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air lid and maf question

This is a discussion on air lid and maf question within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Again, a MAF is a pointless mod that for boltons guys (or almost anyone), setting the AFR the same before ...

  1. #21
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Again, a MAF is a pointless mod that for boltons guys (or almost anyone), setting the AFR the same before and after will SHOW a zero gain on the dyno. Just like that SLP bubble bellow.... never seen a gain on the dyno or even seen one posted but I have seen them make lids fit miserably.

    Without tuning they will screw up your fueling and almost certainly cost you HP at WOT.

  2. #22
    Member slpcamaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Again, a MAF is a pointless mod that for boltons guys (or almost anyone), setting the AFR the same before and after will SHOW a zero gain on the dyno. Just like that SLP bubble bellow.... never seen a gain on the dyno or even seen one posted but I have seen them make lids fit miserably.

    Without tuning they will screw up your fueling and almost certainly cost you HP at WOT.
    So far gas seems to be about the same and I've been pushing it ever since I installed it last week to see if theres a difference. I'd have to say there is a power difference or my friends have forgot how to race. I go to the races around here on the weekened not track so no times but my friends that use to sit with me don't anymore I'm sure its more from the lid then the maf but only dyno will tell. I'll bring stock and see if i see a difference when I go in a few weeks getting a group together to go dyno get it cheaper that way. he is correct lip doesn't fit as good as stock but fits fine and not hard to install you will see a difference just don't take that screen off whatever you decide with the maf but in all if you put the whole system in and tune it I'm sure you won't lose anything I havn't lost any gas mileage and people will argue all day long about how much you'll get out of it but with the whole system I did feel a difference more importantly saw a difference when racing.

  3. #23
    Member slpcamaro's Avatar
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    frost is right just changing the maf won't give you anything the way to go is to get the system and then tune it don't tune then install. If you put the slp cold air set up and their maf (190 buck for maf) and tune you'll be good and happy with what you paid for again he's right just the maf won't do anything. Don't pop that screen off though if this is your daily drive if it's just a track car then that's another story.

  4. #24
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    I just don't like the stuff because of the cost per HP return that most of the SLP stuff generates.

    $500 gets you stainless headers and ORY off of eBay. That's about the same cost as the SLP induction package... $350 gets you an LS6 intake shipped.... can see where I am going.

  5. #25
    Member slpcamaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    I just don't like the stuff because of the cost per HP return that most of the SLP stuff generates.

    $500 gets you stainless headers and ORY off of eBay. That's about the same cost as the SLP induction package... $350 gets you an LS6 intake shipped.... can see where I am going.
    I totally agree slp is a little expensive and you can get the same out of the headers and ls6 intake infact i plan on doing that. i was just saying as far as if your gonna end up doing everything and he wanted to start there it's not a bad place to start and when he does add on the headers and ls6 intake later all the mods will help get more out of every mod. Slp is a little expensive but i think it works pretty good i mean this is what slp is know for not for mustangs and for being good for all cars there known for our cars so they do pretty good but I'm still new to working on cars to and the slp kit took me about 45mins to figure and put together and i did it at night in the dark so pretty simple but you will get more out of some heads but not that easy for him to put on by himself and if you follow the instructions it seals very good and fits pretty good too.

  6. #26
    Member slpcamaro's Avatar
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    as we where speaking of tuning later i did just add those items and would like to get a tune any suggestions for places around san jose/ santa clara Ca some really bad shops here so i'm not just taking it anywhere

  7. #27
    F BODYS RULE maxwax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slpcamaro View Post
    quick question did you have the rest of the slp set up of just the maf imho if you don't have the lid and sleeve it might run rich because there made to work together so if you have stock lid your not sucking up enough air just my thoughts i'm no mechanic but makes sense to me and DON'T TAKE THE SCREEN OFF seriously things do get by the air filter even with stock set up I've taken a few things off the screen that it snagged instead of blowing in the engine the 1hp if that you get from removing the screen ask yourself is it worth the rish really i'm sure you could drive on it for long time and be fine but do you really want to risk your motor for 1hp get the slp set up you don't like it ebay it or craigslist it for almost the same you got it for no harm or foul take that screen off it sucks something up and you have to open up your block not fun.

