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Aircraft blue fuel 110 octane

This is a discussion on Aircraft blue fuel 110 octane within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by dus10euler Actually the blue avgas youre talking about is 100 octane rating with a low lead concentration. ...

  1. #21
    Member Fastcar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dus10euler View Post
    Actually the blue avgas youre talking about is 100 octane rating with a low lead concentration. I fuel airplanes and we have run lawn mowers and cars on this stuff, I have not tried it in newer fi cars, but I know people that have run a mixture of avgas with no problems
    However, ANY lead means eventual death for the catalytic converters! Low lead just makes it take a little longer...

    Also, Rare99Firehawk, the lead additive used in gasoline is/was tetraethyl lead - that's why in ye olden daze the "good" high octane gas was called "Ethyl", in reference to the additive. Lead served two purposes: it boosted the octane rating of the gas and it served as a lubricant for the valves against the valve seat. Once cars switched over to unleaded gas, car & engine manufacturers hardened the valve seats to resist the wear that the lead was helping to prevent. As long as you're not running cats or O2 sensors, the lead shouldn't harm the mechanicals of the ENGINE itself.
    Last edited by Fastcar; 05-05-2007 at 10:49 PM. Reason: added info

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    Senior Member greatwhiteZ28's Avatar
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    what if your not running cats, what will it attack then

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    A properly tuned car will realize little to no gains at all from racing fuels or octane boosters.
    Now you tune your car to say 105 octane and put 93 in it....it will not perform.....the same is true in reverse...you optimize and tune your car to run on pump gas...and then throw in racing gas/aviation fuel/octane boosters....it will not perform to optimum....your asking for pre ignition/knock/fuel system issues/injector issues and who knows what else.
    Tune your ride to one or the other and leave it be.
    This is my signature. It is mine. Nobody else has one like it.

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    Member danziger's Avatar
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    It won't hurt anything to run race gas on a stock engine (as long as it is unleaded), but it will be a waste of money. The higher octane is more resistant to combustion, so is less efficient. Also many types of race gas don't have much in the way of detergent additives. I like to run a little high-octane fuel when I am going to be spraying...just to ward off any chance of detonation.

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    Member Fastcar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhiteZ28 View Post
    what if your not running cats, what will it attack then
    O2 sensors. But if you're cat-less, you're probably running O2 sims so it shouldn't make any difference.

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    100LL aviation gas will kill O2 sensors and cats a lot quicker than you'd think. No big deal on the cats, big deal on your O2 sensors.

    We can buy 114 unleaded at a few pumps here, it's basically a mixture of toluene, xylene, diesel and additives.

    Toluene 114
    Xylene 117

    Yes, you can buy the above at a professional paint store in drums but mixing race fuel is a science in itself. Your engine expects a bit of the heavier components for piston wall lubrication thus the reason we try to include some diesel and Marvel Mystery oil for lack of no better. We're of course talking engines with over 12:1 compression NA - you would be wasting your money on trying to burn rocket fuel.

    Find a good supplier of high octane pump gas - unleaded - and keep a close monitor on your KR. My guess is unless you're really pushing the limits of your engine a blend of race + regular pump gas will find a 95 or so median as the point where KR sticks at or near -0-.

    You have no reason to feed any more octane into an engine than it requires not to predetonate, higher octane fuels actually burn slower and will rob you of power if the engine can't take advantage of them. Your PCM will only pull the timing back so far, find it and stick with it.

    Unless you're highly modified, or don't have the right plugs, you need to be looking at better ways of reducing KR as in cooler intake temps and better exhaust flow.

    As to exhaust flow chunking some 4" Ford diesel pipes on there isn't the answer, you want it tuned.

    I'm sure someone will elaborate on this.

  7. #27
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    Just a heads up -- 100LL aviation gas is labeled LL for low lead -- but that means low lead compared to 80 octane avgas and other grades. It's still got a very high lead content, more than auto gas used to have. It's not really low lead. It will ruin catalytic converters and O2 sensors, and eventually foul plugs.

    More about that here:
    http://www.generalaviationnews.com/e...ature&-nothing

    The octane numbers are measured/published differently for autos than for aviation. There is a comparison at the end of the article. The MON numbers (Motor Octane Numbers) he is talking about are the octane numbers used in aviation, always the first, lower number when two are given. His comparison shows that 100 octane aviation fuel is higher octane than any pump auto gas.

    There's no need for higher octane unless your compression ratio / cam combo has you knocking on premium gas. As Steve says above.

    By the way, those Motor Octane Numbers are measured in a test engine with variable compression. Our stock motors are made to be able to survive running low octane gas with timing pulled, and run normally on premium gas with optimal timing. Stock tunes leave a little room for some more timing. But preignition is not the same as detonation. And the octane rating vs compression is to prevent detonation. If you get detonation at full power, your pistons' lifetimes are measured in seconds. So, not to worry too much about octane unless you built your motor from the ground up to not be able to live on pump gas. Or unless you pulled your LS1 and put in a built 426 Hemi, hehe.

    From a pilot and someone who built valve seat hardening machines.

    --97T--

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    Most people don't understand the difference between preignition and predetonation. Allow me to put it simplly:

    Predetonation is when the compression is high enough that it all goes off without a spark - as it does in a diesel engine.

    Preignition is when you've got a hot spot somewhere that fires things off prematurely.

    Am I correct or do I need to get back to sleep?

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    member kwade's Avatar
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    If you go 13 to 1 compression or higher,you may need the 100 and up octane gas.It usually stops the "pinging" caused low octane(93).If your not running high compression,your throwing your money away!

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    It's not really about the source of ignition, it's about whether you get a controlled burn or an explosion. Cylinder pressures and temperatures are much higher under detonation, and it happens if you lean out too much as well.

    --97T--

  11. #31
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    I run 93 octane in my car every time I fill up. Even with the good stuff I could hear my valves when I gased it a bit in OD. I put in 108 actane boost and it went away. I have been using BP gas but am about to try a different brand because 93 octane shouldnt be making the valves do that when I gas it in OD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEADBYDAWN View Post
    I run 93 octane in my car every time I fill up. Even with the good stuff I could hear my valves when I gased it a bit in OD. I put in 108 actane boost and it went away. I have been using BP gas but am about to try a different brand because 93 octane shouldnt be making the valves do that when I gas it in OD.
    What does "hear my valves" mean? Are you talking about pre-ignition/detonation? I've found Amoco (at BP) to be a pretty good fuel. You may have other issues, such as carbon build-up, PCV problems etc...

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