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Menzerna SIP For 4th Gen's Hard Clear Coat?

This is a discussion on Menzerna SIP For 4th Gen's Hard Clear Coat? within the Showcar and Detailing forums, part of the General Help category; Does Menzerna SIP and Orange LC pad with a 7424 work good for 4th gen F-body hard clear coat or ...

  1. #1
    Junior Member Mesterious's Avatar
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    Menzerna SIP For 4th Gen's Hard Clear Coat?

    Does Menzerna SIP and Orange LC pad with a 7424 work good for 4th gen F-body hard clear coat or is something (pad or product) stronger needed? To be specific 2002 Trans am WS6. Someone told me that the WS6 Hood has a harder clear coat and was painted separately.

    Edit: Should I go straight to M105?
    Last edited by Mesterious; 07-24-2010 at 05:31 PM.

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    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
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    lmao...i can telll you that is not the case at all...

    this car (now mine) was sitting for 4-5 yrs exposed to the elements in the previous owners driveway. do you really think it was prepped, painted and cleared correctly? i sure don't!!!


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    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
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    '12 Silver SS 1SS
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    what exactly are you trying to do? polish, wax?

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    Junior Member Mesterious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    lmao...i can telll you that is not the case at all...

    this car (now mine) was sitting for 4-5 yrs exposed to the elements in the previous owners driveway. do you really think it was prepped, painted and cleared correctly? i sure don't!!!

    Click for full size
    DAMN?? That doesn't look very good.. haha..

    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    what exactly are you trying to do? polish, wax?
    Well to start I have a Black 2002 Trans am WS6 that has light to moderate swirls pretty much everywhere, Fine to Moderate scratches in different places, cobweb effect on the t top bar, and spiderweb cracking in random places.

    Well I just bought a PC 7424xp with 2 orange 2 white and 2 blue (black is sold out) along with zaino PC Fusion, ZAIO, Z5, Z6, Z7, Z8, and ZCS. Well Zaino PC Fusion as I'm sure you know isn't strong enough to take out the swirls that I need removing so I need something good for my first step.

    I was thinking Meguiar's UC, M105, or Menzerna SIP. So I need help picking a first step for my car. What should I get?

    Edit: I will get pictures of my car as soon as I can. Also I have I guess you would say oxidation because in spots on my car in direct sunlight you can see its turning brown...
    Last edited by Mesterious; 07-24-2010 at 06:14 PM.

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    Senior Member Z06-Goose's Avatar
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    Your best bet is the M105 hands down.
    It will give you the extra bite you need for the hard GM clearcoat.
    The Menzerna SIP is also capable of doing the job, it will just take you a little longer to achieve the results you want.
    If you're going to get the M105 buy the M205 along with it as a second step to follow after theM105 so you'll have a better looking finish...

  6. #6
    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
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    I agree with Goose. He knows what he's talking about. I would start with the middle grade polish on a test area and go from there. If you aret getting the desired results, you can always step to a more aggressve polish for the removal of the moderate swirl marks.

    As for the spiderwebbing, the clearcoat and possibly the paint have been damaged/cracked. It will only be a matter of time before those areas could start to flake off while doing something as light as washing the car. You could dry to wetsand down the area, cut the clear, polish in stages and then wax for protection. Otherwise you can repaint and clear. Tough to say without seeing pics, so I'll wait for you to post them up.

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    I believe ASC Global didn't so as good a job on the clear of the WS.6 hood than GM did on the rest of the car.
    My hood is starting to peel a little clear up, and I have kept it in very good shape.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Mesterious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z06-Goose View Post
    Your best bet is the M105 hands down.
    It will give you the extra bite you need for the hard GM clearcoat.
    The Menzerna SIP is also capable of doing the job, it will just take you a little longer to achieve the results you want.
    If you're going to get the M105 buy the M205 along with it as a second step to follow after theM105 so you'll have a better looking finish...
    Thanks Goose! I just bought M105/M205! I hope I'm not asking to much but do you have any tips on using M105 and M205?

    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    I agree with Goose. He knows what he's talking about. I would start with the middle grade polish on a test area and go from there. If you aret getting the desired results, you can always step to a more aggressve polish for the removal of the moderate swirl marks.

    As for the spiderwebbing, the clearcoat and possibly the paint have been damaged/cracked. It will only be a matter of time before those areas could start to flake off while doing something as light as washing the car. You could dry to wetsand down the area, cut the clear, polish in stages and then wax for protection. Otherwise you can repaint and clear. Tough to say without seeing pics, so I'll wait for you to post them up.
    Thanks for tell me that!!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Z06-Goose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesterious View Post
    Thanks Goose! I just bought M105/M205! I hope I'm not asking to much but do you have any tips on using M105 and M205?
    The M105 will work with your orange pad.
    I'm glad you have the PC-XP, while I do have the old PC, I hear the XP has more guts to correct defects.

