Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 3456789 LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 170

F-bodies vs the new stangs

This is a discussion on F-bodies vs the new stangs within the Drag Racing forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Originally Posted by side2000 i have stock diff w/ moser axles and over 400 wheel w/ nothin but abuse and ...

  1. #121
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    2,010

    TA-White, Camaro-Black
    Track-TA98A4 DD-98z28M6

    Quote Originally Posted by side2000 View Post
    i have stock diff w/ moser axles and over 400 wheel w/ nothin but abuse and no problems. the t-56 is damn near bulletproof, i've only put synchro's in and i do nothin but road race. that doesn't seem like much if ya ask me. and i still beat lightly modded gt500's.

    wow lemons you musta been putting that together right as i was typin. what timing.
    road racing is a whole different game... and i dont know enough about it..
    as far as drag racing.. your rear would be gone VERY quick, along with your tranny with a few good launches on a sticky tire..

    i know for a FACT that you can build a 600+rwhp fbody for about 12 grand (little less) today.. but they are dirt dirt dirt cheap, along with parts.. i have that in my cars and am a low low low 10 second car trapping 130+.. thats more than enough to blow the doors off of most modded gt500s....
    but again......
    when they came out.. that was a WHOLE different ball game.. im not arguing that they cant be made to be superior for MUCH less money today.. but 6 years ago.. that was a completely different story.

    haha, i was surprised someone had time to read mine and reply... we musta been typing together!


    EDIT:::: hope this post made sense and had some kind of point, haha.. im about to get off and did it half ass paying attention..

  2. #122
    Member side2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    md
    Posts
    861

    red
    2000 camaro ss

    well i had to read it and edit mine so hope ya get it.

  3. #123
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    2,010

    TA-White, Camaro-Black
    Track-TA98A4 DD-98z28M6

    Quote Originally Posted by side2000 View Post
    so you're tellin me cobras came w/ forged internals? i really think you are mistaken, and i will sound like an idiot if i'm wrong, but i personally know guys who spun their bottom ends apart from fact 'charger mods, i was always under the impression they were not forged. but no1 is right all the time and i certainly never gave it any thought to sweat what they have internally. just "ass u me 'd"
    exactly what im telling you..
    http://www.moddedmustangs.com/2003-2...erminator.html

    you dont sound like an idiot, just ignorant on some model mustangs..
    not all cobras came forged.. 03-04 or the "terminators"..

    im sure some of the earlier years did have that problem (not sure).. but the 03-04s are pretty solid cars all the way around..

  4. #124
    Member side2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    md
    Posts
    861

    red
    2000 camaro ss

    well i don't feel too bad. 2 years of forged internals doesnt change my view on bustangs. i do sound like an idiot 'cuz i'm supposed to know these things. . . . . . . .if ya don't know this kinda shit than you're a claimer. . . . . .
    Last edited by side2000; 01-18-2009 at 09:34 PM.

  5. #125
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    2,010

    TA-White, Camaro-Black
    Track-TA98A4 DD-98z28M6

    Quote Originally Posted by side2000 View Post
    well i don't feel too bad. 2 years of forged internals doesnt change my view on bustangs. i do sound like an idiot 'cuz i'm supposed to know these things. . . . . . . .if ya don't know this kinda shit than you're a claimer. . . . . .
    haha.. there have been a few good years for mustangs.. the mach1's are respectable cars.. along with some later cobras.. not quite impressive as the termies, but still can hold there own none the less..

    why are you supposed to know these things? your a chevy man!

    a claimer?

  6. #126
    Member side2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    md
    Posts
    861

    red
    2000 camaro ss

    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    haha.. there have been a few good years for mustangs.. the mach1's are respectable cars.. along with some later cobras.. not quite impressive as the termies, but still can hold there own none the less..

    why are you supposed to know these things? your a chevy man!

    a claimer?
    i'm a chevy man 'cuz it's the best. . .in order for me to have this idea i have to legitimately prove it. i can't legit'ly prove it if i don't know what there is to know 'bout everything else. you know who claimers are. they get "70 horse from exhaust", or "30 horse from intake", or they "beat v8's all the time" (when they actually beat an '85 firebird). . .or they "have turbo's on the way", or "their car's in the shop", or "i got my boost dialed down", the list of claims from a claimer are infinite.