    Sorry about spelling and grammer and that all being on sentence on a pda screens to small to worry about that stuff
    First things first , without spelling check, I don't think most people who post would sound half as educated as they seem. so don't worry about spelling .

    As for the mass air, the first one I tried was for a 98 through 2000, and was horrible on my 2002, I bought it off E BAY it was supposed to be for an 02 but after running the s/number I found out it was for th 98-00, technically I did not replace it for a performance gain, my old one had been modified before I purchaced the car and I was having overly rich conditions above 3000rpm's
    so the used SLP was cheaper off e-bay than a new GM part, but wen the problems were made worse, I bought a used one off of a wrecked 2002 SS and installed it, major success, it worked great and it just happened to have ported ends on it , which I replaced with a factory set with the screen still intact, and my bellow ,I made myself with a plumbing boot, which works great I also made all the free air mods,and the SLP lid, I have bought and installed a new SLP mass air and had a dyno session in which I tuned my car myself with HP tuners pro, and with no headers, a flow-master, K&N , no cats tr-6 plugs and the above mods, I made 345 RWHP and 361 RWT , I ave a N.O.S wet kit 75hp to 150 kit, so I dont mind a little rich condition.
    ported mass air, plumbing tube and SLP lid. I installed on a friends 2000 ss camaro

    ported compared to factory.

    The plumbing boot.

    the free air mod.

  8. #28
    F BODYS RULE maxwax's Avatar
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    And here are some pics of my set up
    when I first bought the lid K&N and home made bellow

    Slp MAF lid bellow free air mods and K&N


    thunder racing ends

  9. #29
    Member jujofields's Avatar
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    IMO, definitely get a lid...I have a SLP lid on mine & the SLP smooth bellows...the lid esp. will increase hp. Stick with your stock MAF! It's a waste of money to purchase an aftermarket MAF & has been known to even cost you some hp. I wouldn't recommend descreening the MAF, especially if this is your daily driver. Like someone posted earlier, the only time you should probably descreen the MAF would be if you're using the car for strictly racing. Free mods are a good, virtually no-cost, way to go: porting/polishing your throttle body, a throttle body bypass, modding your TB so it opens a full 90 degrees at WOT, etc. etc. Also, a 160 degree thermostat is relatively cheap to purchase aftermarket, or you can easily mod your stock thermostat to make it 160 degrees...

  10. #30
    Member slpcamaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwax View Post
    And here are some pics of my set up
    when I first bought the lid K&N and home made bellow
    Click for full size
    Slp MAF lid bellow free air mods and K&N
    Click for full size
    Click for full size
    thunder racing ends
    Click for full size
    Nice idea I'd have to say this is one of the best forums sites I've tried a few other ones and whenever I was posting all I would get back would be some stupid thing about putting periods in between sentences and would never get any help sorry just wanted to say thank you guys because I'm still learning a lot.

  11. #31
    Member slpcamaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jujofields View Post
    IMO, definitely get a lid...I have a SLP lid on mine & the SLP smooth bellows...the lid esp. will increase hp. Stick with your stock MAF! It's a waste of money to purchase an aftermarket MAF & has been known to even cost you some hp. I wouldn't recommend descreening the MAF, especially if this is your daily driver. Like someone posted earlier, the only time you should probably descreen the MAF would be if you're using the car for strictly racing. Free mods are a good, virtually no-cost, way to go: porting/polishing your throttle body, a throttle body bypass, modding your TB so it opens a full 90 degrees at WOT, etc. etc. Also, a 160 degree thermostat is relatively cheap to purchase aftermarket, or you can easily mod your stock thermostat to make it 160 degrees...
    I got the slp 85mm maf what would you suggest I wanted to do something with the throttle body next wasn't sure what size to go with and what the slp smooth bellows would fit with. Also how to you get the TB to open up 90%, and lastly I forced a flex-a-lite 15inch fan on my radiator it has a control switch I have it set to turn on right after the temp mark inbetween 160 and 210 I guess thats around what 185% I did that because I noticed when moving the car stays just under that line and didn't think there was a point in having the fan on before that and wasn't sure if the it'd be good for the fan to be blowing when i'm doing 80 down the freeway if the cars that cool would it be ok for the fan to make it so it kicks on earlier?

