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Paint, is it REALLY that much?

This is a discussion on Paint, is it REALLY that much? within the Appearance Section forums, part of the General Help category; So... I'm getting ready to fix my hood and bumper. I just bought a new bumper... $80 for a new, ...

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    Paint, is it REALLY that much?

    So... I'm getting ready to fix my hood and bumper. I just bought a new bumper... $80 for a new, raw finish. Since I have a bunch of other stuff to also do on the engine (ls6 manifold, valley cover, plugs/wires, etc...) I figured that I would try to set aside about 5 days total, take off the hood, fix the fiberglass and then take the hood and new bumper to a paint shop, just have them toss on the door code paint (et. al. primer, clear, etc...) and pick them up when ready. Meanwhile, I'm working on the engine nice and hood free!

    I bought the car at 100k miles, it had been a front-ender at one point (not bad enough for insurance, but bad enough to buy an aftermarket hood that fits like hell.) Then, whoever did the work, had the old "8-ball" paint job done. (Looks good from 8 feet away, after 8 pm.) Really bad! Over-spray, orange peel, pitting, cracking, didn't see any runs, but I wouldn't be surprised. That's all stuff on the roof, rear lid, fenders.... everywhere!

    None of that truly bothers me, this car is for me to play with/learn auto mechanics on. If I want a $5000+ paint job, I'll go for the whole car and send it somewhere real! (And I sure wouldn't on this car, interior is almost as worn-up as the outside. I'd have that professionally redone before the paint.

    So... I'm driving around for quotes today. Now, I'm trying to be realistic here. Paint is pricey. I know that. I'm explaining to the paint guys exactly what I'm looking for, showing them the other paint problems on the car while explaining that that should be an example of how I want a "down and dirty" paint job, prime and clear with the paint. Nothing horrible, but were not matching to even factory paint job! I drop off the parts, and pick them up when ready.

    Highest quote was "over $1000, you HAVE to paint the fenders too, that's the only way they will match!" Really?? Then how do the fenders match the doors?? I cut him off, laughed and said forget it.

    Best quote is for around $600 That's still WAY too much in my book. $400 seems like a number that would be the highest I would go.

    These guys are saying "paint alone is $200" Even still.... I'm not asking for any time masking a thing. Hang 2 parts and paint them.

    This got me thinking.... For $600-$800 I can go out myself, buy a nice compressor, a half-decent paint gun, and all the other crap I need and put a paint job on this car that is AT LEAST as good as the slop that is on there now. And after that, I have a nice compressor... I've always wanted my own shop air!

    If you read all that, WOW! Thanks! I hope you're a paint guy. Even better if you're a paint guy near me and would be willing to do this for $400 or less!! However... Any thoughts on realistic cost to set myself up to do my own paint?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TokerM View Post
    So... I'm getting ready to fix my hood and bumper. I just bought a new bumper... $80 for a new, raw finish. Since I have a bunch of other stuff to also do on the engine (ls6 manifold, valley cover, plugs/wires, etc...) I figured that I would try to set aside about 5 days total, take off the hood, fix the fiberglass and then take the hood and new bumper to a paint shop, just have them toss on the door code paint (et. al. primer, clear, etc...) and pick them up when ready. Meanwhile, I'm working on the engine nice and hood free!

    I bought the car at 100k miles, it had been a front-ender at one point (not bad enough for insurance, but bad enough to buy an aftermarket hood that fits like hell.) Then, whoever did the work, had the old "8-ball" paint job done. (Looks good from 8 feet away, after 8 pm.) Really bad! Over-spray, orange peel, pitting, cracking, didn't see any runs, but I wouldn't be surprised. That's all stuff on the roof, rear lid, fenders.... everywhere!

    None of that truly bothers me, this car is for me to play with/learn auto mechanics on. If I want a $5000+ paint job, I'll go for the whole car and send it somewhere real! (And I sure wouldn't on this car, interior is almost as worn-up as the outside. I'd have that professionally redone before the paint.