  7. #127
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    2,010

    TA-White, Camaro-Black
    Track-TA98A4 DD-98z28M6

    Quote Originally Posted by side2000 View Post
    i'm a chevy man 'cuz it's the best. . .in order for me to have this idea i have to legitimately prove it. i can't legit'ly prove it if i don't know what there is to know 'bout everything else. you know who claimers are. they get "70 horse from exhaust", or "30 horse from intake", or they "beat v8's all the time" (when they actually beat an '85 firebird). . .or they "have turbo's on the way", or "their car's in the shop", or "i got my boost dialed down", the list of claims from a claimer are infinite.
    ahhh, i got ya!

    i woudnt say it is "the best"... i wouldnt call any platform "the best".. but it is DEFINITELY a contender.. cheap, reliable, easy to work on, makes killer power in stock trim, good gains from mods, etc..
    there are ups and downs to ALL platforms.. cobras come with IRS.. imports have 4 cylinders ().. supras dont have a lot of tq.. new muscle cars are heavy.. GTRs have shitty transmissions.. vettes have IRS..

    those are to name a few platforms with a few problems with their starting platform.. i could go on and on with each and everyone..

    claimers are a joke.. i love people who go off what manufacturers advertise gains with their prodct, and thats what they add to their stock HP.. if that were the case i should have over 500rwhp in a N/A 346 stalled a4.. not gonna happen..

  8. #128
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post

    yes.. people dont usually factor in a 2500$ rear end when talking about making our cars fast, or a tranny.. haha.. ............
    And thats a real issue that more people should be considering. Saying the 4th gen is a great platform isn't realistic without taking the whole drivetrain into consideration.
    The LSX motor is really the only thing it has going for it. And even that isn't forged so large amounts of boost are questionable. The rest of the drivetrain isn't that great and needs major money invested to be up to the task of a 400-600 HP engine.
    Even the 6 speeds aren't bullet proof. GM got chincy on a few parts that need to be upgraded inside, and it still has a whimpy output shaft,,,,the stock clutch is weak along with the hydraulic system,,,,the driveshaft is another weak link. And we all know how the rearends are.

    From the transmission back there is another $6 grand or more to spend if you want to do it right. Doesn't look like so much of a bargain to me.

  9. #129
    Member side2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    md
    Posts
    861

    red
    2000 camaro ss

    [QUOTE=Firebirdjones;1784398]And thats a real issue that more people should be considering. Saying the 4th gen is a great platform isn't realistic without taking the whole drivetrain into consideration.
    The LSX motor is really the only thing it has going for it. And even that isn't forged so large amounts of boost are questionable. The rest of the drivetrain isn't that great and needs major money invested to be up to the task of a 400-600 HP engine.
    Even the 6 speeds aren't bullet proof. GM got chincy on a few parts that need to be upgraded inside, and it still has a whimpy output shaft,,,,the stock clutch is weak along with the hydraulic system,,,,the driveshaft is another weak link. And we all know how the rearends are.

    From the transmission back there is another $6 grand or more to spend if you want to do it right. Doesn't look like so much of a bargain to me.[/
    QUOTE]

    thats because you think tranny back costs 6 grand. i made mine bulletproof for < 2 grand. auto's i wont defend cuz they cost a ton to build.

  10. #130
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    2,010

    TA-White, Camaro-Black
    Track-TA98A4 DD-98z28M6

    Quote Originally Posted by side2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    And thats a real issue that more people should be considering. Saying the 4th gen is a great platform isn't realistic without taking the whole drivetrain into consideration.
    The LSX motor is really the only thing it has going for it. And even that isn't forged so large amounts of boost are questionable. The rest of the drivetrain isn't that great and needs major money invested to be up to the task of a 400-600 HP engine.
    Even the 6 speeds aren't bullet proof. GM got chincy on a few parts that need to be upgraded inside, and it still has a whimpy output shaft,,,,the stock clutch is weak along with the hydraulic system,,,,the driveshaft is another weak link. And we all know how the rearends are.

    From the transmission back there is another $6 grand or more to spend if you want to do it right. Doesn't look like so much of a bargain to me.
    thats because you think tranny back costs 6 grand. i made mine bulletproof for < 2 grand. auto's i wont defend cuz they cost a ton to build.
    WELL!

    in firebirds defense.. if done correctly it adds up really quick... depending on if you want OD on an a4, or a true bulletproof m6..
    built a4= 1500
    built rear end= 2500
    full suspension= 1500

    he was actally right on target..

    now granted, you can buy used and get things for cheaper.. but that would be "cheating" haha.. j/k.. but for arguments sake, we will use new prices..

    these are the prices if you buy and install these parts yourself.. add another grand if you cant put them in, along with all your misc crap that either brakes or needs replaced in the process.. along with all the fluids, gaskets, and so on..

    it gets expensive QUICK..
    again, this is new prices.. and done correctly, without expense spared (it actually could be more)
    im sure you could have a close to bulletproof m6 or a4 for about 2k.. or less depending on some variables... can you do a rear end and tranny for that much... no, not even double it..

