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2000 Grand Prix brake lights

This is a discussion on 2000 Grand Prix brake lights within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I figured that posting the pics required something like that...but being at work figured I better not get so involved. ...

  1. #21
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    metallic burgandy
    '00Pont Grand PrixGT

    I figured that posting the pics required something like that...but being at work figured I better not get so involved. Maybe this weekend at home

  2. #22
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    metallic burgandy
    '00Pont Grand PrixGT

    Well..
    I got ALOT of stuff fixed on this thing, but...wife said it bogs and hesitates lately. About a year ago we had the transmission dropped and solenoids replaced. It got "scanned" then and I was told it needed a mass airflow sensor replaced. I let it go until recently. When buying a new MAF sensor, the parts guy said to try a can of aerosol MAF cleaner before replacing the expensive sensor. So I did. Now when "scanned" at the trans shop, I was told no MAF code shown, but catalytic convertor needs to replaced. I have been pricing parts and getting that replaced, but still wonder/worry how to be certain this is whats bad...??? Tech at trans shop says code specifically says cat is bad. I have to wonder if it couldn't be an oxygen sensor or how the engine computer would be able to realize that?? Car does have 150,000 miles and the bogging hesitation get worse as it gets hotter etc, so the symptoms seem to add up, just wondering if anything else to check or try first...
    THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!!

  3. #23
    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
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    Both the MAF and Cat converter occasionally go bad on these cars. In fact I just replaced a MAF on my friends 02 Grand Prix 3 or 4 weeks ago. It was bogging and hesitating.
    As far as the cat code, the reason why it is 99% certain the cat is bad when it sets a code for it, is because that means the diagnostic test for the O2 sensor has already passed. That tests "proves" the O2 sensor is operating ok. The computer then moves on and test the cat converter for proper operation by monitoring the rear O2 sensor and compares its output and compares it to what it is supposed to be.

  4. #24
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    metallic burgandy
    '00Pont Grand PrixGT

    THANKS for that. I feel much better knowing the "test" you describe. Must be the 1% though could be the rear sensor mis-reading? Or do the O2 sensors usually fall far enough out of parameters to show up as totally bad, rather than just off enough to look like a cat?
    Looks like I will be hitting NAPA for a cat and I imagine studs kit(s) and gaskets.
    One exhaust shop I called mentioned they may not be able to get the old O2 sensor out of the cat's pipe. Wondering if I should grab one of those too, just in case...

    BIG THANKS

  5. #25
    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rschap1 View Post
    One exhaust shop I called mentioned they may not be able to get the old O2 sensor out of the cat's pipe. Wondering if I should grab one of those too, just in case...

    BIG THANKS
    Yep thats pretty common on all cars/truck. Sometimes those O2 just weld themselves in there and there isn't anything you can do to get them out sucessfully. Plus a brand new sensor is a good idea anyways.

  6. #26
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    metallic burgandy
    '00Pont Grand PrixGT

    Dropped off the car last night. Neighbor suggested his mechanic. Guy has quite a set up right at his home. Says $250 he can install a newly released DynaFlow direct fit convertor. Saw these on Ebay for about $190 plus s/h. Figured he was scanning and installing for less than $50. I'll see how this goes. Almost too good to be true. Says he has all the latest scan tools and updates he needs to diagnose properly, oxygen sensors on the shelf and good to go. If things go well, I may ask him to lok at the second strut mount I need replaced and maybe even my new (to me, 2004) Expedition. LOTS of "road noise" type of sound. The Nokian Vatiiva tires were blamed by the seller, but I am pretty suspicious of something in the driveline, hubs, or wheel bearings. But thats down the list...
    THANKS once more for the advice!!

  7. #27
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    metallic burgandy
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    Back again...
    Started driving the Grand Prix myself now. Had it scanned by a couple mechanics, but not sure what to do next. Been told it needs a new catalytic convertor, mass airflow sensor, and oxygen sensors. First it was suggested that the upstream O2 sensor in the exhaust manifold gets replaced. So I did that. Still a little doggy now and then and "surging" under mid throttle acceleration. So I put in a new MAF sensor yesterday. First it wouldn't idle. Had to give it alot of throttle to keep running, drove around block, and it seemed to "learn" to idle after that. Surging seemed a bit worse with new MAF. After my hour long drive home in 92 degree air temps yesterday, it didn't want to start or idle again after parking for 1/2 hour and still hot. Thinking my next step might be to get it scanned again? Replace convertor and/or downstream O2 sensor. Mechanics that have looked at and scanned car disagree on whether the convertor is OK or clogged. Saved that for last since it is the biggest and most expensive job. As I think about biting the bullet and sticking a new one on there, I recall my 1995 Bronco. When I thought of headers and exhaust for that I found "test" pipes to eliminate convertors and small wiring connectors that took away the need for the downstream/after convertor 2nd oxygen sensor. Can something like this be done on a 2000 Grand Prix 3800?? Ebay had the little plug ins for the Bronco cheap and they let you run w/o SES light lit, and truck ran OK without the extra sensor or convertor. I know last weekend we saw a TON of built Grand Prixs and GTPs w/o any convertors all built up! There must be a way. Anyone familiar? I know I was shown a Monte site and may try post there too. THANKS for any help, ideas, suggestions!!!

