Bogart Rims & SJM Manufacturing Horrable Mistake

[hoserack]

We all know the troubles assoc. with modding our vehicles.

SJM Manufacturing and Bogart rims take things to a new level.

I ordered my rims and sent a check (no.1 big mistake) on 5/9/05.

Then I didn't get the rims til mid August.

When I finally did get them they looked great so I felt better and got the tires mounted and put em on.

I had to leave for a few weeks and when I got back I noticed allot of rust on the through bolts on the rims. Plus there was already corrosion on the bare aluminum.

I called Steve(SJM) and he said he had never had any complaints about these rims and he tried to minimize my problem.

First I only wanted some stainless through bolts or treated steel.

Steve said Rich Bogart had nothing to send me.

They told me to sand and paint the bolts or use WD40 on them. :eyes:

I looked at doing that then said to myself, these rims are never going to be anything other than a pain in the butt.

So I called Steve and asked if they would send me something unbolted so I wouldn't have the bolt problem.

He argued with me for almost 1/2 an hour how this wasn't a manufacturing defect.

That was on Saturday 9/10/05, he was supposed to call me Monday but that call didn't come, so I sent an e-mail this morning and here is his response:


I was thinking the same thing this morning. I thought you were going to call me but was just too busy yesterday. Monday can be quite hectic sometimes.

Rich Bogart expressed since there is nothing defective with the wheels, they were mounted and used for over a month, he was not willing to exchange them since he could not do anything with a set of used wheels. Feel free to contact him directly at 602 353 6640 anytime after 12pm EST if you would like to discuss it further with him.



Steve Monte

President

SJM Manufacturing Inc.

Bogart wholesale/distributor


So here I sit, with a shit set of rims I paid $1400.00 for.
I'm gonna need to find some hardware to try to fix them and then try to get them polished and have them clear powder coated. I went to a really good hardware store yesterday and they had nothing even close to the bolts I need in stainless.


One last thing Steve told me this " You shouldn't keep the wheels outside"
Can you believe that? A 1400. set of rims that need to be kept indoors. :eyes: Might need a dehumidifier too.

MY advice stay far away from Bogart products, & if you do buy use a credit card.
Steve will sway you away from this like he did me saying he would have to charege way more, but pay the extra for protection.

Here's the photos I sent Steve.

[steve10]

As most will probably realize, there is always information that is omitted regarding transactions.

The bolts are special designed structural grade 8 oxide coated bolts. There is no replacement aluminum or stainless bolt which can be used.

If steel is left outside in the elements, overtime, it will rust. This INCLUDES lugs nuts, valve stems etc. General preventative maintenance must be taken to keep ferrous and non-ferrous metals from rusting and oxidizing quickly.

The customer mentioned he left his wheels outside 24/7 in all weather conditions, obviously without any type of protection. Aluminum will oxidize; steel will rust in these conditions which it obviously has.

We do not have control of the products once the customer receives them and the care they give them. Just as a car needs preventative maintenance, our wheels do to!

The wheels were in perfect condition when the customer received them, there were no defects, nor are there any defects to date.

I attempted to help the customer by giving him advise on keeping the wheels looking like new, he did not want to comply stating he did not want to have to do a thing to the wheels, they should look like new all the time. Furthermore, I mentioned we would be happy to send new bolts, the customer declined.

The customer is incorrect on his dates of manufacturing as well as when he received them. They were sent on June 24th and delivered on July 1st. The customer felt that after using them for over 2 months and not taking care of them, we should take the wheels back when there are no defects and asking for a completely different style wheel due to his neglect for free.

His last response to my e-mail was “let’s play ball :-)”. Obviously, this his attempt to discredit Bogart wheels for his lack of care and maintenance which has nothing to due with the actual product that was in perfect condition upon arrival.

[Eugenio_SS]

thank you for the clarification.
Also, it's mentionned on Bogarts webpage that the wheels are for "Racing only", and I can only assume that it's due to the exposure to the elements that make it this way.
I guess little maintenance on the bolts is not asking too much for it, imho.

Forgot to add, imho, a good thing about this thread is that people wanting to use them as street wheels, they should opt for welded versions, to avoid premature rusting of bolts.

[steve10]

The wheels are built for drag racing hence "for racing use only". It has nothing to do with the nature and the elements.

“For drag use only”…Some folks feel safe with a weld drag wheel on the street for some reason, every one of their drag wheels front runners i.e. prostars, draglites etc are "for racing use only". The front runner should be of most concern as it receives a great deal of stress over even a rear wheel. The customer takes a risk regarding using something it was not intended for.

Bolts...Certainly bolts can rust as with any bolt that is grade 8 steel. Even many grades of stainless oxidize and will react with different materials i.e. aluminum.

Bolts rust and wheels oxidize as the pictures clearly show. As with any aluminum wheel, a good coat of wax should be used. Using a dab of oil on the bolts protects them. Even when waxing the wheels, many probably get wax on the bolts which help preserve them.

