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Car Dead, read and help my poor soul out

This is a discussion on Car Dead, read and help my poor soul out within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; So not to long ago I had to rebuild my alternator (a total rebuild of all parts too), due to ...

  1. #1
    TerribleTed TerribleTed's Avatar
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    Car Dead, read and help my poor soul out

    So not to long ago I had to rebuild my alternator (a total rebuild of all parts too), due to the PS system leaking onto it. At that time I bypasses the normal PS cooler and stuck my own on the side PS cooler to avoid it ever leaking again,

    ON to this issue:

    I had been driving around with a obd2 code of p0440 for weeks now...then yesterday i noticed the code was gone and thought WTF,,,excellent,,,

    then as I drove into the movie theaters I noticed some hesitations,,
    throttle and rpm issues...then by the time I pulled into the parking lot the car died..,.,I tried to bump start it but this did not help,,,
    When I towed it home,,battery Volt was next to nothing,,so I charged it over night ona trickel,,,Batt voltage was fully charged when I started my car and it seems the ALt was working,,since I had a Voltage of 13.8 volts,,but car still coult not idle for to long,,

    SO,,,since this ALT was just rebuilt and no leaks onto it happened,,and it seems to be charging to some degree..CAN it be the fuel pump,,
    As in can the fuel pump cause an issue that takes the battery voltage out (which would explain my Code going away)...WHAT are typical fuel pump issues,,do they just die,,,or do they just cause sputtering and no stable iddle,,

    Help.,,,(i know I will remove the ALT and have them spin it at the local auto store,,,) to see if it might be that,,

    Thanks for any data,,

  2. #2
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    02 35th LE Camaro SS

    http://www.obd-codes.com/p0440

    If you think your fuel pump is not working, the first thing you should do is read what your fuel pressure is at the rail (off the intake). It should read between 55-60psi.

  3. #3
    TerribleTed TerribleTed's Avatar
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    So I used my friends Fuel Pressure tester device (analog gauge and hose set up) and connected it to the fuel rail connection and then turned the car on (not turned the motor over) pressure was at around 20 psi. I did this several times and then tried to find in my manual what the pressure should be with no luck in that shop manuel.

    So is 20 PSI at the fuel rail connectior on a stock 2000 Z28 a bad thing and if so would it cause the car to run off the battery and drain her. I ask this since I originally had an obd2 code P0440 for months then on the day i noticed this code was gone was when the car died (sputtered, idled bad,then died) and when I measured the battery voltage it was almost dead. So something took my battery down. Would a fuel pump do this if it was going bad.

    Feed back,,,help,,,

    I see a race tronics furl pump set up that looks plug and play,,,so that will be my choice..still wondering why my battery got drained,,,

    Thanks

  4. #4
    its short but its skinny. jiveass's Avatar
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    pewter
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    just because your battery appears to be charged, it could still be at fault....i found this out in my silverado....starts up fine, but hesitates and sputters when trying to drive...changed the battery and all was fine....turns out it had a dead cell.

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    Electrical Engineer KMdef9's Avatar
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    Take you battery to the autoparts store and have them test it.

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    TerribleTed TerribleTed's Avatar
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    I shall get the battery tested and the alternator removed then tested as well.

    I wonder if the P0440 code I had was a precursor issue to this current issue which is now a hard fault. Anyway.,..,I need to check my book and find a better spot to connect into the fuel pump system to check psi's....

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    its short but its skinny. jiveass's Avatar
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    pewter
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    codes can be thrown from lack of voltage i believe......anyone?

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    I don't know about that jive...

    However, your fuel pump runs off voltage. if you aren't getting the proper voltage to it, this could be the reason as to why you are only reading fuel pressure of only 20psi.

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    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I don't know about that jive...

    However, your fuel pump runs off voltage. if you aren't getting the proper voltage to it, this could be the reason as to why you are only reading fuel pressure of only 20psi.
    is possible if the voltage is very low. I will do what the members suggested about the battery check and alternator check and then see what you got.

  10. #10
    TerribleTed TerribleTed's Avatar
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    So I removed the alternator and battery,,total time or removal 20 mins,,
    took them both into kragen,,battery passes load test,,,alternator passed spin test,,
    We did this 2 times to each and they passed,,

    So its onto something else,,,I say the fuel pump,,,but why my battery was dischared is beyond me,,(a short in the fuel pump perhaps) or maybe its not the fuel pump but some otehr device,,

    So here is my plan,,(and others please chime in for added data-please).,,,
    I will install my fully charged battery and make all connections to it,,
    I will install my alternator and make all connections to it, then
    with no other things done I will measure the battery for V level and note this, then wait 24 hours and measure again. IF battery V drains to much I will see the diff-else its some other part that is bad.

    I think its the fuel pump since when the car ignition switch is on I hear the pump and it sounds as it always does. Which if I understand the basics of the fuel system, when the ful pump gets turned on (starter motor not turning) the fuel rail should be at 50 to 60 psi,,of which I get 20 now as it stands.

    I shall blow some clouds tonight and read my shop manuel,,,(well I shall read it,,but the cloud blowing was just a joke to get yurr tentions and such after suck a long posting,,,)

    time to read up and lear about the fueling systems,,etc and pray its not something more hard to find,,,a fuel pump change out I can hang with,,,

    If I dochange fuel pump,,I shall go with a racetronics F99 with all the wiring harness too,,
    and also cut a quick access panel into my car as need be and do a write up,,,,its only sheet metal,,,ha ha

  11. #11
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Don't wait 24 hrs...

