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Traction problems HELP!!!

This is a discussion on Traction problems HELP!!! within the Drag Racing forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Hey all. Went to the track and had a few problems maybe you pros can walk me through. First I ...

  1. #1
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    2000 WS6 TA

    Traction problems HELP!!!

    Hey all. Went to the track and had a few problems maybe you pros can walk me through. First I have a full exaust, cam, cats eliminated, LS6 intake, pulleys, air box. Thats about it. Dyno says 370 to the wheels. At the track I couldn't hook at all on street tires. First and second were useless and third would spin and wheel hop till it grabbed. I realize I need some DRs or street slicks. What else can I do to help launch without breaking something. My 60 foot was in the 2.5 range and the quarter time was 13.004 at 112.8. Will a good launch increase my terminal MPH? I've been told that that MPH should be good for low 12s if not a high 11. Just wondering if the MPH will inprove with a good hookup. What have you all done to increase traction and reduce wheel hop???

  2. #2
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    Red
    1994 z28

    Sfcs. Lca's will reduce if not eliminate wheel hop. Relocation brackets especially if you're lowered. I'd start there.

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    2000 WS6 TA

    I've got the sub frame connectors and lower control arms. The SFCs need to be installed and I need a torque arm.
    Last edited by LS666; 01-11-2007 at 11:29 AM.

  4. #4
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I don't know about anyone else here, but me personally, I would look at switching the whimpy 7.5 rearend before I worry about hooking it up.
    A simple pair of drag radials will take care of that 7.5 in short order with the kind of power you are making especially with a 6 speed.
    And to answer one of your questions, yes your mph would indicate an 11 second pass easily, with a good 60.
    I am envy of you racing this time of year, I sure can't wait to move to Arizona. Larry.

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    Member silverz28camaro's Avatar
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    sebring silver
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    get the rear end girdle to strenghten yout diff, sub frome connectors, torque arm relocation bracket, rear control arms and some nice nitto 555r my 60 is 1.993 with 2.73 ratio and 305 horse now i have nitto with 2000 stall and need to take it to the track in march

  6. #6
    Member Empatho's Avatar
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    02 Z28

    traction = good ET
    no traction = good MPH

    I agree with Firebirdjones you need to worry about a rear before traction with your 6spd
    2002 Z28 Auto (3.23 gears)
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    black
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    Do you have the lca's installed? Put the sbfc's and lca's on and get a set of drag radial's. That will help a lot. And as far as the 7.5, i'd run it till it grenaded. Just hope this isn't ur daily driver and u have a way ta haul it home if it does break. If it's ur daily driver, get a 12 bolt or a 9 inch first.

  8. #8
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    dark bowling green
    2000 corvette

    stop dumping the clutch. if it spins, then let out and roll back into it.

    here's a trick i tell the manual guys to do until they get comfortable with the car.

    hold your rpms at 2200 rpms with the clutch pedal up to just before you feel it grab. when the lights come down, let out of the clutch with no input of throttle. if the tires aren't spinning, then roll into it as fast as you can without the tires breaking loose.

    if it bogs on the launch, then raise the initial rpms.

    doing it this way put less stress on the rear as well. there's no need to run out and get a better rear end just yet. i've got enough friends that pull under 1.8 60ft and run mid 11s with stock rears and manual trans. the ones that break them usually are the ones trying to do 5000+ rpm dumps with DRs.

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    I agree with mrr23. That technique works great. I used ta do the same with my old lt1 6 speed formula. When street racing I actually picked up a lot. Because when I tried dumping it at 5000+ it would spin so much, when I left at lower revs it hooked and i never had any prob with my rearend. Of course it is when it does hook is when ur gonna tear the rear out.