    So... I'm driving around for quotes today. Now, I'm trying to be realistic here. Paint is pricey. I know that. I'm explaining to the paint guys exactly what I'm looking for, showing them the other paint problems on the car while explaining that that should be an example of how I want a "down and dirty" paint job, prime and clear with the paint. Nothing horrible, but were not matching to even factory paint job! I drop off the parts, and pick them up when ready.

    Highest quote was "over $1000, you HAVE to paint the fenders too, that's the only way they will match!" Really?? Then how do the fenders match the doors?? I cut him off, laughed and said forget it.

    Best quote is for around $600 That's still WAY too much in my book. $400 seems like a number that would be the highest I would go.

    These guys are saying "paint alone is $200" Even still.... I'm not asking for any time masking a thing. Hang 2 parts and paint them.

    This got me thinking.... For $600-$800 I can go out myself, buy a nice compressor, a half-decent paint gun, and all the other crap I need and put a paint job on this car that is AT LEAST as good as the slop that is on there now. And after that, I have a nice compressor... I've always wanted my own shop air!

    If you read all that, WOW! Thanks! I hope you're a paint guy. Even better if you're a paint guy near me and would be willing to do this for $400 or less!! However... Any thoughts on realistic cost to set myself up to do my own paint?
    my dad and i do paint work but we are a little out of driving range and 7-800 is not too bad of a deal seeing as though it will cost 200+ for materials depending on what they use we use acrylic based nason products mostly b/c setups and that can cost anywhere from 3-500 depending on a color but if your trying to get it cheap then go to maaco other wise save a little more money and get it done right the first time man

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    What would you consider the minimum size compressor required would be to hold enough air to do 1 full coat on the hood... Right now I'm thinking that a 25-30gal tank would suffice? ...and, what kind of cfm and psi should I be looking for for painting?

    I'm trying to price the basic stuff up here before I decide if I send it out or DIY
    Last edited by TokerM; 10-27-2010 at 06:18 PM.

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    Member tpilews's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TokerM View Post
    What would you consider the minimum size compressor required would be to hold enough air to do 1 full coat on the hood... Right now I'm thinking that a 25-30gal tank would suffice? ...and, what kind of cfm and psi should I be looking for for painting?

    I'm trying to price the basic stuff up here before I decide if I send it out or DIY
    at least 10 cfm at 40 psi. I've got a 5 HP, 30 gallon compressor that's running 12 cfm and you can paint continuously. You can get away with less, but you may have to wait for your compressor to build pressure and you really don't want to stop once you get it all going.

    But, if you are just doing a hood, you may be able to get away with 6 cfm or less at 40 psi. Just a rough guess though. A hood isn't going to take very long to shoot.
    Last edited by tpilews; 10-27-2010 at 10:18 PM.

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    Member speedyWS6's Avatar
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    Hi...,

    What your describing is somewhat similar to the job i have just had
    completed on my own front bumper!

    If you go and have a look at the damage pics here.... SES light .... but no codes??!... you can see that it was a bad scrape and a bit of panel re-alignment and this job which obviously necessitated
    the removal of the bumper cover...repair of a split underneath by plastic welding.... repair of the impact absorbing foam beneath.... and a matching re-paint lightened my account by around $650 US, so the figures you state do kind of tally.

    Just thought i'd throw this in as i hate to see people getting ripped off.....
    .... but i don't think you would be at this sort of price!? I have to say i can do bodywork as i have restored older cars in the past...but painting, Mmmmm
    , best left to people who can really put it on correctly, but equally,i guess it's not rocket science so if you go the self paint route i really hope it comes out great for you!!!

    Trev... )

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    Quote Originally Posted by tpilews View Post
    at least 10 cfm at 40 psi. I've got a 5 HP, 30 gallon compressor that's running 12 cfm and you can paint continuously. You can get away with less, but you may have to wait for your compressor to build pressure and you really don't want to stop once you get it all going.

