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ceased engine?

This is a discussion on ceased engine? within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I have a new problem, this morning I started my car up for the first time this year. Started pretty ...

  1. #1
    Member Bouvers's Avatar
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    ceased engine?

    I have a new problem, this morning I started my car up for the first time this year. Started pretty well actually considering my previous low fuel pressure problem(atlest I think it is). I let the engine come up to temp. then tried moving it from its resting place. (didn't get anywhere thanks to ice) so I just gave up, put the car in park and stepped out the car, just as I did, it died. Oddly enough it didn't sputter, whine or fluctuate rpm's at all just died as if the key was switched off.
    I checked the oil scared that I ceased the engine, perfectly fine. temp. was a little low but easily within opperating temp. Now I try to turn the engine over and the starter doesn't engage just makes that click click click noise. WTF is wrong I have no blown fuses, if its a wrecked started whatever but why did my car die... any inputs would be awesome thanks guys I'm really scared my car is fubr'd.
    Bouvs.

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    Member Mjolnir's Avatar
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    check the battery? plugs? starter?

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    First thing I'd suspect is the battery/connections. Never had one kill the car while running...but been through the clicking trying to start with a bad one.

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    Member Bouvers's Avatar
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    Blue 1997 Trans Am(Sold)
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    ya thats a really good idea, the battery wasn't frozen but it was dead and I did boost it to get it started... however, the gauge did seem good but I didn't keep a very close eye on it. I'll check it out tomorrow thanks guys!

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    Just my gut feeling since I wasn't there and didn't hear the car but if something broke you definitely would've known it.
    I've actually put some thought into my restart this year. It can't be good to let a car sit for a month or so and then fire it up dry. I think this year I'm gonna pull the fuel pump fuse and turn it over a few times to get oil to the top of the motor before firing it up.

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    Slower Than a 3rd Gen juiced99ws6's Avatar
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    Mystic Teal
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    jumpstart the car again and see what happens. sounds like a bad alternator to me. your car will run off the power you give to the battery for a short time and then since its not recieving any charge it cant support the electrical side for very long.

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    Slower Than a 3rd Gen juiced99ws6's Avatar
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    let us know what you find

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    Quote Originally Posted by juiced99ws6 View Post
    jumpstart the car again and see what happens. sounds like a bad alternator to me. your car will run off the power you give to the battery for a short time and then since its not recieving any charge it cant support the electrical side for very long.
    good advice

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    Slower Than a 3rd Gen juiced99ws6's Avatar
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    thanks.. dont give me a big head

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    Single Malt rbob93's Avatar
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    Well let's see now.....you had a dead battery....jumped it....the gauge looked good....but the engine died after running for a bit

    Time for a new battery.....put a full charge on it before installing it in the car

    Even with a good alternator you aren't going to charge enough to overcome the dead battery
    You also run the risk of frying the electronics in your alternator due to the added load placed on it
    Alternators aren't designed to charge dead or low batteries

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    Slower Than a 3rd Gen juiced99ws6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbob93 View Post
    Well let's see now.....you had a dead battery....jumped it....the gauge looked good....but the engine died after running for a bit

    Time for a new battery.....put a full charge on it before installing it in the car

    Even with a good alternator you aren't going to charge enough to overcome the dead battery
    You also run the risk of frying the electronics in your alternator due to the added load placed on it
    Alternators aren't designed to charge dead or low batteries
    the alternator only works as hard as the belt will spin it, its not like it says ok now I guess I have to kick it into overdrive.. I have killed my battery many of times because of leaving my hood lights on and I mean to the point that I couldnt even open my doors (dont have door key only remote) and yet it still charged up just fine.

    BTW you do realize a car will run without a battery right? try it sometime, as long as it starts then the alternator will take it from there. (Besides starting) a car doesnt even need a battery.
    Last edited by juiced99ws6; 03-12-2007 at 11:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by juiced99ws6 View Post
    BTW you do realize a car will run without a battery right? try it sometime, as long as it starts then the alternator will take it from there. (Besides starting) a car doesnt even need a battery.
    That was the reason I was thinking alternator was good advice. That's an old trick to test your alternator. Start the car up and pull a cable off the battery, if the car dies then it's your alternator. I test mine by putting a multi-meter across the battery terminals. Should be ~14.4 volts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by juiced99ws6 View Post
    the alternator only works as hard as the belt will spin it, its not like it says ok now I guess I have to kick it into overdrive.. I have killed my battery many of times because of leaving my hood lights on and I mean to the point that I couldnt even open my doors (dont have door key only remote) and yet it still charged up just fine.

