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bolt on help

This is a discussion on bolt on help within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by soadkrazy21 Originally Posted by kingls1 Don't forget a blackwing or K&N along with a smooth bellow, there ...

  1. #21
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soadkrazy21 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kingls1 View Post
    Don't forget a blackwing or K&N along with a smooth bellow, there are some deals on lid&filter packages on ebay also check wUndercarparts.com for a deal on a Magna Flow #16723 I got mine for $563 freeS/H $770 everywhere else!!! sent them a offer and thay accepted..do some more reading on the loud mouth before you buy! cheap yea but a lot have been changed due to sound!!! Has anyone seen the True H.P. #'s from this type of set up on a stock Ls1 (Headers, Y, Exhaust, Lid, Filter, Bellow, Tune)?????I have been wondering what was gained I was thinking right in line with Keith on this!!
    your saying to look into blackwing and k&n lids compared to the slp one? and thanks for letting me know about a smooth bellow will probably invest in one. also your saying that the loudmouth sacrifices performance for the noise, while magnaflow gives you more performance?
    You're not going to find a Blackwing lid so don't bother looking for one. They discontinued them in 2003. If you do find one, you're going to pay a hefty price for it. Get the standard SLP lid. Don't buy into the smooth bellow either. Get a Fernco connector from your local hardware store for $4. Does the same thing.

    As far as exhaust, they all net the same results unless you step up to a true dual system, which is costly. Get the one you like the sound of most. Magnaflow is popular. SLP is also popular if you intend on keeping your stock manifolds (meaning you won't be getting headers).

    Lastly, don't...I repeat...don't buy a K&N air filter. Get a standard paper filter, preferably an Amsoil one.
    It's on jackstands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    You're not going to find a Blackwing lid so don't bother looking for one. They discontinued them in 2003. If you do find one, you're going to pay a hefty price for it. Get the standard SLP lid. Don't buy into the smooth bellow either. Get a Fernco connector from your local hardware store for $4. Does the same thing.

    As far as exhaust, they all net the same results unless you step up to a true dual system, which is costly. Get the one you like the sound of most. Magnaflow is popular. SLP is also popular if you intend on keeping your stock manifolds (meaning you won't be getting headers).

    Lastly, don't...I repeat...don't buy a K&N air filter. Get a standard paper filter, preferably an Amsoil one.
    ok so stick to slp, but what is the difference with the whole cold air intake package and simply the lid? Thanks for the advice on the fernco connector ill look into that and save me a lot of money. Also i think ill stick to the LMII because I think it sounds good, and i plan on keeping my stock manifolds, but eventually down the road i hopefully will change to true duals. Why is the slp catback not popular if you add headers?

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    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    ^^^Some aftermarket CAI packages get the air down real low, and many here have complained about how fast the air filter gets dirty. I got a lid, then sealed my hood to the air box and now it's CAI. I think it looks better also.

    You can't do true duals legally in Cali. This would most likely relocate the cats, and that won't pass visual inspection. The SLP Loudmouth, with LT/ORY, is very loud and raspy like that. Most people don't like the rasp, nor being heard 3 blocks away. I've heard the LM2 works better with that set-up.

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    Senior Member kingls1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soadkrazy21 View Post
    your saying to look into blackwing and k&n lids compared to the slp one? and thanks for letting me know about a smooth bellow will probably invest in one. also your saying that the loudmouth sacrifices performance for the noise, while magnaflow gives you more performance?
    No still a SLP lid use a blackwing filter or k&n like I said check eBay for some combo deals for lid and filter I got both for $149free s/h also picked up a smooth bellow also on there for $37 or $39. Same as the SLP for half the cost had to modify a little to fit in the maf sensor but was very easy...some have complained of a truck like sound from the loudmouth with headers from the LS1 ,Iam sure the performance of both systems are close to each other speaking from experience I love the sound of the Magnaflow and have had a lot of comments on how good it sounds and how badass it sounds when Iam on the Gas+ it is a quality built unit..these are just my opinions as I have just completed this project did a lot of searching/reading and price checking and have spent just under $3100 with wheels&tires, saved a lot along the way but still ended up with quality parts and 1st class job..Frost just sent my PCM so Iam near complete at least for this year...lo

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    formally 01 T/A 0verkill's Avatar
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    there is nothing extra you get out of a blackwing over the otheres so just look around and find one you like the look of and get that one. the smothe bellow is ok i have one but its more for looks and i got a good deal on it. you cant do much in cali for headers and what not so more or less all you can get away with is a catback. im a magnaflow guy as well and dont care much for any thing from slp. as was posted about umi parts i can tell you for sure they are good and you will like it. but befor you get a bunch of parts what are you looking to do with the car go more strait line or carve some curves? if you are like me and want to turn more then i say 3 point sfc's and then spend the coin to get a good shock and spring combo. i like the strano springs and koin shocks. and im going with 35th-anv-ss with going with a amsoil paper filter. the k&n is ok but it could come back to get you when you have to clean and oil it later as if you dont do it just right it will mess up you maf

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingls1 View Post

    No still a SLP lid use a blackwing filter or k&n
    Sorry, but I would NOT recommend a K&N air filter. The oil used on the filter gets the MAF sensor dirty, which in turn causes the signal reading actual airflow to the PCM incorrect. This results in a car that runs less than desirable. This has been proven 100's of times now. Oil also gets inside the intake.