    But, if you are just doing a hood, you may be able to get away with 6 cfm or less at 40 psi. Just a rough guess though. A hood isn't going to take very long to shoot.
    Thats completely right our compressor holds 90 psi constant which is what our d/a requires (d/a is an orbital sander). we just adjust our paint guns to allow us to spray correctly at that pressure

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    Everyone is quoting no less than $600 - $300 per panel. Telling me that they have to sand it before clear that's all the rest of the cost. I'm pointing out that every other panel on the car has orange peel. The last paint job wasn't put on right and sanded. I'm not interested in having them sand out the peel for a hood that doesn't fit and the front bumper! I'll sand prep the hood, they just need to shoot a good shot of paint on. Even if I grant $200 for the paint and supplies, that's $400 profit (they already own the guns, compressor, etc...) About one mornings work for a pro would be my guess. What kicks me is that I keep looking at them with empty shops. I'm starting to think they are all front organizations!

    rant over. Some early budget numbers I'm thinking of:

    $200 - Paint gun "starter kit" (I see a few different kits aval. with 2 guns, gun/sanders, different options.)

    $100 - Supplies (tarp to turn my back porch into a paint booth, mixing cups, prep supplies (sandpaper, thinner/acetone, etc...) cleaning supplies.)

    $200 - Paint
    a. 2 qts primer
    b. 2 qts base coat (need to find GM color match to door code #)
    c. 2 qts clear coat.
    d. hardeners, thinners and what-nots that I seem to need with paint (still learning.)

    We're at $500 there... I'm also thinking that each one might be up to $30 on the high side. So $4-500 is where I'm starting.

    That leaves me with $1-200 off my lowest estimate. I can buy a cheap compressor from Sears for that... but that's a big "get what you pay for" deal, I understand that. Spend a little more, say up to $400 for a half decent 20-25 gal ~4 c.f.m. compressor that will run just about any home shop tool I want.

    Even if I want to hold back on cost, if I just rent a compressor from Home Depot I can cut costs and still make out.

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    Auto Painter RyanJM's Avatar
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    Ok I have a small shop and for a basi you bring it sanded crap paint job on a hood and bumper with no wetsanding and buffing clear I would still charge at least $400.

    Lets say you wanna do it to save cash I will give you the right amounts.
    A.1 QT primer (brand depending on store Shopline(PPG) or Nason(Dupont).
    B. 1QT Paint since your a beginer it will give you more than enought. Paint is usually reduced 1:1 but check with the store some cheaper paints are reccomended to be reduced slightly less or more. 1QT reduced makes 2 sprayable.
    C.1QT of reducer for paint buy slow or fast depending on temp. store owner can help you.
    D.1Qt of clear is more than enought. Buy activator to go with temp. also.
    E. Wax and grease remover to clean panels before painting.
    F. Tack rag to remove dust between color coats and to wipe and dust before clearcoat.

    Now tools.
    Compressor needs to be between 4 to 10cfm depending on your paint guns. My SATA mini needs 3 to 4 cfm and my cheaper Finex needs at least 6 to 8 to spray as good. Take that into consideration when looking at guns and compressors both.
    Finex makes a good low budget gun as well as DeVilbiss. Also you will want a small gun mount pressure regulator since most HVLP guns require between 25 and 29 PSI.
    Northern Tool(if you have on near you) has some great compressors for any budget I got a $150 like 4or 5cfm compressor we use for bumper and doors at dealers for our mobile paint service. I also got a 60GaL industrial for my shop thats like 14 or 16 cfm for $799. forget sears Lowe's has much better compressors and then their is Home Depot.
    Just PM me if you want links to see any guns or you have any questions.
    1998 Trans Am 85k miles.
    Bolt ons, MS3 113LSA cam, Circle D Stall, Tune, Modified WS6 style hood, Full Suspension, 6000k HID's, Clear Side Markers w/ Leds, Led 3rd Brake Light and 18" AR Staggered Killer Wheels w/ BFG KDW NT's.- Weekend Toy/DD
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    Quote Originally Posted by TokerM View Post
    Everyone is quoting no less than $600 - $300 per panel. Telling me that they have to sand it before clear that's all the rest of the cost. I'm pointing out that every other panel on the car has orange peel. The last paint job wasn't put on right and sanded. I'm not interested in having them sand out the peel for a hood that doesn't fit and the front bumper! I'll sand prep the hood, they just need to shoot a good shot of paint on. Even if I grant $200 for the paint and supplies, that's $400 profit (they already own the guns, compressor, etc...) About one mornings work for a pro would be my guess. What kicks me is that I keep looking at them with empty shops. I'm starting to think they are all front organizations!

