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S-Charged Cobra vs. Stock ls1 M6

This is a discussion on S-Charged Cobra vs. Stock ls1 M6 within the Drag Racing forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Old. Seen it many times. "Corvette level performance" (straightline only, of course) doesn't change the fact that there is no ...

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    Old. Seen it many times. "Corvette level performance" (straightline only, of course) doesn't change the fact that there is no Mustang that has ever been in the same class as the Corvette. Never has been, likely never will be.

    The Terminator was conceived to beat Camaro - not Corvette. Camaro disappeared before that had a chance to happen.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    Old. Seen it many times. "Corvette level performance" (straightline only, of course) doesn't change the fact that there is no Mustang that has ever been in the same class as the Corvette. Never has been, likely never will be.

    The Terminator was conceived to beat Camaro - not Corvette. Camaro disappeared before that had a chance to happen.
    That is correct. The vette was built to do many things well. Things the Mustang cannot do.

    They are 2 completely different playing fields. 2 seater sports car verses a 4 seater sedan??? Not sure how those 2 compare.

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    BANGIN GEARS>STAB N STEER BLK2KSS's Avatar
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    I have raced many 03-04 cobras and have only won a few. I have what some would call "full bolt-ons" and if I catch a stock one, which hardly ever happens, ill win but all it takes on those cars is a pulley and a tune pretty much to be much faster. stock to stock the cobra should def win.

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    Senior Member justinmc978's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    Old. Seen it many times. "Corvette level performance" (straightline only, of course) doesn't change the fact that there is no Mustang that has ever been in the same class as the Corvette. Never has been, likely never will be.

    The Terminator was conceived to beat Camaro - not Corvette. Camaro disappeared before that had a chance to happen.
    03-04 termys could pull .90 G's in lateral acceleration, base C5 vette? .93, not that much of a difference.. if SVT wanted to simply best the camaro they wouldnt have opted for the IRS or any other expensive suspension changes, i think its obvious who they were trying to give a slap to the face... regardless of having two extra seats in the back...

    now that said, for all this recent bs between GT500s and C6's its not even a slight comparison, ford took a step backwards as far as these new 'Shelbys' go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    That is correct. The vette was built to do many things well. Things the Mustang cannot do.

    They are 2 completely different playing fields. 2 seater sports car verses a 4 seater sedan??? Not sure how those 2 compare.
    4 seater sedan... hm didnt know there was a four door mustang, must have been a special edition i haven't heard about

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinmc978 View Post
    03-04 termys could pull .90 G's in lateral acceleration, base C5 vette? .93, not that much of a difference.. if SVT wanted to simply best the camaro they wouldnt have opted for the IRS or any other expensive suspension changes, i think its obvious who they were trying to give a slap to the face... regardless of having two extra seats in the back...
    You know, I could have sworn my 99 Cobra had an IRS. Why wasn't it called a "Terminator"? Was it also targeted towards the Vette? And what other "expensive changes" did the 03/04 Cobra (or any other year Cobra for that matter) have over the GT? Bit bigger brakes? Ok. Slightly different springs/struts/shocks? Ya. Slightly larger roll bar. True dat.

    With the possible exception of the brakes, these are hardly "expensive suspension changes".

    Also, numbers around a skidpad are fairly useless in real world driving OR racing. The Vette handled better, rode better, braked better, had a higher top speed, and was very close in acceleration.

    What is obvious to you is nonsense to those of us that actually know better. Get off the internet forums (especially the F-body only types if you want to learn about Mustangs) and go talk to those that actually DEVELOPED THE COBRA. Do you know em?

    I do.

    now that said, for all this recent bs between GT500s and C6's its not even a slight comparison, ford took a step backwards as far as these new 'Shelbys' go.
    Why? It is faster/quicker than the 03/04 - why is it a step back? Because it doesn't have IRS? Is that your primary metric for comparing it to the Vette?

    4 seater sedan... hm didnt know there was a four door mustang, must have been a special edition i haven't heard about
    You might want to think a bit harder. He said "4 seater", not four doors.

    Things that make you go "duh".