    BUT! haha..

    in side2000's defense... you can do it for MUCH cheaper than 6k if you want to.. buying GOOD used parts, and installed yourself.. fullish suspension rear end and tranny could be had for about 4500 bucks..

  11. #131
    Member side2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    md
    Posts
    861

    red
    2000 camaro ss

    well, you can get a drop in moser 12 bolt for 1500 bucks housing and all. and, you CAN make your 10 bolt decent w/ axles and diff. with a little welding, you can drop in somethin straight from yard for much less. i usually pick up truck axles and use them since they are abundant. i know most people don't do this kinda stuff and i'm stating the lowest price claims possible, but the middle ground is surely reasonable.

    suspension--dont you gotta put suspension on ANY car for it to do what you want it to do? granted, i have a ton of money in my chassis/suspension that most people wouldn't need. and a vette doesn't need stupid stuff like "sub-frame strengtheners". . .but most cars are subframe cars and NEED same stuff we need.

    i am entirely familiar with the snowball effect of the overall ticket, that's why i learned to find ways to do it cheaper. no car is impervious to the infamous snowballing ticket, however, so the same arguement could be made for any car, not just our f-bodies. i still think they are best bang for the buck, again im excluding autos from my argument cuz they are funny.

    by the way i feel like you are right to use new part comparisons, just stating my experience w/ what i have. anyone can stake claims 'bout how cheap they do stuff, and much of it are just that: "claims"
    2000 red ss: >2" drop, koni adjustables 'n 275 s-compounds all way around, giant brakes, dynatech LT's, borla catback (no plate), t56, tubular everything, HARD TOP, caged, "stock" heads 'n a mean cam. -2* front camber.

  12. #132
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    2,010

    TA-White, Camaro-Black
    Track-TA98A4 DD-98z28M6

    Quote Originally Posted by side2000 View Post
    well, you can get a drop in moser 12 bolt for 1500 bucks housing and all. and, you CAN make your 10 bolt decent w/ axles and diff. with a little welding, you can drop in somethin straight from yard for much less. i usually pick up truck axles and use them since they are abundant. i know most people don't do this kinda stuff and i'm stating the lowest price claims possible, but the middle ground is surely reasonable.

    suspension--dont you gotta put suspension on ANY car for it to do what you want it to do? granted, i have a ton of money in my chassis/suspension that most people wouldn't need. and a vette doesn't need stupid stuff like "sub-frame strengtheners". . .but most cars are subframe cars and NEED same stuff we need.

    i am entirely familiar with the snowball effect of the overall ticket, that's why i learned to find ways to do it cheaper. no car is impervious to the infamous snowballing ticket, however, so the same arguement could be made for any car, not just our f-bodies. i still think they are best bang for the buck, again im excluding autos from my argument cuz they are funny.

    by the way i feel like you are right to use new part comparisons, just stating my experience w/ what i have. anyone can stake claims 'bout how cheap they do stuff, and much of it are just that: "claims"
    i agree with you totally...

    for the dollar, its hard to beat a built fbody, PERIOD!
    they are so cheap nowadays, along with the parts, and so on.. autos and manuals both..

    but, only a moron would argue with that..
    i like to compare the price of a 02 fbody when bought in 02 with parts bought new.. much more interesting.. it is funny to see how many cars were actually in our class..
    nowadays, there isnt many things that even come close to an ls1 when taking its current cost into consideration.. nothing even remotely close actually..

  13. #133
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    WELL!

    in firebirds defense.. if done correctly it adds up really quick... depending on if you want OD on an a4, or a true bulletproof m6..
    built a4= 1500
    built rear end= 2500
    full suspension= 1500

    he was actally right on target..

    now granted, you can buy used and get things for cheaper.. but that would be "cheating" haha.. j/k.. but for arguments sake, we will use new prices..

    these are the prices if you buy and install these parts yourself.. add another grand if you cant put them in, along with all your misc crap that either brakes or needs replaced in the process.. along with all the fluids, gaskets, and so on..

    it gets expensive QUICK..
    again, this is new prices.. and done correctly, without expense spared (it actually could be more)
    im sure you could have a close to bulletproof m6 or a4 for about 2k.. or less depending on some variables... can you do a rear end and tranny for that much... no, not even double it..