  10. #10
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Why would anyone be dumping the clutch at 5,000 rpms anyway? Thats hillarious and not necessary on a street car. That is reserved for mainly all out race applications anyway.
    Being a member and racer in UMTR (United Manual Transmission Racers) we run nothing but stick cars.
    I have found over the years that slipping the clutch does more harm than good. Causes more maintainance over time, overheated clutches, chatter, and so on, once the clutch is glazed over,,,it's done. Even on street tires I still pop the clutch and then modulate wheel spin with the throttle. This is much easier on the clutch.
    Tires are easier and cheaper to replace than clutches.
    No need to be dumping the clutch at 5,000 rpms with street tires. Just about any car on street tires, 2,000 rpms is plenty to spin the tires and avoid bogging. Unless the track is remarkably sticky. A stock 7.5 rear may live for a long time under these conditions.

    If you are experiencing bog problems, or running sticky tires of any sort and feel the need to dump the clutch at extreme rpms,,,,do yourself and everyone in line behind you and get a 12 bolt rear. A stock 7.5 will not last long with that kind of abuse,,,,trust me, I have broken many. Larry.

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    By lauching at higher rpm's u can get the car up into a better power range. Also if your gear high (2:73) you can usually run a better e.t. This kind of abuse will kill a 7.5 though. If you just want ta save the clutch and make it last forever than u probably don't need ta be racing it anyway. Try leaving in a 302 head, cam, bolt on's Mustang with 3:55's at 2,000 on drag radials. You'll bog the car out. Seen this a bunch. I do see what u mean Firebirdjones by wearing the clutch out. If you were bracket racing you would want the clutch ta last as long as possible and be cosistent. There are pro's and con's to leaving the line both ways. That's just from my experience and from helping a buch of my buddies with they're cars.

  12. #12
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I think my point was missed, but it's too hard to explain typing words.
    If you are bogging a 5.0 mustang with a T5 and 3.55's something else is going on. With a 3.27 first gear and 3.55's the car is only good for 30 feet. I drove one with 3.73's (not enough difference to matter much) and found first gear useless on street tires, and with stickies, dumping it at 2,500 or so was enough to still spin the slicks.

    I didn't say anything about making a clutch last forever,,,lol. But you can prolong it's lifepsan.
    Getting the car up in a better power range by dumping the clutch at higher rpms does you no good if your on street tires, your just waisting your time. High rpms launches are really only necessary if the car is hooking good, running sticky tires and the like, and at that point the 7.5 will not survive long,,,,been doing this for 20+ years, broken alot of junk. Found what works and what doesn't. When it comes to 7.5 rearends, I wouldn't bother with stickies, or excessive rpm clutch dumping,,,,it spells trouble. Larry.

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    Yea, I got ur point. I think some of the cars around this area just aren't making enough power ta leave at low rpm's with sticky tires. And yes, dumping the clutch at high rpm's on street tires is useless. I was refering ta using sticky tires. You have ta have ur chassis set up though ta hook doing that though. And of course if you hook at that kind of rpm with a 7.5 it's gonna break. Sorry if I got u confused.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Oh okay, I gotcha. We were talking about different conditions I suppose. Sorry about that. I am terrible explaining things on these computers, and probably too old to be sitting here typing on them Larry.

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    Oh no problem, it's hard ta explain stuff on the computer. U just bout have ta be there looking at what ur explaining. lol

  16. #16
    Evr sena bdgr killa snak? Roastem's Avatar
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    I hucking fate my 7.5" rear-end!

    Stickies will kill it quickly! You will have roughly as many launches as the NASA Challenger before it will grenade into sheared ring gear bolts and gear teeth. And we all know what happened to the Challenger. KAPOWWW!

    I wish I knew the GM Engineer's email who decided to put that POS rear end in the LT1, LS1 Camaro's. I would hatemail his ass 2500 times, one time for every dollar I had to drop in a new rear end.

    Now, back to the subject at hand. Every car, every setup is different. Depending on your power level, suspension mods, and tire adhesion, your method for the perfect launch will change. Spray some trackbite before launch, guess what, it just changed again.

    Trying to tell you how to launch a car without ever launching it personally, is very subjective. Kinda like telling you how to make your gf orgasm without ever meeting her. Different strokes for different folks.