    rant over. Some early budget numbers I'm thinking of:

    $200 - Paint gun "starter kit" (I see a few different kits aval. with 2 guns, gun/sanders, different options.)

    $100 - Supplies (tarp to turn my back porch into a paint booth, mixing cups, prep supplies (sandpaper, thinner/acetone, etc...) cleaning supplies.)

    $200 - Paint
    a. 2 qts primer
    b. 2 qts base coat (need to find GM color match to door code #)
    c. 2 qts clear coat.
    d. hardeners, thinners and what-nots that I seem to need with paint (still learning.)

    We're at $500 there... I'm also thinking that each one might be up to $30 on the high side. So $4-500 is where I'm starting.

    That leaves me with $1-200 off my lowest estimate. I can buy a cheap compressor from Sears for that... but that's a big "get what you pay for" deal, I understand that. Spend a little more, say up to $400 for a half decent 20-25 gal ~4 c.f.m. compressor that will run just about any home shop tool I want.

    Even if I want to hold back on cost, if I just rent a compressor from Home Depot I can cut costs and still make out.
    you wont need that much paint for those two pieces one quart of paint or even a pint would be more than enough if you know how to mix it and if its your first time to paint you need to learn how to wetsand especially if your doing it yourself. you will more than likely get lots of debris in it no matter what you do. but i would say go for it and start learning how to paint its a great skill to have especially when you have a vehicle to practice on

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanJM View Post
    Ok I have a small shop and for a basi you bring it sanded crap paint job on a hood and bumper with no wetsanding and buffing clear I would still charge at least $400.

    Lets say you wanna do it to save cash I will give you the right amounts.
    A.1 QT primer (brand depending on store Shopline(PPG) or Nason(Dupont).
    B. 1QT Paint since your a beginer it will give you more than enought. Paint is usually reduced 1:1 but check with the store some cheaper paints are reccomended to be reduced slightly less or more. 1QT reduced makes 2 sprayable.
    C.1QT of reducer for paint buy slow or fast depending on temp. store owner can help you.
    D.1Qt of clear is more than enought. Buy activator to go with temp. also.
    E. Wax and grease remover to clean panels before painting.
    F. Tack rag to remove dust between color coats and to wipe and dust before clearcoat.

    Now tools.
    Compressor needs to be between 4 to 10cfm depending on your paint guns. My SATA mini needs 3 to 4 cfm and my cheaper Finex needs at least 6 to 8 to spray as good. Take that into consideration when looking at guns and compressors both.
    Finex makes a good low budget gun as well as DeVilbiss. Also you will want a small gun mount pressure regulator since most HVLP guns require between 25 and 29 PSI.
    Northern Tool(if you have on near you) has some great compressors for any budget I got a $150 like 4or 5cfm compressor we use for bumper and doors at dealers for our mobile paint service. I also got a 60GaL industrial for my shop thats like 14 or 16 cfm for $799. forget sears Lowe's has much better compressors and then their is Home Depot.
    Just PM me if you want links to see any guns or you have any questions.
    i was just about to PM you man your the one that does this shit for a living lol

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    THANKS!!

    And Ryan, what you suggested was exactly what I've been trying to find locally. Someone that would have no problem shrugging his shoulders and saying, sure, I do it for $400, but you can't tell anyone I ever painted it! My responce would have been, look at the roof, who's going to notice a hood? THOSE guys were my $600 numbers.

    Again, thanks, more research tonight!

