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F-bodies vs the new stangs

This is a discussion on F-bodies vs the new stangs within the Drag Racing forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Originally Posted by lemons12 i promise you that the majority of new GTs will beat fbodys (STOCK for STOCK) on ...

  1. #101
    Sarge for AAG Emperor hutch1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    i promise you that the majority of new GTs will beat fbodys (STOCK for STOCK) on the street most of the time..
    reason being.. our TQ.. and the GTs lack of... street racing is ALL about traction... red light to red light, i give it the GT.. above 60mph.. the ls1 will pass it up and keep pulling..

    at the track.. its a different story.. ls1 all around..
    I would say just the opposite, stock for stock both manual cars, the ls1 will come out on top the majority of the time

  2. #102
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    And let us not forget the Stangs have got time on their side! GM laid it down for them in 98. I think 06-08 was past due time for them to catch-up!

    I recall with my 94 Z-28, stock for stock against the Stangs, we had 'em beat nicely! By 98......
    no doubt.... at the track they are way behind.. the mustang gt still has not caught up the ls1.. only mustang that has is the termi, and then some 50k$ mustangs..

    but then again, they didnt make the GT for the track...

  3. #103
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutch1999 View Post
    I would say just the opposite, stock for stock both manual cars, the ls1 will come out on top the majority of the time
    well i was saying red light racing.. as in below 60 mph... which im sure the GT has better traction than we do in a TRUE STOCK car..

    i would say safe to say by 60 the ls1 would be passing in and pulling pretty easily..

  4. #104
    Sarge for AAG Emperor hutch1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    well i was saying red light racing.. as in below 60 mph... which im sure the GT has better traction than we do in a TRUE STOCK car..

    i would say safe to say by 60 the ls1 would be passing in and pulling pretty easily..
    i guess ive never been a race that only goes to 60mph

  5. #105
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutch1999 View Post
    i guess ive never been a race that only goes to 60mph
    me either.. im just assuming with ls1 traction issues the GT would come out on top till 60 or so..


    in cities sometimes thats as high you can get to.. (i dont race stop light to stop light..)

  6. #106
    Sarge for AAG Emperor hutch1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    me either.. im just assuming with ls1 traction issues the GT would come out on top till 60 or so..


    in cities sometimes thats as high you can get to.. (i dont race stop light to stop light..)
    yea, i raced a SS from a stop light thats about it. your also assuming the gt get a great launch, im sure they are still hard to launch properly also. But i really cant say from firrst hand expirence since I have never drove a new stang.

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    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutch1999 View Post
    yea, i raced a SS from a stop light thats about it. your also assuming the gt get a great launch, im sure they are still hard to launch properly also. But i really cant say from firrst hand expirence since I have never drove a new stang.
    i run around on street tires... so unless i go home and change tires.. im not racing just till 60 mph.. hahaha..

    i dont know anything about launching a stang.. none of them..

  8. #108
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    Honestly! promise...

    Never had one get in front of me! From a lined up run.

    I had one Cobra roll past me early one morning (caught me off guard...coffee in hand) he had me by half a car on a downhill ramp to I-85. I just put in the lighter drive line...I don't know if he couldn't drive or what. I almost broke my neck looking for him when it went down to one lane.

    I was rolling through the city and a GT500 (a nice one) come rolling up to play. 3 shorter hauls and the best I could tell he had me from 0 to 20 or so and I was reeling him in from their to leaving 1st ~60mph. We got crazy on one leg and I'd say he had me from 75 or 85 on.

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    This topic has been beat to death. Mod for Mod the LS1 ftw. I give a KB Cobra a slight advantage if modded equally, but not in all cases. I don't see too many Cobra's at the track or non that impress me.

    Cam only, 2 small stages = 10.62 with a spinning 1.52 60'. I'm sure there are KB Cobras with juice that run these numbers, but I haven't seen one.

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    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02blkws6 View Post
    This topic has been beat to death. Mod for Mod the LS1 ftw. I give a KB Cobra a slight advantage if modded equally, but not in all cases. I don't see too many Cobra's at the track or non that impress me.

    Cam only, 2 small stages = 10.62 with a spinning 1.52 60'. I'm sure there are KB Cobras with juice that run these numbers, but I haven't seen one.
    yes it has been beaten to death.. and im sure it will continue..

    mod for mod against *most mustangs, yes.. mod for mod against all... hell no.
    you give a KB cobra a "slight" advantage, are you on crack?
    they have ported eatons in the low low low 10s and stock eatons in mid to lows.. you just havnt seen someone that can launch a cobra to its potential is all.. run into someone that can and your tune will change..
    a KB or whipple.. 9s..
    remember, just because YOU havnt seen it.. doesnt mean they arent all over the place.. a lot of cobras dont go to the track.. they like roll racing.... IRS is a bitch and a half..

    stock eaton with a little juice..
    http://videos.streetfire.net/video/0...BAD_195941.htm
    prime example of a bad launch... 129 is a faster trap than a 11.2 run..
    http://videos.streetfire.net/video/0...112_199706.htm
    properly launched stock eaton..
    http://videos.streetfire.net/video/0...1031_96804.htm

    im no nut swinger for ford.. i will be the FIRST in a group to talk shit on them and run my mouth, but where respect is deserved, it should be given..