    I suggest you take her (the car) out and practice whenever you come up to stoplights, and there are no cops around. Those are perfect opportunities. Hopefully where the pavement looks dark and new. Generally the darker the pavement, the stickier. I don't mean that rubber crap they spray in cracks either.

    Practice taking off hard, WITHOUT breaking traction. As you already know, this means a happy balance between clutch and pedal modulation, which is the difficult part. I suggest you do a short burnout to warm the tires up beforehand. A good'n smoky 10 ft. 4-6K rpm streak in first gear will create generous heat. Not to mention its fun as hell.

    If you are at the track, spray some trackbite in front of the rear tires after you heat 'em up, and roll into it, then spin 'em over 3-4 times. This is a lot easier in an auto. That stuff will improve your 60 ft. times, and decrease the amount of feathering the throttle. After using that stuff once I was a firm believer. Of course, you prolly won't use it in an impromptu street race. With a cam and the mods you mentioned, hopefully you can talk them into racing from a roll.

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    thanks for all the replies folks. I failed to mention that it has a set of 4.10s in rear. This makes for even a hairier launch sequence. I have some Nittos 555r's on order and have a welder friend gonna put in the SFC's for me. Now it's a matter of finding the sweet spot to launch. In the evenings it should still be in the 50s at race time so the cool air will help over all. I had a monster 454 in a 72 camaro and only had the 8.5 rear end. If you don't do stupid stuff the rear end should last a while. Would I be wasting my money on a *brain fart* rear end reinforcement differential cover thingy??

  18. #18
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    The rear support cover may help a little. It's basic function is to preload the caps and keep them from breaking. What happens is the pinion gear tries to climb up the ring gear, this action tries to push the carrier out of the back and puts tremendous pressure on the caps.
    This cover also helps dissipate heat quicker, since it's aluminum, and it holds a little more fluid as well which helps some.
    The drain and refill holes are a plus and makes life easier when it comes time for service as well. If you plan on a new 12 bolt or 9 inch though, I wouldn't spend $150 on a cover for your 7.5 rear, take that money and put it towards the new rearend.
    As far as your camaro with the 8.5 10 bolt, those are worlds apart from the 7.5 that is in your car now. Although it only sounds like a 1 inch difference in ring gear diameter, they also have the same size pinion as a 12 bolt (1.62xx I believe) and same pinion spline count. Axles are 28 spline in all of the 8.5's until around 1988 or so when they went to 30 spline.
    Although 7.5's now are also 28 spline axles, before about 1988 they were only 26.

    The 8.5's are pretty strong for what they are, and properly assembled I have seen them behind a few of the 8 second fastest street car competitors, running well into the 8's at over 150 mph. I wouldn't want to do that with a 7.5,,,lol. Enough babble,,,cheers. Larry.

  19. #19
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    I dump the clutch at the track.
    But a SPEC 5 clutch doesn't allow for much slipping.


    Torque arm isn't a requirement. Stocker can be good for 1.7 short times.
    Although if wheel hop is a problem, maybe you need a pinion angle adjustment to pre-load that rear a touch.


    Gears were killing me.
    3.42's = 2.2's
    4.11's = 1.8's
    Same tires, same wheels, different rearend. (Nitto DR's)

  20. #20
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Just practice. Practice some more. My '00 6SPD has 60000 miles now, with maybe 100 trips down the drag strip with its stock 3.42 torsen differential. I have no noise problems, with many 60 foot times in the 1.98 - 2.05 times. I don't run drag radials, I use some common sense when launching. I slip my OE clutch as much as I slip my tires. I guess it helps not having a 4.10 rear gear, I am considering that swap. My best so far without missing a shift is a 13.2x @ 107.5 and missing my shift to 4th was a 13.17 @ 101. I am hoping my headers will get me to the 12s. Even a 12.99 would still be a 12, right? Won't find out until March, when IRP opens again. Also, I am need some sfc. Then I need an LS6 intake. Then, a tune.

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