  8. #28
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    The 3800 does'nt need the rear or down stream 02 to opperate properly also the ebay or ANY 02 simulators are usually junk and may only work for a short time if @ all then there will be a SES light again for cat efficientcy.. Best to have the rear 02 tuned out or just live with the light. However depending on where you live it won't pass inspection with a SES light.. The other thing I see as I read through the posts is you keep skipping the cat change out.. I know it seems pricey but until you get the exhaust flowing correctly you're most likely going to keep having idle surge and other engine issues.. If the cat is clogged or internally damaged it will/can have effects all the way back up stream to the 2 front 02's.. Since the front 02's have an effect on AFR's (air fuel ratio).. You may even have replaced your MAF prematurely.. When you replaced your MAF, did you diconnect the battery? Never a good idea to just plug stuff in when the harness is "live".. Start by pulling the battery terminals and let it sit for say 5min. Then reconnect the batt and then do an idle relearn.. Again the relearn will still be contingent on whether the exhaust is flowing within proper perameters.. Meaning it may never learn to idle properly with a faulty cat and flow being impeeded.. Also with the mileage you've stated on the engine the front 02's could also be starting to crap out.. Impeeded exhaust flow can excellerate thier death as well.. Good luck.. If you need more let us know..
    Last edited by Smittro; 09-01-2010 at 07:57 AM.
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  9. #29
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    metallic burgandy
    '00Pont Grand PrixGT

    I had thought about un doing the battery but did not. I did just unplug and remove the old (original) and plugged in the new, re started the car. I wondered if that would reset the fuel map to default/original or what would happen. This is my second day driving the car now, 150+ miles with new MAF sensor installed. Any point in pulling the battery power now? My first attempt at fixing this was the upstream O2 sensor, so that is only a month or so old. With the conflicting diagnosis-es I was getting from different mechanics who scanned the car, I have been taking the most popular, easiest, and cheapest choices of what it may take to fix it. I figured that the convertor would be the last of these "options". I don't mind wrenching on my own stuff too awful much but sure didn't want to wrestle under the car, torch off and replace old manifold studs, replace the convertor and then find out car drove same. Close to what I am doing now, just replacing parts hit and miss. Plan was for a MagnaFlow direct fit convertor IF needed. Looking more like that. Seeing those at about $185 different places online and local sources. I would really like to ensure that I have all the studs, hardware, seals, gaskets. spring bolts, etc when/if I do replacement. Kinda like the idea of just a straight "test" pipe if possible (I live in Michigan w/o any emission test needed), but don't want to make the car run poorly.

    So, THANKS for the disconnect battery tip. I knew from the get go that the MAF may or may not be the fix, but took the chance hoping it was cheaper/easier then the convertor. Now jsut wondering if I am going to have to do that anyhow...
    BIG THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very much appreciate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #30
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rschap1 View Post
    I had thought about un doing the battery but did not. I did just unplug and remove the old (original) and plugged in the new, re started the car. I wondered if that would reset the fuel map to default/original or what would happen. This is my second day driving the car now, 150+ miles with new MAF sensor installed. Any point in pulling the battery power now? My first attempt at fixing this was the upstream O2 sensor, so that is only a month or so old. With the conflicting diagnosis-es I was getting from different mechanics who scanned the car, I have been taking the most popular, easiest, and cheapest choices of what it may take to fix it. I figured that the convertor would be the last of these "options". I don't mind wrenching on my own stuff too awful much but sure didn't want to wrestle under the car, torch off and replace old manifold studs, replace the convertor and then find out car drove same. Close to what I am doing now, just replacing parts hit and miss. Plan was for a MagnaFlow direct fit convertor IF needed. Looking more like that. Seeing those at about $185 different places online and local sources. I would really like to ensure that I have all the studs, hardware, seals, gaskets. spring bolts, etc when/if I do replacement. Kinda like the idea of just a straight "test" pipe if possible (I live in Michigan w/o any emission test needed), but don't want to make the car run poorly.

