for the time being.
    Good explanation Larry. As you know we have went over this MNAY times already in vast detail!! I just get tired of explaining stuff that we have already went over in GREAT detail. A quick search would of found that.
    How is the conv. doing with your HP tuning..?

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    I gotta ask this:

    Are you gonna do the TB blade mod to allow WOT? If not, the de-screening or the MAF is completely useless. The TB mod adds at least 5% more air volume than the not-quite-wide-open stock setting.

    I've never thought de-screening the MAF was gonna be marmful OR very helpful, so I opted for safety (left the screen) in case something weird happened and a big chunk of something made its way into the intake system.

    My vote is leave it alone and do all the other free/cheap mods first.

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    All the aftermarket mafs have no screen-correct. My question is-why does almost everyone who buys a aftermarket maf wind up putting the stock maf back in? Alot of guys will trade you a granatelli (sp?) or slp maf for a stock maf straight up. Must be some reason. My guess is it makes the car run too lean or makes it run shitty. Thats just my guess so dont spaz out if I am wrong. hahahaha!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2Tuner View Post
    LOL You think I'm butt hurt!
    Could care less. I thought it was pretty funny myself actually.
    Yeah that Z06 is the same that we were talking about huh.....And I guess the regular Vettes that don't have the screen don't count.
    I have never had an issue with stock pushrods sorry about your luck!! We also have many cars going 10's on the stock 10 bolts.....
    Thanks for the amusement at lunch.
    I'll try to calm down the rest of the afternoon.
    If you "cared less" you wouldn't have bothered to "waste much time responding". It's OK, I appreciate your efforts to add knowledge, despite the methodology.
    Fact: The higher-performance model of the C5 Corvette (Z06) does not come with a MAF screen. If the newer C6s are sans screens, that only reinforces the point.
    Fact: The factory LS1 pushrods are amazingly weak. A 3-2 shift mishap will bend them easily. Does anyone ever re-use factory pushrods in even the smallest cam application? Nope.
    Fact: The 7.5 10-bolt was a cost-saving measure by GM. It will barely handle the stock power levels with a M6 on street tires and has plenty of documented failures. Add sticky tires and you're on borrowed time. A4s, even with a stout convertor, have less driveline shock, but still push the 10-bolt to the limit. If the 10-bolt was as robust as you imply, there would be no market for 12-bolt, 9-inch and S60 rears.
    You are using a double standard in your argument by saying you have had luck with pushrods and 10-bolts, but then condemn me for saying I have had luck with MAF screen removal. I do applaud you for toning the sarcasm down and sharing ideas and opinions. That's what this hobby is all about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danziger View Post
    I tend to agree that the gains would be minimal at a stock power level. However, as you start moving more air (with more cubes, H/C, F/I etc) it stands to reason that you want to remove as much restriction as possible. Like I said at the outset of this discussion, I'm not preaching for folks to take the screen out, I just don't buy the reasoning. Question everything...that's how you learn.
    No doubt about it- I question everything. I know one thing-I am not pulling my screen off to find out what it does because I dont have the money to question things that much hahahahahaha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2Tuner View Post
    Good explanation Larry. As you know we have went over this MNAY times already in vast detail!! I just get tired of explaining stuff that we have already went over in GREAT detail. A quick search would of found that.
    How is the conv. doing with your HP tuning..?
    How come Larry's explanation is "good", but when I brought those points up earlier, you got excitable? Did I date you sister or something? J/K and all in good fun...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2Tuner View Post
    Good explanation Larry. As you know we have went over this MNAY times already in vast detail!! I just get tired of explaining stuff that we have already went over in GREAT detail. A quick search would of found that.
    How is the conv. doing with your HP tuning..?
    I understand,,,these cars have been around long enough now, most of this stuff should be common knowledge by now.

    The car is doing great, haven't broken anything yet,,,lol. Hptuning is getting better. Made some more changes and plan on hitting the track in a couple of weeks again. What have you been working on lately? Cheers, Larry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BREAKxNECKxSPEED View Post
    All the aftermarket mafs have no screen-correct. My question is-why does almost everyone who buys a aftermarket maf wind up putting the stock maf back in? Alot of guys will trade you a granatelli (sp?) or slp maf for a stock maf straight up. Must be some reason. My guess is it makes the car run too lean or makes it run shitty. Thats just my guess so dont spaz out if I am wrong. hahahaha!
    The aftermarket MAFs are calibrated from the vendor for specific parameters. They seem to go too lean, or have conflicts with the factory ECM. I've never heard much good about them from anybody in the tuning business, but I've never used one, so I can't speak from personal experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I understand,,,these cars have been around long enough now, most of this stuff should be common knowledge by now.

    The car is doing great, haven't broken anything yet,,,lol. Hptuning is getting better. Made some more changes and plan on hitting the track in a couple of weeks again. What have you been working on lately? Cheers, Larry.


    A Elco with a 144 just put a Gemni Twin Alcohol Plate on top of the blower with a stand alone fuel system.
    It does 10lbs on the blower...It will be a blast on the botttle. Just put 120 lbs of weight in the bumper. It hooks on the street now........
    Here is a seek peek.
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    Don't be afraid of the bottle!!! Be afraid of your tune!!!

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    That car is going to be fun. PM sent.

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    ok so to sum it up here guys..if your going to get a tune..de- maf...if not leave it in...i'm tired of the "10 bolt" argument...they threw the 10 bolt in to save money...period. now do you think putting extra material in the maf would save gm money? no. The ls1 engine was not specifically designed for f-body...so dont give me any of the well 10 bolt spiel. The ls1 engine has been considered one of the 10 best engines of all time..with a TB that can handle ups of 500 hp/tq. The maf is fine. If you are running stock tune...or even a K&N ect filter KEEP the screen in period. if your going to get a Speed Density tune or even a tune...then go ahead and de screen.

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    as lous and many others have said before...the z06 which runs a ls6 not a ls1..runs a de-screened maf because the tables ect are designed for a screenless maf..the ls1 is not..any one that argues that is incredibly stupid.

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    Otay spanky

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    as lous and many others have said before...the z06 which runs a ls6 not a ls1..runs a de-screened maf because the tables ect are designed for a screenless maf..the ls1 is not..any one that argues that is incredibly stupid.
    OK, I'll argue that.
    Are you telling me that the descreened MAF flows so much more air that it requires a recalibration because the ECM can't adjust for it? If so, how come the big arguement is that it will only give you a couple of HP, so don't mess with it? The ECM can compensate for an airlid, which is well-known to add 8-10rwhp and is a favorite mod because it FLOWS MORE AIR. But now you are arguing that removing that little screen flows more than that, or are we back to the "air straightening" arguement?
    Insinuating that someone is "incredibly stupid" for wanting an explanation (which none has yet been given with any documentation) is close-minded and arrogant.

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