    Like I said OP - get a regular paper air filter.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soadkrazy21 View Post
    and i plan on keeping my stock manifolds, but eventually down the road i hopefully will change to true duals.
    If you plan to stay in Cali,,,then the stock manifolds are a good idea. Moving the cats anywhere from the stock location will raise a red flag. Even shorty headers will move the cats downstream slightly, and that's frowned upon in Cali. Unless you know someone.......

    The only true dual system on the market that works with the stock cats and manifolds is Bassani,,,,so technically that's the only premade dual system that would be legal in California.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    ^^^Some aftermarket CAI packages get the air down real low, and many here have complained about how fast the air filter gets dirty. I got a lid, then sealed my hood to the air box and now it's CAI. I think it looks better also.

    You can't do true duals legally in Cali. This would most likely relocate the cats, and that won't pass visual inspection. The SLP Loudmouth, with LT/ORY, is very loud and raspy like that. Most people don't like the rasp, nor being heard 3 blocks away. I've heard the LM2 works better with that set-up.
    What is the benefit of having a cold air intake compared to just changing the lid though? Does the cold air intake add to the performance? Yea I think im just going to stick to a simple cat back and not have to worry about all these regulations. Most probably LMII, if im looking for a loud, aagressive and deep catback do you guys think the Loudmouth 2 would meet these standards?

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soadkrazy21 View Post
    What is the benefit of having a cold air intake compared to just changing the lid though? Does the cold air intake add to the performance? Yea I think im just going to stick to a simple cat back and not have to worry about all these regulations. Most probably LMII, if im looking for a loud, aagressive and deep catback do you guys think the Loudmouth 2 would meet these standards?
    Well since you are keeping the stock manifolds and cats, I don't think the loud mouth II is going to be all that loud or obnoxious. The cats tame it down quite a bit. Should still have a nice rumble though.
    I ran that system through stock manifolds and cats for a couple years on another 4th gen, it was only slightly louder than stock, just a nice sound, you could tell it was a V8.

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by soadkrazy21 View Post
    What is the benefit of having a cold air intake compared to just changing the lid though? Does the cold air intake add to the performance? Yea I think im just going to stick to a simple cat back and not have to worry about all these regulations. Most probably LMII, if im looking for a loud, aagressive and deep catback do you guys think the Loudmouth 2 would meet these standards?
    Well since you are keeping the stock manifolds and cats, I don't think the loud mouth II is going to be all that loud or obnoxious. The cats tame it down quite a bit. Should still have a nice rumble though.
    I ran that system through stock manifolds and cats for a couple years on another 4th gen, it was only slightly louder than stock, just a nice sound, you could tell it was a V8.
    +1 I also had that same set-up and liked it. Now I have no cats, Kooks LT's, 3" ORY, LMII and all that coupled with a blower makes my car beyond obnoxious.

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    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soadkrazy21 View Post
    What is the benefit of having a cold air intake compared to just changing the lid though? Does the cold air intake add to the performance? Yea I think im just going to stick to a simple cat back and not have to worry about all these regulations. Most probably LMII, if im looking for a loud, aagressive and deep catback do you guys think the Loudmouth 2 would meet these standards?


    Well, a CAI is just that, a CAI. You don't want any hot underhood air breathing in the engine. There are a few ways to accomplish the CAI, IMO the cleanest looking is to seal the hood to the WS6 airbox, and remove the baffles for a straight-thru flow. So, the lid on our cars will help more than sealing the hood for a CAI. Our hoods are almost sealed, not quite. As far as I know, nobody has ever had water ingested thur the hood set-up, stock baffles there or not, and sealed or not. And, you have the cool factor when opening the hood to show the ricers what a real, factory hood can do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    Well, a CAI is just that, a CAI. You don't want any hot underhood air breathing in the engine. There are a few ways to accomplish the CAI, IMO the cleanest looking is to seal the hood to the WS6 airbox, and remove the baffles for a straight-thru flow. So, the lid on our cars will help more than sealing the hood for a CAI. Our hoods are almost sealed, not quite. As far as I know, nobody has ever had water ingested thur the hood set-up, stock baffles there or not, and sealed or not. And, you have the cool factor when opening the hood to show the ricers what a real, factory hood can do.
    Hmm how would you go about sealing the hood to the airbox? This sounds very confusing. Is the process you are explaining a hard fix?