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanJM View Post
    I have a full bolt on A4 TA and when I had my 3.23's I raced a cobra with just magnaflows on it from a 40 roll and he was just inching me up to 130. I recently raced one with my 3.73's and a more aggresive tune, that one just had dynomax exhaust on it according to the owner and we races from 60 to about 11o side by side. Then we lined up at a red light and u easily jumped him off the line since my BFG's stick good and he spun a little and I pulled till about 70 then we were pretty even from there. My A4 is fully tuned as well so it shifts hard, fast, and runs to 6100 in every gear.
    I've also raced other f bodys with6 spd and bolt ons that used to walk away until the new tune and gears. Also took out a 2010 Ss 6 spd from 50 to 130 slowly walked away from him. I though his car would have been faster than it was.
    are you stalled????

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    Senior Member justinmc978's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    You know, I could have sworn my 99 Cobra had an IRS. Why wasn't it called a "Terminator"? Was it also targeted towards the Vette? And what other "expensive changes" did the 03/04 Cobra (or any other year Cobra for that matter) have over the GT? Bit bigger brakes? Ok. Slightly different springs/struts/shocks? Ya. Slightly larger roll bar. True dat.

    With the possible exception of the brakes, these are hardly "expensive suspension changes".

    Also, numbers around a skidpad are fairly useless in real world driving OR racing. The Vette handled better, rode better, braked better, had a higher top speed, and was very close in acceleration.

    What is obvious to you is nonsense to those of us that actually know better. Get off the internet forums (especially the F-body only types if you want to learn about Mustangs) and go talk to those that actually DEVELOPED THE COBRA. Do you know em?

    I do.
    -99 termis werent supercharged, theyre nearly even performance wise with ls1 f-bodys, the people you know should have told you that.
    -around the track, combine slightly less handling with greater acceleration, i'd say its a pretty fair fight



    Why? It is faster/quicker than the 03/04 - why is it a step back? Because it doesn't have IRS? Is that your primary metric for comparing it to the Vette?
    because the C6 has proven over and over to be a big step over the C5, whereas the cobra then was lighter than todays, and handled better(yes in large part because of the IRS) it was far ahead of its time performance wise while the cobra now is a tank, and hasnt made much progress since..


    He said "sedan".

    things that make you go "oh, i didnt catch that."
    fixed.
    Last edited by justinmc978; 04-04-2010 at 04:12 PM.

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    LOL. This is fun. I guess my main point when over your head at about the altitude of the space shuttle. But anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by justinmc978 View Post
    -99 termis werent supercharged, theyre nearly even performance wise with ls1 f-bodys, the people you know should have told you that.
    ROFLOL. No way! And all this time I thought my 99 had a blower! How silly of me!

    As for nearly even performance....eh....they could brake almost as well, and handling was close, but an LS1 F-body would still out accelerate, out corner, and out run a 99/01 Cobra. I don't have to have anybody tell me that - I've owned and raced both a 99 Cobra and an LS1 F-Body (and still own one. Oops).

    I am, however, getting a kick out of the schooling that you're providing me. Thanks!

    -around the track, combine slightly less handling with greater acceleration, i'd say its a pretty fair fight
    I'm sorry, but a C5 Vette on a race course will eat an 03/04 Cobra for lunch. The handling of the Corvette is quite a ways above "slightly" more. If you believe otherwise, ok. Enjoy your dream world.

    The irony here is that I'm a drag racer.....go figure.

    Because the C6 has proven over and over to be a big step over the C5, whereas the cobra then was lighter than todays, and handled better(yes in large part because of the IRS) it was far ahead of its time performance wise while the cobra now is a tank, and hasnt made much progress since..
    Go do some internet/magazine racing, and find me some track times of 03/04 Cobras versus a GT500. On a race course, the "band-aid" IRS that 99/01 & 03/04 Cobras came with won't be of much advantage. Perhaps you know why?

    On a bumpy street....different story.

    fixed.
    Ah, but I did catch that, and in fact, was ready for your little retort (even though it totally misses his original point - which seems to be setting a trend). To wit: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sedan

    Want to try again? I'm sure there is SOMETHING in that definition that you can pick on. Maybe I'm ready for that too? Who knows.


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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinmc978 View Post


    4 seater sedan... hm didnt know there was a four door mustang, must have been a special edition i haven't heard about

    Do you even know what "sedan" means??? It certainly doesn't mean a 4 door. I said 4 seater sedan.