    BTW you do realize a car will run without a battery right? try it sometime, as long as it starts then the alternator will take it from there. (Besides starting) a car doesnt even need a battery.
    You need to be VERY careful doing that. As a matter a fact I would NEVER do that with my own computer controled car or a customers. I've seen MANY cars come in on the hook do to a fryed PCM from that "test".
    When you do that on any newer vehical it causes the alt. to spike which can cause MANY problems you didn't already have. I've seen them spike in test as high as 17 volts.
    You need to do a voltage drop on the + batt. cable. Measuring voltage is a thing of the past...... Voltage drops are soo much more acurate in helping diagnos ANY elec. problem.
    Don't be afraid of the bottle!!! Be afraid of your tune!!!

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    Single Malt rbob93's Avatar
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    Thank you LS2Tuner for your EDUCATED reply.

    Back in the 60's & 70's you could get away with that.....but no more!

    And yes....it's possible for a car to run without a battery, but the battery is a necssary component because it acts as a "filter" to stabilize the pulsating DC produced by the alternator.

    Even connecting or disconnecting test equipment gives rise to the possibility of causing voltage spikes that could also damage sensitive electronic components.

    Alternators are designed to MAINTAIN a charged battery, NOT charge a battery in a discharged state.
    Battery manufacturers will also instruct you to FULLY CHARGE a battery before placing it into service for this very reason.

    If the alternator is suspect, remove it and have it tested on a machine.

    If the battery is more than two years old and has been discharged, it's probably shot or on it's way out due to sulphation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbob93 View Post
    Thank you LS2Tuner for your EDUCATED reply.

    Back in the 60's & 70's you could get away with that.....but no more!

    And yes....it's possible for a car to run without a battery, but the battery is a necssary component because it acts as a "filter" to stabilize the pulsating DC produced by the alternator.

    Even connecting or disconnecting test equipment gives rise to the possibility of causing voltage spikes that could also damage sensitive electronic components.

    Alternators are designed to MAINTAIN a charged battery, NOT charge a battery in a discharged state.
    Battery manufacturers will also instruct you to FULLY CHARGE a battery before placing it into service for this very reason.

    If the alternator is suspect, remove it and have it tested on a machine.

    If the battery is more than two years old and has been discharged, it's probably shot or on it's way out due to sulphation.
    True that on the batt. for sure!!!! We had some VERY interesting testing videos that BMW made on the whole voltage spikeing issue. In 04 the 745 had 82 computers in the one car with all the options.......
    Glad someone else that is knowledged agreed before someone replys that they do it all the time with no problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbob93 View Post
    Thank you LS2Tuner for your EDUCATED reply.
    and my reply made no sense whatsoever I take it?

    and I take it the voltage regulator does nothing to regulate the voltage

    I never said it was in no way a battery, just a response and you tried completely shooting it out of the water

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    Quote Originally Posted by juiced99ws6 View Post
    and my reply made no sense whatsoever I take it?

    and I take it the voltage regulator does nothing to regulate the voltage

    I never said it was in no way a battery, just a response and you tried completely shooting it out of the water
    Never said it didn't.....you assumed

    If a battery is left standing in a discharged condition, lead sulphate will harden and have a high electrical resistance.
    Alternators are voltage regulated. The charging current is controlled by the battery's state of charge.
    During charging, battery voltage rises until it meets the regulated voltage lowering the current output along the way.
    In a sulphated battery, it gives a false report and the regulator shuts down the charge prematurely. The battery then has a minimal charge on it and it doesn't take long to run it down.
    The high resistance from the hardened sulphate also causes the electronics in your alternator to heat up more than normal, thereby decreasing the life of the diodes. So yes.....it's possible to fry the electronics in your alternator by running a discharged battery.

    I offered my opinion on the guy's problem just as you did.....you decided to get all butt hurt over it.

    ( and I never said it couldn't be the alternator )

    You'll find that there are alot of people in the world that have something to add to conversations. It doesn't necessarily mean thay are picking a fight or trying to show you up.

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    Slower Than a 3rd Gen juiced99ws6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbob93 View Post
    Never said it didn't.....you assumed

    If a battery is left standing in a discharged condition, lead sulphate will harden and have a high electrical resistance.
    Alternators are voltage regulated. The charging current is controlled by the battery's state of charge.
    During charging, battery voltage rises until it meets the regulated voltage lowering the current output along the way.
    In a sulphated battery, it gives a false report and the regulator shuts down the charge prematurely. The battery then has a minimal charge on it and it doesn't take long to run it down.
    The high resistance from the hardened sulphate also causes the electronics in your alternator to heat up more than normal, thereby decreasing the life of the diodes. So yes.....it's possible to fry the electronics in your alternator by running a discharged battery.

    I offered my opinion on the guy's problem just as you did.....you decided to get all butt hurt over it.

    ( and I never said it couldn't be the alternator )

    You'll find that there are alot of people in the world that have something to add to conversations. It doesn't necessarily mean thay are picking a fight or trying to show you up.
    ok, well then sorry. how it was worded just sounded to me like something else. I was tempermental after your first post for some reason and then after your "educated" response I got annoyed. I dont get that way often, just depends on my day at work i guess lol.

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