    You should be able to see a draw from the battery right away, in amps.

    Draw test directions:
    Set meter to amps
    disconnect neg battery terminal.
    hook meter leads up. One lead to the neg battery terminal and one to the neg cable. WARNING:now all the electricity flowing through the car is flowing through your meter. Hopefully it has an internal fuse you can replace, because if too much current flows through, it'll blow. So don't open the door, try to start the car,etc. that might cause too much current flow through your meter.

    Normal parasitic draw is less then 25 miliAmps (.025 amps)

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    ^^ This. Just make sure you have ALL accessories turned off when you do the test. If you have an abnormally high draw, you can start pulling fuses to see what drops the amperage. When you see a significant drop you have most likely located the culprit circuit. Another option is to connect a test light between the negative terminal and cable if you do not have a DVOM. The brighter the light the greater the draw on your battery. Usual suspects are any aftermarket electrical accessories and the alternator itself.

  13. #13
    its short but its skinny. jiveass's Avatar
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    pewter
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    just throw a loaner battery in there to see if it fixes it...thats what id do....

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    TerribleTed TerribleTed's Avatar
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    PAJeff and 35thAnv...thanks for the data..
    I shall use your data and do just that...and see what gives....

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    TerribleTed TerribleTed's Avatar
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    So I did the test and found the current draw to be minimal and stable-no matter what fusees I pulled, and i pulled most of them. So what ever is bad is not draining the battery.

    So my sypnosis is jaded at this point in time.

    The car did present to me driving over the past several months fine, with aobd2 code of P0440 only. Months went by and she drove fine. The one day I noticed the code was gone and drove it still-then she dies on me after some throttle hesitation and sputtering. I could not bump start her and when it was towed home, I measured the battery and it was basically drained real low. After the battery was fully charged, I tok the batt and alt in to get it tested and they passed. Installed them both-then measured fuel pressure from port on the drivers side fuel rail and it never got more then 10 to 20 psi when car ws on and or turning over and sputtering like it was wanting to run.

    So me thinks its the Fuel Pump-but perhaps anyone can chime in here. When the main CPU dies (PCM or BCM) does the car even turn over and or allow a try at starting. Since my car does at least try to start bur sputters some then within 15 secs dies. So I wanna say fuel pump.

    Today when I go home I will check my system for that 50 to 60 hz signal that must occur for the fuel system to stay on. I think its a dark blue wire from connector 2 on the main PCM. time to get out the show maual and probe.,

    But me thinks its the fuel pump,

  16. #16
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    My diagnosis is that it's fuel related (most likely fuel pump).

    You are not getting enough fuel to the engine to keep it running.

    You are getting 10-20psi when you should be getting closer to 60psi.

  17. #17
    None Shall Pass Knight's Avatar
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    Just turning the key to the on position, not turning the engine over, you should see the fuel pressure at around 58 psi. Have you checked the fuel filter? You could also check the voltage to the fuel pump itself.

    With proper voltage, you could check the pressure as close to the pump as possible. If you are only seeing 20 psi or so, I would suspect a faulty pump.

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    TerribleTed TerribleTed's Avatar
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    Now all I need is to order in the Racetrnics F99 pump and all its goodies and wire it in,,

    Since this it new territory fo me I wonder how much moddin I need to do to the original fuel pressure sender unit to get the racetronics to fit.

    Time to search for racetronics fuel pump installs,,,etc,,,

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    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerribleTed View Post
    Now all I need is to order in the Racetrnics F99 pump and all its goodies and wire it in,,

    Since this it new territory fo me I wonder how much moddin I need to do to the original fuel pressure sender unit to get the racetronics to fit.

    Time to search for racetronics fuel pump installs,,,etc,,,
    The pump comes with detail instructions on how to make it happen. have you changed the fuel filter like it has been suggested? have you follow the line to make sure you don't have a kink? Have you check the voltage at the fuel pump electrical plug?
    Make sure of these items are checked before you buy your pump.
    Last edited by JayTA98; 06-04-2011 at 11:07 PM.

  20. #20
    TerribleTed TerribleTed's Avatar
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    So to finish up my initial posting and my findings and repairs,,,here it goes,,
    If you like read the above data to see what my problem was and here is the fix.
    Instead of buying form racetronics an aftermarket race pump and special wire extender, I figured since I am stock and have over 350K miles on my Z28 I would just replace the entire bucket pump and sender and call it a day,,if it fixed my issue,,

    IT DID,,,and I must say that my original fuel pump must have ben slowly going bad since with this new direct replacement which is stock in all aspects, the mid all the way to redline now is more crisp and I can feel the better power band. Now my old filter socks were not that bad considering and when I did a visual of the inside of my tank, it was so clean I was surprised.

    Now how did I get to my fuel pump..well I did the trap door method,,
    It was easy to do. PM me if you wish to do this-so I can tell you what and where to cut and how to avoid getting any wires cut,,,I have some hints,,
    Now the car runs great,,,and it seems my original stock fuel pump lasted over 350K miles,,which is good,,,I hope me the driver can last another 350K miles,,,

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