    So, THANKS for the disconnect battery tip. I knew from the get go that the MAF may or may not be the fix, but took the chance hoping it was cheaper/easier then the convertor. Now jsut wondering if I am going to have to do that anyhow...
    BIG THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very much appreciate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Well if you don't have to get it emissions tested I'd yank the cat and forget it.. It will throw a cat code but will NOT hurt it's performance one bit.. I removed mine in my 01 y87 3800-II Camaro and gained a couple crank HP.. Got better MPGs (tho I don't really care about mpgs just was curious), better launch, and gained just enough torque to get her sideways on dry black top from a dig with the ASR turned off. Saddly I had to putt a cat back on it for emmissions @ which time after a few startup cycles the code cleared/clears..

    To the battery disconnect thing.. If you're not getting MAF codes and if it is now idleing fine then there is really no reason to reset the ECM.. You prolly got lucky.. Sometimes plugging a sensor into live wire harnesses can cause issues with voltage @ the ECM.. But again till you either ditch the cat or replace it, it's going to be hit or miss as far as accurately diagnosing the issues it having.. There really should'nt be a conflict in diagnosies when the use of a proper scanner shows various issues being logged by the ECM.. Each issue that comes up should be addressed then the code cleared.. Then you can move on to the next issue and so on.. Good luck..

    V6's are kinda my thing If you need anything I can help with I will.. Good luck..
    Last edited by Smittro; 09-01-2010 at 11:52 AM.

  11. #31
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    metallic burgandy
    '00Pont Grand PrixGT

    Well, it seems like its finally fixed. Installed a new MagnaFlow convertor Saturday morning. Less than $150 and it went on WAY better than I feared. I had stud kit for the manifold, but didn't need it, new bolts for the exit end, didn't need those either. The Only issue was the downstream O2 sensor. The new pipe has it placed horizontal instead of vertical. Points towards the passenger side instead of upwards. I can see how the flow is LOTS better since the pipe stays round instaed of "squashed" like the factory. BUT there's really not enough clearance for the sensor to be positioned like it is. Sort of like they moved the threaded bung from noon/12 o'clock position, to 3 o'clock and it "bumps" into the floor pan "trans tunnel" area. I put a hose clamp around one the HD o-ring rubber hangers to pull it towards the driver's side to keep it from banging on the floor. I tried "massaging" the floor with a BIG hammer but couldn't really get enough room to eliminate the need for the clamp. Still tight, just barely enough room to keep from banging the end of the sensor. Is there such a thing as a SHORT O2 sensor???
    Also, I got an old clogged convertor hanging around now, I see alot of ads saying places want to buy these, anyone ever get anything for them? THANKS again. The advice helped convince me to replace the convertor. I should have/ would have done it sooner instead of buying replacing the other sensors. THANKS!!!

  12. #32
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    metallic burgandy
    '00Pont Grand PrixGT

    Short Oxygen sensors?? Or has anyone ever saw an adapter or anything to re position it? a 90 degree fitting type of deal??

    Thanks

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by rschap1 View Post
    Well, it seems like its finally fixed. Installed a new MagnaFlow convertor Saturday morning. Less than $150 and it went on WAY better than I feared. I had stud kit for the manifold, but didn't need it, new bolts for the exit end, didn't need those either. The Only issue was the downstream O2 sensor. The new pipe has it placed horizontal instead of vertical. Points towards the passenger side instead of upwards. I can see how the flow is LOTS better since the pipe stays round instaed of "squashed" like the factory. BUT there's really not enough clearance for the sensor to be positioned like it is. Sort of like they moved the threaded bung from noon/12 o'clock position, to 3 o'clock and it "bumps" into the floor pan "trans tunnel" area. I put a hose clamp around one the HD o-ring rubber hangers to pull it towards the driver's side to keep it from banging on the floor. I tried "massaging" the floor with a BIG hammer but couldn't really get enough room to eliminate the need for the clamp. Still tight, just barely enough room to keep from banging the end of the sensor. Is there such a thing as a SHORT O2 sensor???
    Also, I got an old clogged convertor hanging around now, I see alot of ads saying places want to buy these, anyone ever get anything for them? THANKS again. The advice helped convince me to replace the convertor. I should have/ would have done it sooner instead of buying replacing the other sensors. THANKS!!!
    I don't know about any "short" 02's.. But I can say it sounds like you may have to cut the section then rotate it so the bung faces @ a more usable angle.. Then reconnect it.. All the more reason to just have the rear 02/s deleted...
    Last edited by Smittro; 09-07-2010 at 05:53 AM.

  14. #34
    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
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    One possible solution is to buy an O2 sensor plug like pictured below. Then you have a new O2 sensor bung welded in at a different location nearby (maybe like the 4 O'clock position) and install the sensor in the new bung and plug the old hole




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