    That being said, you need to start by first learning how this combo would work for you.
    Pick the worst spot you see, and start by working a small area first; 2'x2' roughly. Go about 3" per-second motions with moderate pressure. The M105 has a short working time, meaning it will break down quick.

    The way I would work it is going in a square pattern. Start from left to right, straight down, back to your left, back up to where you started and overlap half a pad on the next pass to your right and so on. After that, work the same area now in an up and down motion across the square sufrace until you have it all covered. Wipe down and check your work.

    On certain polishes like Menzerna, going at a slower pace (1" per-second) is recomended since Menzerna has a much longer working time. With the M105 you want to move the buffer slightly faster with good pressure -depending on the severity of the area- as it tends to dry much quicker.
    The M105 is inended to remove an array of defects much faster.

    Practice that, and that should take you through your learning curve for which you could then make adjustments from. Light swirls marks would require moderate pressure, tougher and deeper scratches would require more pressure and more time.

    Also, you may need a few passes to achieve results.
    My definition of "passes" is a complete cycle of side-to-side- and up and down buffing of an area followed it by a wipe down.

    Any scratch that is deep -providing it hasn't gone thru the paint- will look a lot better. Don't expect a deep scratch to be completely gone. There's always going to be a slight indentation where the scratch once was but it will be a whole lot less visible, unless you wetsand it, for which I'm not going to give you any advice on it just yet

    If you have any more questions or if I haven't quite addressed any of your concerns, don't hesitate to ask. I can help you if I can, or perhaps someone else could chime in with good advice as well...

    Edit: Oh, I forgot. The M205 is a great finisher and could also be used with the orange pad to bring up the gloss after the M105.
    You could use a white pad with it as well. I haven't had any issues with it using an orange pad to achieve a good finish.
    Last edited by Z06-Goose; 07-25-2010 at 01:55 PM.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Mesterious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z06-Goose View Post
    The M105 will work with your orange pad.
    I'm glad you have the PC-XP, while I do have the old PC, I hear the XP has more guts to correct defects.

    That being said, you need to start by first learning how this combo would work for you.
    Pick the worst spot you see, and start by working a small area first; 2'x2' roughly. Go about 3" per-second motions with moderate pressure. The M105 has a short working time, meaning it will break down quick.

    The way I would work it is going in a square pattern. Start from left to right, straight down, back to your left, back up to where you started and overlap half a pad on the next pass to your right and so on. After that, work the same area now in an up and down motion across the square sufrace until you have it all covered. Wipe down and check your work.

    On certain polishes like Menzerna, going at a slower pace (1" per-second) is recomended since Menzerna has a much longer working time. With the M105 you want to move the buffer slightly faster with good pressure -depending on the severity of the area- as it tends to dry much quicker.
    The M105 is inended to remove an array of defects much faster.

    Practice that, and that should take you through your learning curve for which you could then make adjustments from. Light swirls marks would require moderate pressure, tougher and deeper scratches would require more pressure and more time.

    Also, you may need a few passes to achieve results.
    My definition of "passes" is a complete cycle of side-to-side- and up and down buffing of an area followed it by a wipe down.

    Any scratch that is deep -providing it hasn't gone thru the paint- will look a lot better. Don't expect a deep scratch to be completely gone. There's always going to be a slight indentation where the scratch once was but it will be a whole lot less visible, unless you wetsand it, for which I'm not going to give you any advice on it just yet

    If you have any more questions or if I haven't quite addressed any of your concerns, don't hesitate to ask. I can help you if I can, or perhaps someone else could chime in with good advice as well...

    Edit: Oh, I forgot. The M205 is a great finisher and could also be used with the orange pad to bring up the gloss after the M105.
    You could use a white pad with it as well. I haven't had any issues with it using an orange pad to achieve a good finish.
    WOOOW! Thanks for taking the time out to help me out!! Two things (for now haha). What exactly is moderate pressure in pounds? Would I use that same pressure with M205?

    Heres some Pictures of my car on Photobucket. Tell me if you think the Meg-Twins are capable of getting rid of most of the that ugly stuff.
    http://s840.photobucket.com/albums/z...erious/Before/

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    Senior Member Z06-Goose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesterious View Post
    WOOOW! Thanks for taking the time out to help me out!! Two things (for now haha). What exactly is moderate pressure in pounds? Would I use that same pressure with M205?