    BUT! haha..

    in side2000's defense... you can do it for MUCH cheaper than 6k if you want to.. buying GOOD used parts, and installed yourself.. fullish suspension rear end and tranny could be had for about 4500 bucks..

    Thank you Lemons, I actually low balled it. When it comes to bullet proofing something I tend to buy new parts and don't skimp on anything. I like reliability and I don't want to have to open something back up down the road because I bought used or tried to save a few bucks.
    That usually comes back to bite ya in the end.

  14. #134
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Quote Originally Posted by side2000 View Post
    well, you can get a drop in moser 12 bolt for 1500 bucks housing and all. and, you CAN make your 10 bolt decent w/ axles and diff. with a little welding, you can drop in somethin straight from yard for much less. i usually pick up truck axles and use them since they are abundant. i know most people don't do this kinda stuff and i'm stating the lowest price claims possible, but the middle ground is surely reasonable.

    suspension--dont you gotta put suspension on ANY car for it to do what you want it to do? granted, i have a ton of money in my chassis/suspension that most people wouldn't need. and a vette doesn't need stupid stuff like "sub-frame strengtheners". . .but most cars are subframe cars and NEED same stuff we need.

    i am entirely familiar with the snowball effect of the overall ticket, that's why i learned to find ways to do it cheaper. no car is impervious to the infamous snowballing ticket, however, so the same arguement could be made for any car, not just our f-bodies. i still think they are best bang for the buck, again im excluding autos from my argument cuz they are funny.

    by the way i feel like you are right to use new part comparisons, just stating my experience w/ what i have. anyone can stake claims 'bout how cheap they do stuff, and much of it are just that: "claims"

    A drop in Moser isn't $1,500,,,,it's more like $3,000. A bare housing alone will set ya back close to a grand $$$. I have built them cheaper for people when I start with a bare housing, but it just depends on what your idea of bullet proof is. You'll also need to have a driveshaft made since most aftermarket suppliers will send you the rear with a 1350 series pinion yoke.

    Now you could just stick an "adapter" joint in there,,,,but thats asking for trouble. Best to have a driveshaft made for the 1350 joints along with it's own 1350 front yoke. This will set ya back another $500 easily or more depending on material chosen. You could also just buy a standard pinion yoke that will accept your driveshaft and leave it at that,,,,, but it's whimpy for all out track use and it's not really bulletproof by my standards. You end up with the stock driveshaft and a weak link in the drivetrain going this route.


    Bullet proofing a 6 speed is a broad term to most people, and some think that sticking better synchro's and shifter forks are good and call it done. I call that a refresh with parts GM should have built it with from the get go.

    I on the other hand prefer a larger output shaft (400 turbo style) and some other nice internal upgrades that all add up fast.
    These 6 speeds are nice transmissions but they are not bullet proof by any means, even with better forks and synchro's.
    You can twist and even snap that whimpy output shaft pretty easily if you try. The input shaft is already a fine spline and isn't too terrible.

    I'm just touching the surface here but it really depends on how far you want to take things and how a persons idea of a stout dependable trouble free drivetrain is.

    In reality, the 6 speeds will cost you as much to bullet proof as the auto will. For all out racing I wouldn't even bother with a 4L60E anyway, the gear spread sucks for racing. I'd go straight for a 400 turbo and call it done.

  15. #135
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    2,010

    TA-White, Camaro-Black
    Track-TA98A4 DD-98z28M6

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Thank you Lemons, I actually low balled it. When it comes to bullet proofing something I tend to buy new parts and don't skimp on anything. I like reliability and I don't want to have to open something back up down the road because I bought used or tried to save a few bucks.
    That usually comes back to bite ya in the end.
    i agree with you both on almost everything you two said on both parts.. it can be cheap and strong.. but can also cause trouble so why not do it the first time right..

    sometimes you save a shit load doing it cheap, sometimes it cause you tons of headahes and a lot more money in the long haul..


    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    In reality, the 6 speeds will cost you as much to bullet proof as the auto will. For all out racing I wouldn't even bother with a 4L60E anyway, the gear spread sucks for racing. I'd go straight for a 400 turbo and call it done.

    HAHAHA, up until i read this my reply to your post was going to be... "the way i would make my 4l60e is to get a 400 turbo!" haha..

  16. #136
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    i agree with you both on almost everything you two said on both parts.. it can be cheap and strong.. but can also cause trouble so why not do it the first time right..

    sometimes you save a shit load doing it cheap, sometimes it cause you tons of headahes and a lot more money in the long haul..