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    yes it has been beaten to death.. and im sure it will continue..

    mod for mod against *most mustangs, yes.. mod for mod against all... hell no.
    you give a KB cobra a "slight" advantage, are you on crack?
    they have ported eatons in the low low low 10s and stock eatons in mid to lows.. you just havnt seen someone that can launch a cobra to its potential is all.. run into someone that can and your tune will change..
    a KB or whipple.. 9s..
    remember, just because YOU havnt seen it.. doesnt mean they arent all over the place.. a lot of cobras dont go to the track.. they like roll racing.... IRS is a bitch and a half..

    stock eaton with a little juice..
    http://videos.streetfire.net/video/0...BAD_195941.htm
    prime example of a bad launch... 129 is a faster trap than a 11.2 run..
    http://videos.streetfire.net/video/0...112_199706.htm
    properly launched stock eaton..
    http://videos.streetfire.net/video/0...1031_96804.htm

    im no nut swinger for ford.. i will be the FIRST in a group to talk shit on them and run my mouth, but where respect is deserved, it should be given..
    If you two are talking "mod for mod" like mentioned in the earlier post there is no advantage for the Cobra.

  12. #112
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayenne97 View Post
    If you two are talking "mod for mod" like mentioned in the earlier post there is no advantage for the Cobra.
    WELL... you cant really say mod for mod...

    a cobra come stock with a supercharger.. and an fbody does... so yo cant really compare..

    even if you put a supercharger on an fbody.. you still cant compare.. a cobra could turn the boost up enough plus some spray and not have to worry because it has forged internals.. we dont..

    again guys, im no nutswinger.. i hate ford.. and hate mustangs even more.. but again, where respect is deserved.....

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    WELL... you cant really say mod for mod...

    a cobra come stock with a supercharger.. and an fbody does... so yo cant really compare..

    even if you put a supercharger on an fbody.. you still cant compare.. a cobra could turn the boost up enough plus some spray and not have to worry because it has forged internals.. we dont..

    again guys, im no nutswinger.. i hate ford.. and hate mustangs even more.. but again, where respect is deserved.....
    You have to love Lems being so honest and fair!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    He is fair, no give ... just the honest way he see's it. He is right
    over 99% of the time! Give it to the man!

  14. #114
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    the gt500 is 50 grand. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .50. . . . . . . . .grand. . . . . . . . .5. . . . . .0. . . . . . .g. . . .rand. . . . .

    our f-bodies may not have forged internals, but the nodular crank can still put us into the 10's, and we don't need boost to do it.

    we can also get over 400 cubes w/ the block that comes with car. . . . .all for way < gt500 sticker.

    old model svt's are infamous for slingin bottom ends w/ swapped pulley 'n bolt ons. at least in my neck of the woods. i dont see where the respect is deserved.

    you are a humble guy lemons and this is by no means an attack on you, and i hope it doesn't seem that way (i dont think it does)
    Last edited by side2000; 01-18-2009 at 09:45 AM.

  15. #115
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    We have to make sure we put prices into perspective here though.

    Ya the GT500 is $50K,,,,,,in 2009

    Our cars stickered at $30-33K back in 1998, thats more than 10 years ago.

    Our cars weren't exactly cheap when they were new. If you want to build a new engine with over 400 cubes that requires a new block and internals etc....That'll set ya back another $6-10K so you are starting to get close to the price of a new GT500

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    We have to make sure we put prices into perspective here though.

    Ya the GT500 is $50K,,,,,,in 2009

    Our cars stickered at $30-33K back in 1998, thats more than 10 years ago.

    Our cars weren't exactly cheap when they were new. If you want to build a new engine with over 400 cubes that requires a new block and internals etc....That'll set ya back another $6-10K so you are starting to get close to the price of a new GT500

    New Camaro is just a bit more...start around $32.5-35K. And err ummm uh...422HP!
    15 grand or so for mods to play with. Like I always like to tell 'em, "dollar for dollar!"
    And I let 'em know they are racing an old car...80k mlieage grandpa that I have $17.8K in.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    New Camaro is just a bit more...start around $32.5-35K. And err ummm uh...422HP!
    15 grand or so for mods to play with. Like I always like to tell 'em, "dollar for dollar!"
    And I let 'em know they are racing an old car...80k mlieage grandpa that I have $17.8K in.
    Ya, by the time you build a motor to take alot of boost reliably to be on the same playing field as the GT500 you are about in the same boat money wise.

    To me it's a crap shoot if you want to start with a brand new camaro. Hopefully the rest of the drivetrain is up to the task on the new F-body,,,,because lord knows the 4th gens aren't, thats another big expense as well.