    Should I post pics of a 2 door sedan verses a 2 door hardtop to show the difference?? Man I thought this was easy stuff.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 04-04-2010 at 05:06 PM.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    Ah, but I did catch that, and in fact, was ready for your little retort (even though it totally misses his original point - which seems to be setting a trend). To wit: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sedan

    Want to try again? I'm sure there is SOMETHING in that definition that you can pick on. Maybe I'm ready for that too? Who knows.


    Ha, you beat me to it. Thanks, glad someone understands the meaning.

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    Senior Member justinmc978's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Do you even know what "sedan" means??? It certainly doesn't mean a 4 door. I said 4 seater sedan.

    Should I post pics of a 2 door sedan verses a 2 door hardtop to show the difference?? Man I thought this was easy stuff.
    SAE defines a coupé as a fixed-roof automobile with less than 33 cubic feet of rear interior volume. A car with a greater interior volume is technically a two-door sedan, not a coupe, even if it has only two doors. By this standard, the Chevrolet Monte Carlo, Ferrari 612 Scaglietti, and Mercedes-Benz CL-Class coupés are all two-door sedans.

    sedans in two door form are much larger than mustangs. mustangs have always been coupes.

    9 times out of 10 irl, if your talking to another person, a sedan is a four door four seater and a coupe is a two door four seater.

    i was well aware of the definition when i brought it up

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    Senior Member justinmc978's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    LOL. This is fun. I guess my main point when over your head at about the altitude of the space shuttle. But anyway...



    ROFLOL. No way! And all this time I thought my 99 had a blower! How silly of me!

    As for nearly even performance....eh....they could brake almost as well, and handling was close, but an LS1 F-body would still out accelerate, out corner, and out run a 99/01 Cobra. I don't have to have anybody tell me that - I've owned and raced both a 99 Cobra and an LS1 F-Body (and still own one. Oops).


    I'm sorry, but a C5 Vette on a race course will eat an 03/04 Cobra for lunch. The handling of the Corvette is quite a ways above "slightly" more. If you believe otherwise, ok. Enjoy your dream world.



    Go do some internet/magazine racing, and find me some track times of 03/04 Cobras versus a GT500. On a race course, the "band-aid" IRS that 99/01 & 03/04 Cobras came with won't be of much advantage. Perhaps you know why?

    On a bumpy street....different story.

    okay so at first you ask why a 99 cobra isnt as good as a termy, i tell you, then you call me stupid for pointing out obvious reasons... and you then go on to nit pick at why f-bodies are better than 99/00 cobras, which was never an arguement to begin with, my point i guess is your changing the subject from what it originally was.. i have a paper due tmrw for debate class actually, so i cant keep this up, tmrw i'll get back on it.
    Last edited by justinmc978; 04-04-2010 at 05:36 PM.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinmc978 View Post
    SAE defines a coupé as a fixed-roof automobile with less than 33 cubic feet of rear interior volume. A car with a greater interior volume is technically a two-door sedan, not a coupe, even if it has only two doors. By this standard, the Chevrolet Monte Carlo, Ferrari 612 Scaglietti, and Mercedes-Benz CL-Class coupés are all two-door sedans.

    sedans in two door form are much larger than mustangs. mustangs have always been coupes.

    9 times out of 10 irl, if your talking to another person, a sedan is a four door four seater and a coupe is a two door four seater.

    i was well aware of the definition when i brought it up
    Not entirely true, since when did size have anything to do with it. As a matter of fact here are a couple pics to help explain the definition. As you can see,,,,,the 2 door sedan in the first pic is actually much smaller than the 2 door hardtop in the second pic.


    Here is my ventura,,,a sedan,,,as you can plainly see the frame work around the door window that stays with the door when it opens.


    And here is my chevelle,,,a hardtop, no frame work around the door windows. And for the record,,,you could also get this model as a sedan, with the frame work around the windows,,,and they were the exact same size.