    Heres some Pictures of my car on Photobucket. Tell me if you think the Meg-Twins are capable of getting rid of most of the that ugly stuff.
    http://s840.photobucket.com/albums/z...erious/Before/
    By looking at the pics, I can tell you most of the swirls and haze will be gone.
    On the pc # 1 those vertical scratches seem to be too deep. Again, it's hard to judge by a picture but it looks like there's nothing you can do about it.
    Try buffing it and see what you get. You may have to fill them in with touch-up paint and then do a slight wetsanding with 2000 grit to level them off and then buff them out.
    things you see in pics 6 and 8 that's just cracking. That's beyond repair by any other means than re-painting the area.
    By moderate pressure try roughly 5lbs of pressure applied to the buffer. That should give you an idea how it might work for you. If the buffer bogs while applying pressure, you're applying too much.
    Even though the PC is a safe machine, always check the surface to see if you're generating too much heat.
    The important thing is to keep the buffer moving when applying pressure even if you're trying to remove a small scratch on a small single spot.
    Have patience and realize it won't come off as quickly as you may want.

    On the M205. This is a finishing type product. While it has the ability to remove swirls like on pic 4 and 5 if you were just to use it for that purpose, it's designed to remove haziness left by the M105. So, pressure will be measured by the results you're getting. Apply pressure as needed.
    In most cases, yes, it will need a little pressure to work, but not as much as you would need with the M105 when you're dealing with more severed defects.
    Hope this helps...

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    Professional Detailer GoFast908Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    lmao...i can telll you that is not the case at all...

    this car (now mine) was sitting for 4-5 yrs exposed to the elements in the previous owners driveway. do you really think it was prepped, painted and cleared correctly? i sure don't!!!

    Click for full size


    Hardness doesn't mean the clear is more durable, it means how easily or not it polishes out.

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    Member qwk93ta's Avatar
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    What is M105 and M205??

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    Professional Detailer GoFast908Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwk93ta View Post
    What is M105 and M205??
    Meguiars #105 and #205

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    Member qwk93ta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoFast908Z View Post
    Meguiars #105 and #205
    Thanks

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    Member qwk93ta's Avatar
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    I'm a newbie when it comes to detailing a car at this level. I have a cheap buffer and use Meguiars three step system...paint cleaner, polish and wax. However, this process is not getting out swirl marks or most scratches.

    I'm planning on buying a better polisher, but I'm not sure of the polishes or waxes to use with it. Would I use M105 then M205 and then a wax to complete the process?

    Thanks for your help!

  17. #17
    Professional Detailer GoFast908Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwk93ta View Post
    I'm a newbie when it comes to detailing a car at this level. I have a cheap buffer and use Meguiars three step system...paint cleaner, polish and wax. However, this process is not getting out swirl marks or most scratches.

    I'm planning on buying a better polisher, but I'm not sure of the polishes or waxes to use with it. Would I use M105 then M205 and then a wax to complete the process?

    Thanks for your help!
    Get the Porter Cable 7424XP. Lake country 5.5" orange, white, and black pads, and Megs 105/205 and Menzerna SIP. That is your starting point and will do you well. Yes you can wax after that. But you have to do an IPA (isoprophyl alcohol) wipedown first to strip the oils from polishing and to truly check your work as the polishes do contain fillers. Get a spray bottle, 50% water, 50% isoprophyl alcohol (91%) and use it like a detail spray. Then you can wax.

  18. #18
    Detailing + Design third_shift|studios's Avatar
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    I'll piss on the wall too:

    Flex 3401 (more TQ), Puple Foam Wool + M105 (keep it lubed with Megs Quick Detailer), Hydrotech Tangerine pad M205.

  19. #19
    Professional Detailer GoFast908Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by third_shift|studios View Post
    I'll piss on the wall too:

    Flex 3401 (more TQ), Puple Foam Wool + M105 (keep it lubed with Megs Quick Detailer), Hydrotech Tangerine pad M205.
    Also a good combo.

  20. #20
    I lika da Chevy's LETHALxLS1's Avatar
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    I have the Menzerna Super Intensive Polish and follow up with Menzerna Nano finishing polish. Works great. Last the Pinnacle Souveran paste wax.

    I thought there was no hope for my paint other than a repaint till I went with Menz. I had scratches everywhere, bad swirls and oxidation. I couldn't believe the results.

    I tried a couple other cheaper products first- just a waste of $ and contained fillers.
    Last edited by LETHALxLS1; 08-22-2010 at 12:55 AM.

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