    Would you guys say that the loudmouth II is louder than a dynomax? Right now I just have a dynomax muffler but I want it louder and was hoping the loudmouth 2 would fix that.

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    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    There are some kits available, I can't remember where tho. I used some 1/2'' heater hose for the inside bottom of the hood, and some foam with adhesivie backing for the other 3 sides. It's not hard, and it looks decent. The black hose I used goes with the hood, most people don't see it unless I point it out. Not as good as some of the kits, but works ok.

    Since you're in Cali, and you want it loud, and your stock manifolds and converters are on, then I'd suggest the origianl Loudmouth, not LM2

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    Senior Member kingls1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Sorry, but I would NOT recommend a K&N air filter. The oil used on the filter gets the MAF sensor dirty, which in turn causes the signal reading actual airflow to the PCM incorrect. This results in a car that runs less than desirable. This has been proven 100's of times now. Oil also gets inside the intake.

    Like I said OP - get a regular paper air filter.
    When oiling the filter you use limited amounts of oil and let it sit it will soak into the element evenly, I have used K&N filters for years and have never had any issues on any vehicle! If your using a paper filter I wouldn't wast money on a lid what is more air do for you if you cut it off before it ever enters the motor! Like others have said do your homework and know what your looking to get from your mods before you spend the money...

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    Lid, catback, subframe and go from there

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingls1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Sorry, but I would NOT recommend a K&N air filter. The oil used on the filter gets the MAF sensor dirty, which in turn causes the signal reading actual airflow to the PCM incorrect. This results in a car that runs less than desirable. This has been proven 100's of times now. Oil also gets inside the intake.

    Like I said OP - get a regular paper air filter.
    When oiling the filter you use limited amounts of oil and let it sit it will soak into the element evenly, I have used K&N filters for years and have never had any issues on any vehicle! If your using a paper filter I wouldn't wast money on a lid what is more air do for you if you cut it off before it ever enters the motor! Like others have said do your homework and know what your looking to get from your mods before you spend the money...
    With more air coming in through the filter there's more dirt coming in also. Look at the comparison between K&N and other filters as far as how well they keep debris out. There have been many studies on it. A few in-depth threads on here even.

    A lid removes the baffles/resonator for more direct air flow..that's the biggest advantage.

    I could be wrong though.

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    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingls1 View Post
    When oiling the filter you use limited amounts of oil and let it sit it will soak into the element evenly, I have used K&N filters for years and have never had any issues on any vehicle! If your using a paper filter I wouldn't wast money on a lid what is more air do for you if you cut it off before it ever enters the motor! Like others have said do your homework and know what your looking to get from your mods before you spend the money...
    Jeff, it's been proven many times over that the K&N filter for our F-body LS1 set-up shows no gains. Now a lid, on the other hand, has proven 8-10 HP gains many times over. Now other vehicle set-ups, no doubt the K&N works better than OE. Go to the track and find out for yourself.

    The lid design removes the side baffles (noise silencers) for better airflow. Personal experience at the track showed no difference for ET, or MPH at the 1/4 mile dragstrip, when I tested with the K&N, new quality paper air filter, and no filter whatsoever. This was after my lid install.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    There are some kits available, I can't remember where tho. I used some 1/2'' heater hose for the inside bottom of the hood, and some foam with adhesivie backing for the other 3 sides. It's not hard, and it looks decent. The black hose I used goes with the hood, most people don't see it unless I point it out. Not as good as some of the kits, but works ok.

    Since you're in Cali, and you want it loud, and your stock manifolds and converters are on, then I'd suggest the origianl Loudmouth, not LM2
    I heard that the LMI is pretty loud and raspy, but is it obnoxiously loud? You know what I think im just going to either look for a kit or not do it, making it myself seems complicated.

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    There are enough catback systems on the market for these cars to make your head spin. You just have to choose the sound you prefer. All the 3" systems will perform about the same, just different noise levels.

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    Based on my own personal experience of hearing both the LM1 and owning the LM2, I personally prefer the LM2 sound. Sounds more like muscle to me. Not obnoxious and a nice, deep tone cruising around.

    Problem with me at least is that the longer you own a loud exhaust, the more you get used to the sound and before you know it, you're looking to make it more aggressive. Kind of like the power itch. It's never ending. This is why a lot of people go for the Magnaflow with an electric cut-out. Best of both worlds.

    Like some others have said though, exhaust really is purely personal preference. What some love, others hate. You can always sell it if you don't like it

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