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    Try to find a technical college near you that has an auto body class. I am sure if you supplied the paint you could get someone to practice on your parts for nothing.

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    I've been going to one for one night a week... problem is, the body side is full of guys that already have work! Pricing this out, I can definitely get my own set-up for $600, and I'm already getting friends asking me to do some stuff for them! I told them, they buy the paint, I get the practice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TokerM View Post
    I've been going to one for one night a week... problem is, the body side is full of guys that already have work! Pricing this out, I can definitely get my own set-up for $600, and I'm already getting friends asking me to do some stuff for them! I told them, they buy the paint, I get the practice!
    sounds like a good plan to me and then once you get good at it you start to make $$$ off of them too

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    Wait.........WHAT??!! LoneGunman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanJM View Post
    Ok I have a small shop and for a basi you bring it sanded crap paint job on a hood and bumper with no wetsanding and buffing clear I would still charge at least $400.

    Lets say you wanna do it to save cash I will give you the right amounts.
    A.1 QT primer (brand depending on store Shopline(PPG) or Nason(Dupont).
    B. 1QT Paint since your a beginer it will give you more than enought. Paint is usually reduced 1:1 but check with the store some cheaper paints are reccomended to be reduced slightly less or more. 1QT reduced makes 2 sprayable.
    C.1QT of reducer for paint buy slow or fast depending on temp. store owner can help you.
    D.1Qt of clear is more than enought. Buy activator to go with temp. also.
    E. Wax and grease remover to clean panels before painting.
    F. Tack rag to remove dust between color coats and to wipe and dust before clearcoat.

    Now tools.
    Compressor needs to be between 4 to 10cfm depending on your paint guns. My SATA mini needs 3 to 4 cfm and my cheaper Finex needs at least 6 to 8 to spray as good. Take that into consideration when looking at guns and compressors both.
    Finex makes a good low budget gun as well as DeVilbiss. Also you will want a small gun mount pressure regulator since most HVLP guns require between 25 and 29 PSI.
    Northern Tool(if you have on near you) has some great compressors for any budget I got a $150 like 4or 5cfm compressor we use for bumper and doors at dealers for our mobile paint service. I also got a 60GaL industrial for my shop thats like 14 or 16 cfm for $799. forget sears Lowe's has much better compressors and then their is Home Depot.
    Just PM me if you want links to see any guns or you have any questions.
    You forgot Flex Agent. An absolute MUST on eurethane parts.

  16. #16
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    I made out like a bandit at industrial auctions for Sears Craftsman and Devilbiss paint guns and compressor accessories. Got away with a NEW Craftsman old style (not HPLV) door/trim gun and a used but perfect full size Devilbiss old style gun for less than $100.

    They are not the latest and greatest HVLP style, but these are what I learned on working in aviation doing dope and fabric fuselage panels back in the 70s (yes i'm showing my age).

    I got a $400 Black Max compressor at Costco and picked up lots of other air tools at yard sales and auctions for cheap, so it can be done.

    If you have any friends who can get pro discounts at local paint shops you can save some that way too. My son worked at a dealership in the parts dept, so I got some discounts up to 40% on materials, too. I didn't do my own painting on my car, despite the available tools - I was in the state Senate at the time and had no time for hobbies. It cost me $500 for my hood and wing painting on my '02 when it was new. The orange peel from the factory was pretty bad, and I had it sanded and buffed out at the time when the hood and wing were painted, but it barely improved the orange peel, and I wouldn't recommend it, if your orange peel is from the factory.

    I had a guy who was trying to learn and had access to a professional body shop where he was working part time as an apprentice. He was a full time mechanic - a very good one at that - and he did a reasonably good job. In later years the clear coat started to peel, though, apparently his prep between color coats and clear was not thorough enough, and I need to re do the hood, and fix some light damage on the bumper.

    I will replace the bumper and get the hood and bumper shot at the same time.

    I am considering doing it myself, but my air tools and compressor were stolen by our moving company on my last move and so I have to find a new compressor and orbital sander before I do that.

    Got to hit the auctions again...

    HTH!

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