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    The numbers for the new Cam are kind of all over but I hear reports of it doing 0-60 .2 slower to a .1 faster. Numbers all over the place for 1/4s.

    But I can't see headers, cold air, and 5lbs of boost not running faster than a GT500.

    Specualtion thus far...deliveries start May/June...real numbers then!

  19. #119
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS02 View Post
    You have to love Lems being so honest and fair!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    He is fair, no give ... just the honest way he see's it. He is right
    over 99% of the time! Give it to the man!


    Quote Originally Posted by side2000 View Post
    the gt500 is 50 grand. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .50. . . . . . . . .grand. . . . . . . . .5. . . . . .0. . . . . . .g. . . .rand. . . . .

    our f-bodies may not have forged internals, but the nodular crank can still put us into the 10's, and we don't need boost to do it.

    we can also get over 400 cubes w/ the block that comes with car. . . . .all for way < gt500 sticker.

    old model svt's are infamous for slingin bottom ends w/ swapped pulley 'n bolt ons. at least in my neck of the woods. i dont see where the respect is deserved.

    you are a humble guy lemons and this is by no means an attack on you, and i hope it doesn't seem that way (i dont think it does)
    i wasnt really talking about the gt500.. those car do not impress me one bit for the money..
    take for example a 03-04 cobra.. MSRP was right at 35,000.. some a few under, some a few above... and yes an 02 SS or Ws6 with a handful of options was right there at that price also...

    with that said.. you have two bone stock cars..
    fbody (dont the correct way) low 10s with H/C sprayed rear end.. that will easily run you 8-10k.. and thats low estimating..
    cobra.. low 10s on stock eaton thats pullied with some spray.. 1-2k..
    to me thats a no brainer... no in todays perspective.. the fbody can be made to go MUCH faster for MUCH less.... but that isnt the discussion on hand, so no need for that..

    for the price of a SS or Ws6 in 02, you cant hardly put full exhaust on it without being over MSRP for an 03 cobra, and you are still going to get walked on pretty damn good..

    i dont hear about too many *properly* built cobras blowing the engines.. cheap builds, yes of course.. but this goes for fbodies also..

    didnt feel like an attack at all.. we are just sharing opinions on a subject!

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    We have to make sure we put prices into perspective here though.

    Ya the GT500 is $50K,,,,,,in 2009

    Our cars stickered at $30-33K back in 1998, thats more than 10 years ago.

    Our cars weren't exactly cheap when they were new. If you want to build a new engine with over 400 cubes that requires a new block and internals etc....That'll set ya back another $6-10K so you are starting to get close to the price of a new GT500
    exactly..

    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    New Camaro is just a bit more...start around $32.5-35K. And err ummm uh...422HP!
    15 grand or so for mods to play with. Like I always like to tell 'em, "dollar for dollar!"
    And I let 'em know they are racing an old car...80k mlieage grandpa that I have $17.8K in.
    the cobra puts down right around that same power.. the new camaro doesnt put that to the grond.. thats flywheel.. it will end up putting down about what a cobra does.. just the cobra weighs about 150-300lbs less depending on options of both vehicles..

    again, i didnt say anything about a gt500.. i was talking cobra.. and if you take that into account, you have no money to play around with.. itd be a hell of a race between the two, but im gonna have to give the win to the cobra with a good driver..

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Ya, by the time you build a motor to take alot of boost reliably to be on the same playing field as the GT500 you are about in the same boat money wise.

    To me it's a crap shoot if you want to start with a brand new camaro. Hopefully the rest of the drivetrain is up to the task on the new F-body,,,,because lord knows the 4th gens aren't, thats another big expense as well.
    yes.. people dont usually factor in a 2500$ rear end when talking about making our cars fast, or a tranny.. haha..






    nice to see some other peoples perspective on the matter, just remember to keep an open mind... i dont like mustangs or ford as much as the next guy.. but, where its deserved..............

  20. #120
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    i have stock diff w/ moser axles and over 400 wheel w/ nothin but abuse and no problems. the t-56 is damn near bulletproof, i've only put synchro's in and i do nothin but road race. that doesn't seem like much if ya ask me. and i still beat lightly modded gt500's.

    wow lemons you musta been puttin that together right as i was typin. what timing. so you're tellin me cobras came w/ forged internals? i really think you are mistaken, and i will sound like an idiot if i'm wrong, but i personally know guys who spun their bottom ends apart from fact 'charger mods, i was always under the impression they were not forged. but no1 is right all the time and i certainly never gave it any thought to sweat what they have internally. just "ass u me 'd"
    Last edited by side2000; 01-18-2009 at 09:01 PM.
    2000 red ss: >2" drop, koni adjustables 'n 275 s-compounds all way around, giant brakes, dynatech LT's, borla catback (no plate), t56, tubular everything, HARD TOP, caged, "stock" heads 'n a mean cam. -2* front camber.

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