  12. #32
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Yeah I wasn't trying to sound like a hater, just seen MAFs screw up fueling and have NEVER seen them fix it. Of course, if you are tuning and you build a nice new curve then all is well.

    I tuned a car with an 85mm truck MAF the other day and it's scale is WAAAYYYYY different than ours. Once it was remapped, his 440rwhp M6 car (with 9") was on the NEXT TO THE LAST CELL on the frequency axis. This put his previously tuned car into the 8-9s:1 AFR range. Who knows where it was really since that is well beneath the measurement cutoff point. That's right, with just some slightly cooler air, his car will be maxxing out that 85mm "bigger" MAF.

  13. #33
    Member 2-bowties&abird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    MAF ends blow too, they ruin the curve of the factory MAF and if you start with an AFR and retune for the same after the ends you will see a big fat zero gain on the rollers from them. They will cause very high LTFTs (over +10%) which will lockin and overfuel your WOT pulls which will actually cost you power.

    I just don't get it; why do so many people jump on the "mod-the-MAF" bandwagon? You must realize that ANY change to the MAF will cause SIGNIFICANT FUELING CHANGES. You don't jump into your PCM and randomly jack the MAF table around, or go try and get your fuel pressure cranked up or down, yet when you screw around with the MAF you are doing the same thing. People KNOW that the MAF is a calibrated means of measuring air and they STILL mess around with them.

    If more than one or two people have been able to make over 500rwhp with H/C/I on STOCK engines through their STOCK DESCREENED MAFs, why do all of the boltons guys go straight for these things? The real killer is those people that get their car tuned and THEN swap the MAF and ruin their tune...

    Sorry guys, I'll climb down off of my now
    dammit frost will you just take a look into whats going on with my car? haha lol.

  14. #34
    Internet Tough Guy Fury_786's Avatar
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    I run a lid, free air mods, K&N, SLP MAF, 85mm TB.

    with headers you NEED a BIG intake.

    otherwise all the exhaust work wont breathe

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fury_786 View Post
    I run a lid, free air mods, K&N, SLP MAF, 85mm TB.

    with headers you NEED a BIG intake.

    otherwise all the exhaust work wont breathe
    yeah i'm sure with an ls6 intake and slp lid i should be in the 370rwhp range.

  16. #36
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    it makes a huge difference. my bottom end suffered a little, but when it gets to about 3500 she turns it on!

  17. #37
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Boltons that make power on the dyno and a difference in the 1/4 mile for STOCK CAMMED AND HEADS CARS include (and my personal choice of order, which is just a preference):

    1. lid
    2. catback
    3. headers & Y pipe
    4. Stall if the car is an A4
    5. LS6 intake (if car is a 98-00)
    6. UD pulley
    7. Electric water pump

    Notice there are no MAFs, PTBs or aftermarket TBs, rain-pipe ram airs, coils, etc.

  18. #38
    Internet Tough Guy Fury_786's Avatar
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    my car is all stock inside and im not running an UD pulley or elect. pump. but it'll run a 7.64 in the 1/8th

    thats about $7-800 your talking about that cant be good for like 25hp?

  19. #39
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fury_786 View Post
    my car is all stock inside and im not running an UD pulley or elect. pump. but it'll run a 7.64 in the 1/8th

    thats about $7-800 your talking about that cant be good for like 25hp?
    that's why they are at the end of the list of "boltons that matter".....

  20. #40
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    FWIW, on back to back pulls on 2 cars, I have made 1-2 more RWHP with a stock NAPA paper filter than a very clean and very lightly oiled K&N filter. The second drawback to the K&N is the oil that pulls through them over time and coats the MAF's wire. This leans the car out a bit as it insulates the wire. When you clean the filter, try to stay light on the oil and remember to clean the MAF with some electrical cleaner (they sell it labeled MAF cleaner now too) to be sure it doesn't affect you.

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