    HAHAHA, up until i read this my reply to your post was going to be... "the way i would make my 4l60e is to get a 400 turbo!" haha..
    Hehe,,,thats funny. Alot of serious racers go that route, makes sense. For a street car that isn't looking for optimum ET's and minimal track time the 4L60E is okay. For a serious track car that sees a little street time it's the 400 all the way,,,,or if you like to row your own gears I'd ditch the 6 speed for a Jericho or Lenco.

  17. #137
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    2,010

    TA-White, Camaro-Black
    Track-TA98A4 DD-98z28M6

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Hehe,,,thats funny. Alot of serious racers go that route, makes sense. For a street car that isn't looking for optimum ET's and minimal track time the 4L60E is okay. For a serious track car that sees a little street time it's the 400 all the way,,,,or if you like to row your own gears I'd ditch the 6 speed for a Jericho or Lenco.
    yea, and for the price you cant beat it.. 400 or 350...

    just no overdrive sucks.. hence little street time.. haha

  18. #138
    Member side2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    md
    Posts
    861

    red
    2000 camaro ss

    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    yea, and for the price you cant beat it.. 400 or 350...

    just no overdrive sucks.. hence little street time.. haha
    or a gear vendor

  19. #139
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    yea, and for the price you cant beat it.. 400 or 350...

    just no overdrive sucks.. hence little street time.. haha
    I've never really been hooked on the overdrive bandwagon myself. I find myself driving my older hotrods with 3 speed autos or 4 speed manuals more often than either of our 4th gens.

    Shucks my daily driver for many years was my nomad, with a muncie 4 speed and 4.56's,,still have it today and wouldn't change a thing on it.
    After I retired that from daily use I went to another nova again with a muncie and 4.56's.
    I currently have a ventura with a muncie and 4.88's
    The chevelle has 4.10's with a 400 turbo,,,I find this rather mild after driving the other cars

    I actually find a 3.73 gear with no overdrive quite friendly. With a 28 inch tire you can cruise at 65 mph at only 2,800 rpms. This is how we set up my fathers GTO and you can get anywhere in a timely manner and the motor is still running comfortably.

    The problem with the 4th gens are those wheenie tires at only 26 inches tall at best. Switching to a wheel that will accept a typical 28 inch tire would help tremendously.

  20. #140
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    2,010

    TA-White, Camaro-Black
    Track-TA98A4 DD-98z28M6

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I've never really been hooked on the overdrive bandwagon myself. I find myself driving my older hotrods with 3 speed autos or 4 speed manuals more often than either of our 4th gens.

    Shucks my daily driver for many years was my nomad, with a muncie 4 speed and 4.56's,,still have it today and wouldn't change a thing on it.
    After I retired that from daily use I went to another nova again with a muncie and 4.56's.
    I currently have a ventura with a muncie and 4.88's
    The chevelle has 4.10's with a 400 turbo,,,I find this rather mild after driving the other cars

    I actually find a 3.73 gear with no overdrive quite friendly. With a 28 inch tire you can cruise at 65 mph at only 2,800 rpms. This is how we set up my fathers GTO and you can get anywhere in a timely manner and the motor is still running comfortably.

    The problem with the 4th gens are those wheenie tires at only 26 inches tall at best. Switching to a wheel that will accept a typical 28 inch tire would help tremendously.
    i run 1/8 mile.. so i have a 26.5 tire (draglites)...... doesnt take to well to a 4k stall 410s.. and even with the OD, at highway speeds my RPMs get WAY up there.. haha.. no way i would DD mine with a 400 turbo... once i get another DD though, i will be getting a turbo400 fo sho fo sho..

    you have had some nice cars it seems!

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 3456789 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. its also still fun to kill 6 banger stangs lol
    By Speedy_Gonzales in forum Kill Stories
    Replies: 117
    Last Post: 02-05-2010, 10:46 AM
  2. Any of you guys know fox body stangs?
    By EnjoiJoe in forum Almost Anything Goes
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 08-08-2009, 04:23 PM
  3. Two New Stangs...Slain>>> by Po-Po
    By Crimson Sin in forum Kill Stories
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-19-2008, 06:51 PM
  4. Why So Many Stangs...............?
    By matthewaqui in forum Domestics and Foreigns
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 03-30-2008, 02:29 PM
  5. Why are Stangs so much slower?
    By H8machine in forum Domestics and Foreigns
    Replies: 270
    Last Post: 09-11-2006, 06:31 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •