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wheel stand

This is a discussion on wheel stand within the Drag Racing forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Originally Posted by shady milkman then you are in the wrong hobby....a couple of tenths is huge no... he meant ...

  1. #21
    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    then you are in the wrong hobby....a couple of tenths is huge
    no... he meant that to him it would be worth it... not the act of it...

  2. #22
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    no... he meant that to him it would be worth it... not the act of it...
    i know..if .2-.4 seconds is worth it too show off ..competitive drag racing isnt really for you

  3. #23
    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    i know..if .2-.4 seconds is worth it too show off ..competitive drag racing isnt really for you
    some just do it for fun... but either way even if you lift the front end if you're consitent with your times then you will win...

  4. #24
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    some just do it for fun... but either way even if you lift the front end if you're consitent with your times then you will win...
    lol true.unless you are racing a car faster than you ..doesnt matter how you look..if you loose you look bad

  5. #25
    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    lol true.unless you are racing a car faster than you ..doesnt matter how you look..if you loose you look bad
    also depends on the bracket...

    ex... you say 12.9 on your window... other guy has 9.8... you run a 12.98 and the other guy runs a 9.7 you win...

  6. #26
    dbl clutch'n like i shld WICKEDLS1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    also depends on the bracket...

    ex... you say 12.9 on your window... other guy has 9.8... you run a 12.98 and the other guy runs a 9.7 you win...

  7. #27
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    also depends on the bracket...

    ex... you say 12.9 on your window... other guy has 9.8... you run a 12.98 and the other guy runs a 9.7 you win...
    also true..i tend to only go to heads up/test and tunes...my car isnt ready yet ..even tho i am dead on within .1ish every time

  8. #28
    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    I drive my car on the street with Qa1's and no front sway bar all the time. The down side to massive wheelstands like that are replacing your headers and oil pan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    I drive my car on the street with Qa1's and no front sway bar all the time. The down side to massive wheelstands like that are replacing your headers and oil pan.
    How is handling on the street without the front sway bar?

  10. #30
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    How is handling on the street without the front sway bar?
    i drive mine without the front swaybar...it is fine...it does roll a little but nothing major

  11. #31
    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    i woulnd't take the sway bar out unless you have SFC's...

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    i woulnd't take the sway bar out unless you have SFC's...
    check

  13. #33
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Anyone have any actual evidence at the track of how much of a difference removing the front sway bars helps with weight transfer in terms of ET?

  14. #34
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Anyone have any actual evidence at the track of how much of a difference removing the front sway bars helps with weight transfer in terms of ET?
    i dont..but i can tell you on stock springs and shocks...i could feel the weight transfer A LOT! ..it almost felt like the front was going to lift off the ground it seemed...now with my strano and konis ..i still get the lift..but no where as extreme

  15. #35
    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    Honestly as far as handleing I never noticed the difference at all with the front sway bar off so I just left it off. The Qa1s handle very differently. (some say bad) I'm just used now to driving with QA1s and no sway bar. I do have sfcs.

  16. #36
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Anyone have any actual evidence at the track of how much of a difference removing the front sway bars helps with weight transfer in terms of ET?
    We play with this on the classic cars all the time. You can remove the endlinks easily enough at the track or go without.

    We drive around (father and I) our cars without front sway bars all the time for years. It's not a necessity to have it on the street unless you are into corner carving.
    I ran my 70 bird in pure stock for years, and the rules required you have the front bar attached and working. When running at 7 inch bias ply tires traction is a premium, so we find ways around it, or bend the rules if you will.

    If you space the sway bar mounts away from the frame, it allows the front bar to rotate up and down more freely since you're not smashing the rubber inside the mounts,,,while still having the end links attached (as per rules)
    The front tires have a hard time moving individually because the links are still attached,,,but the bar moves up and down easily, allowing the front end to move up and down for weight transfer. Sneaky and it works,,,yet drives on the street nicely.
    If the rules don't require it,,,I completely remove the bar. Old solid bars take a good 20 lbs. off the nose.