Metal reacting on the wheels is not strictly a wheel issue... even the valve stems can and will rust. Simple care and maintenance must be used. If no maintenance is considered, just as the finish on your car, any unprotected surface on our car…quality will suffer over time.

Many use the wheels 24/7, this is the first I have seen it this bad. This is in no way our ok to use the wheels on the street, each customer must use his or her own best judgement.

Considering the F-body, we've got ~4 years of history, this is the first time I’ve seen a customers set of wheels deteriorate so quickly. We certainly didn't build the wheels sub-standard or use poor quality bolts, there have been no wheels before or after these were built that would suspect there was a quality control issue with the bolts themselves. It is a care and use issue, not a manufacturing process or quality control issue.

I felt very bad for the customer; I attempted to help him going above and beyond by looking for specialty stainless grade bolts to no avail, something we have never done in the past. Many times, I go upon and beyond where others won’t go…We do have limits; we certainly won't warranty something that was clearly consumer neglect of care over a 2 month period. We were willing to correct what has occurred over time as with any product we manufacture or design. This is not a warranty issue though.

As with any high-end wheel, care must be taken. Most high-end manufactures will not coat their aluminum wheels with powdercoating or type of clear-coat since it changes the luster or “color” that aluminum is famous for. This means you must at least put a good coat of wax on the aluminum to keep them looking like new. Occasional polishing is necessary to remove the oxidation, be certain to re-wax the wheels.

Wheel that are clear-coated will last a bit longer, BUT they WILL still oxidize over a period of time. You will have one large mess trying to remove the clear-coat to polish them. Much more work is needed as well as time and money spent if you would have left them unpolished. Plan on spending 1 hour a month polishing any aluminum wheel, like you’d polish or wax your car.

Steve

[Eugenio_SS]

what about the road race wheels ?
I'm thinking those should be able to take the abuse on the road, since they are meant to take the abuse of flex and high g-forces on cornering.
Am I out of whack ?
Asking because thinking on getting 2 sets... 1 for drag and 1 for RoadRace.

[Eugenio_SS]

...I attempted to help the customer by giving him advise on keeping the wheels looking like new, he did not want to comply stating he did not want to have to do a thing to the wheels, they should look like new all the time. Furthermore, I mentioned we would be happy to send new bolts, the customer declined...

Why would he refuse help or new bolts ?

[02 WS6 TA]

All I have to say is Welcome to Florida...Hell, the polished wheels on out cars will tarnish just SITTING in the warehouse. Not much you can do about it, I've tried for years. Sad to tell ya, there is nothing defective about your wheels other than where we're located.

[steve10]

The customer refused the bolts as he didn’t feel he should have to put new bolts on the wheels. (Costs of the bolts were not discussed, this is not a warranty issue, he declined even the offer of putting new bolts on the wheels). There are 20 bolts, washers and nuts on each wheel (80 total). Specialized grade 8 bolts, zinc nuts and washers are not inexpensive. How much does one think these parts costs? Even at 1.50/bolt washer and nut which is completely reasonable, costs add up.

From our lengthy discussion, he feels the wheels look the way they do from using defective or sub-standard materials. Not true. The problem he will find is even high-end products such as Weld Aluma Stars, Mickey Thompson drag wheels etc. are built with similar materials. If he owned them, he would have similar issues if he did not take preventive maintenance of the wheels.

What the customer is asking for is to return the wheels after mounting them with tires, using them retaining possession for over 2 months… in exchange for a different style wheel all at our cost. No manufacture I’m aware of takes wheels back that are used, mounted and not defective. Actually, once you mount a wheel, MOST manufactures will not take a wheel back under warranty PERIOD…i.e. say the wheel was noted to be bent after it was balanced but not driven on. This is noted directly from other wheel manufactures.

We cannot satisfy everyone 100% of the time. We do try and most will know that I personally work very hard at this. We would be willing to repair the wheels like new but not under warranty since we did nothing to make the wheels look the way they do now. They were perfect when he received them with no defects or blemishes.

Over 20 years of Bogart wheels being sold in addition to other high-end wheel manufactures selling similar setup wheels, general care and maintenance is necessary. This care and maintenance is similar for ANY high-end wheel.

I understand his position and him being upset. I would also be upset if I purchased wheels and they were tarnishing. I would not blame it on a manufacture defect or want the manufacture to cover all repair costs when admittedly; I did not take any preventive maintenance on the wheels. I also would not threaten that if the manufacture does not comply with my unreasonable requests that I will take it to forums in attempts to tarnish their reputation.

Everyone can draw their own conclusions.

[Eugenio_SS]

I'm locking this thread since it seems resolved and if anyone involved want to add anything, either click on the "report to moderator" or PM me... and I'll reopen it if necssary.