    I don't care what SAE says, it's obvious size has nothing to do with it.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post

    As for nearly even performance....eh....they could brake almost as well, and handling was close, but an LS1 F-body would still out accelerate, out corner, and out run a 99/01 Cobra.

    odd...last time I tried logically explaining this to all my mustang/cobra/IRS humping friends I almost got gunned down in public lol

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamurda View Post
    The Mustang factory stock class is like this too. You look at the cars and they have minor bolt ons and then they run high 11's! Most people in a mustang can't run that with a power adder!
    I'm not familiar with the rules in the Mustang factory stock class but if they are allowing minor bolt ons it sounds a bit more leaniant or layed back.

    In our Pure Stock class, we were allowed,,,,nothing. No bolts on's what so ever. The car had to be "as built" per factory. Right down to every last casting number being correct for the particular car and HP claimed.
    So depending on which car you had, which was anything considered muscle from the 50's though the 70's, you could imagine ET's were all over the place.
    Some would purposely build a specific car for certain advantages. Others like myself just enjoyed it for what it was. I ran my 70 formula 400 ramair III automatic with 3.31 gears. Not the most advantagous combination but it ran well enough to get me pretty far in the field.
    Others ran such cars as COPO camaro's, Hemi Cudas etc....and well tuned, well driven examples were tickling the 12 second zone in Pure Stock, on bias ply rubber no less. I was running 13.60's on the F70-14's. There is more in the car, such as more gear is allowed within the rules as long as it was a factory option. I could have installed up to a 3.73 or 4.10 gear, and the car could have used it. But I didn't want to affect driveability, as I was driving several hundred miles round trip and racing too, while others trailered.

    The FAST series is where it got interesting. You still had to run all stock casting numbers per car and HP claimed, and still used the same bias ply tires, but they were stroker motors over 500 cubes, that were completely scienced out front to back, sneaky weight reduction, engines built specifically to kill bottom end torque because remember, we were still running on stock bias ply tires. These guys have managed to hit the 10's at 130 mph. No small feat considering the circumstances. Very cool to watch too.

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    Member Blue Thunder 42's Avatar
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    Question why are they called termy's?
    I run one on the hwy years back when all I had was a lid/K&N and catback exhaust. He walked me in 3rd and 4th, seemed to pull a little faster in 4th. But they had 390hp so it should pull away, but as people say "driver mod" is the most important.
    Last edited by Blue Thunder 42; 04-06-2010 at 12:51 AM.

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    The terminators cobras were designed to beat LS1 camaros in my opinion. They pulled out all of the stops in order to make the little 281 beat the 346. Terminator is a project name from the SVT guys who built the 03-04 cobra. Bad cars indeed.

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I'm not familiar with the rules in the Mustang factory stock class but if they are allowing minor bolt ons it sounds a bit more leaniant or layed back.
    NMRA Factory Stock started out in 2000 as a more or less "bolt-on" class. It quickly morphed into something far more advanced. The rules are very restrictive, but the top of the class now run high 10's to low 11's with 5.0s, 2V 4.6s, and 4V 4.6s.

    The top cars bear little in common with a stock Mustang anymore, outside of looks and base parts (engine blocks, bare cylinder heads, chassis arrangement, etc).

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    NMRA Factory Stock started out in 2000 as a more or less "bolt-on" class. It quickly morphed into something far more advanced. The rules are very restrictive, but the top of the class now run high 10's to low 11's with 5.0s, 2V 4.6s, and 4V 4.6s.

    The top cars bear little in common with a stock Mustang anymore, outside of looks and base parts (engine blocks, bare cylinder heads, chassis arrangement, etc).
    Sounds like an interesting class. Also sounds just like every class out there created initially for entry level or low budget racers that quickly morphes into a high dollar no holds bar type of class.

    My cousin (Chris Grote) competed in NMRA with a little dark brown 85-86 capri for a few years. Can't remember the class for the life of me though. I do remember he had that little 302/C4 combo running 9.90's on motor only.

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    That is EXACTLY what happened in Factory Stock. I won 2 races in 2001 with my bolt-on 4V, and held the record for a long time at a 12.4x. By the time I won again, in 2004, I was running 11.4x with a purpose-built motor (still within the rules), and the quickest passes were in the 11.3s.

    Only N/A class that NMRA has that runs 9.90s or better is Hot Street...though they are running deep into the 8's now, with an 8.40 record.

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