    The key for good traction and possibly lifting the wheels is "instant center".
    Depending on the style of suspension setup you have it can be accomplished several ways. But the idea is to move the instant center (the point where upper and lower control arms cross if you draw an imaginary line) closer towards the center of the car. From the factory most cars come with the instant center way out in front of the car.
    The closer you move the instant center, the harder it hits the tires, more leverage.

    I've found that mild wheelies don't hurt ET's. I can tame my car down to the point it won't lift the tires playing with air bag pressure, but it does nothing to improve the ET's. But when I do that the issue becomes track prep. If not prepared well I run into tire spin problems and 60 foot times suffer. Going back to wheelies (hitting the tires harder) solves that issue.

    Here is a shot of my father car, a very basic suspension setup. No hop bars on the upper control arms (changing the instant center) along with air bags in the rear coil springs to adjust preload,,,,and adjustable shocks all the way around. Otherwise it's all stock 69 issue stuff. It will pull both wheels (about 6 inches on the left and 4 on the right) I can preload the right rear airbag, make the car leave straighter without twisting, to the point where it might barely pickup the left front tire at all,,,,and it does nothing to improve the ET's,,,but it will hurt 60 foot times on a slippery track.



    I've found similar results with my own car as well. So I don't buy into all that "Wheelies hurt ET's" bologna. Maybe to an extent if you reach for the sky, but for the most part wheelies are just part of weight transfer,,,comes with the territory,,,,and if you run any type of small tire class where traction is key,,,, like many do in NHRA Stock Eliminator and Super Stock Eliminator,,,,you'll see everyone of those guys pulling nice wheelies.
    For those that don't believe it,,,,hit up an NHRA event near you and you'll see nothing but wheelies in what is an extremely competative class. Those cars hook and go straight everytime,,,and go fast doing it.

  17. #37
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    To go into the whole sway bar thing a little further. It's removed on my fathers car in the pic above, hasn't been on there for years, and the car is primarily street driven, with the 90/10 shocks and all. I drive my chevelle the same way.

    It really depends on the car whether the sway bar will affect your ET. I ran consistent 1.9 60 foot times with my 02 SS on stock rubber, with the sway bar attached and functional. The car worked well enough that traction wasn't a big deal. 275/40-17 tires have alot of contact patch too and aren't that bad to hook on a good track.

    My 70 formula (per rules) had to run stock bias ply F70-14 tires with about a 7 inch contact patch. Things get a bit slippery, and in heads up racing traction is the key. So we tweak the rules. I have the sway bar trick done that I mention above, to allow more weight transfer. I also run old oil filled shocks in the front because they allow more movement (90/10's aren't allowed, and gas shocks are too stiff) I clamp the front portion of the rear leaf springs (traction bars aren't allowed) and then alot of practice. I've hit 1.8 60 foot times on those tiny slippery tires Couldn't do better than 2.1 before making those subtle suspension tweaks, and the front sway bar was alot of it.

  18. #38
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    There are also things called limiters, that basically look like jack screws on the upper control arms, you'll see these on serious track cars to limit front end travel, and they tend to settle the front ends a bit, less violent, not as much of a wheelie if you so choose. Depending on track prep you can dial in more front suspension movement.

    It's almost like running a sway bar verses no sway bar but with alot more adjustability.

  19. #39
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    ^ i never knew horse drawn carriages could do wheel stands...damn

  20. #40
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Here are some of the pure stock drags I used to play in.

    You can see in this shot of a CJ mustang how the front end is way up,,,some trickery sway bar mods (it has to be hooked up) looser shocks among other tweaks,,,all on stock goodyear polyglass tires,,,,some of these guys actually lift the wheels believe it or not.

    http://artactiongraphics.com/Track-p...9/IMG_3022.jpg

    Here is the same car in action, on stock rubber running 1.8 60 foot times.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/PureStoc...11/peRmvJ7JCNw

    Here are some other cars in pure stock, and they all have to keep the sway bar connected, and run stock bias ply tires. Pretty cool stuff. Be prepared, this is round 1 and it's a long video of all the pure stock racers.

    http://tinyurl.com/ylnqtee

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