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Simple Sub Question

This is a discussion on Simple Sub Question within the Stereo and Electronics forums, part of the General Help category; Originally Posted by StangKiller615 It causes clipping, which is caused by underpowering. Clipping kills subs. WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!! You people ...

  1. #21
    Rock-n-Roller White Rascal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StangKiller615 View Post
    It causes clipping, which is caused by underpowering. Clipping kills subs.
    WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!
    You people have no idea what you are talking about. Under powering has NOTHING to do with distortion. If an amp is rated at 50W RMS and you push it past it's limits you get clipping because you are asking the amp to deliver a higher voltage than it is capable of swinging. If you have a 500W amp and push it with the same signal as the 50W amp you won't have a problem because 50W is well within the 500W amp's power supply capabilities. Here is where an under powered amp can destroy a speaker. Since you are pushing the 50W amp too hard it clips it's output which in turn will over heat the speaker's voice coil and cause it to fail. It has nothing to do with the fact that the amp is only rated at 50W RMS. You are simply asking it to do something it is not capable of doing. If you keep the 50W amp's output clean it will work fine and will NEVER blow a speaker even if that speaker is rated at 500W.

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    Thanks White Rascal, I understand the point you're trying to make. But I'm not the kinda person to have a 500w RMS Speaker and a 100w RMS amp and just turn down the amp, I'd rather get the full potential of the speaker. So what I've gathered from you is if you push the lower RMS rated amp on a much higher RMS rated speaker, that's when you have the problems. Right?

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    Rock-n-Roller White Rascal's Avatar
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    Not exactly. The speaker has nothing to do with it.

    When you ask any amplifier, whether it's a 50 watter or a 500 watter, to deliver more voltage than it is capable of, it will distort. Is 50W too little power for a typical subwoofer? Yes. In that sense you are under powering the sub. However, as long as that 50W amp is not asked to deliver more than it is capable of it will not damage the speaker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by White Rascal View Post
    If an amp is rated at 50W RMS and you push it past it's limits you get clipping because you are asking the amp to deliver a higher voltage than it is capable of swinging. If you have a 500W amp and push it with the same signal as the 50W amp you won't have a problem because 50W is well within the 500W amp's power supply capabilities. Here is where an under powered amp can destroy a speaker. Since you are pushing the 50W amp too hard it clips it's output which in turn will over heat the speaker's voice coil and cause it to fail. It has nothing to do with the fact that the amp is only rated at 50W RMS. You are simply asking it to do something it is not capable of doing. If you keep the 50W amp's output clean it will work fine and will NEVER blow a speaker even if that speaker is rated at 500W.

    Oh my God you're thick! What YOU just described IS underpowering!!!!! You can't keep a 50w amp clean if you have it hooked to a 500w sub unless you don't want to actually hear what you are listening to!

    If let's say,for example, you turn your head unit up to 33 and it's max volume is 35, the 500w amp would play clean and loud but, the 50w amp would sound like shit. Why, because it's NOT enough POWER! If you have a sub that needs 50w to sound good then use a 50w amp, or a little larger and you won't have a problem. If you have a 500w sub and you use the same 50w amp then it will distort like hell when you try to turn it up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSomething View Post
    Thanks White Rascal, I understand the point you're trying to make. But I'm not the kinda person to have a 500w RMS Speaker and a 100w RMS amp and just turn down the amp, I'd rather get the full potential of the speaker. So what I've gathered from you is if you push the lower RMS rated amp on a much higher RMS rated speaker, that's when you have the problems. Right?
    Yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by White Rascal View Post
    Not exactly. The speaker has nothing to do with it.

    When you ask any amplifier, whether it's a 50 watter or a 500 watter, to deliver more voltage than it is capable of, it will distort. Is 50W too little power for a typical subwoofer? Yes. In that sense you are under powering the sub. However, as long as that 50W amp is not asked to deliver more than it is capable of it will not damage the speaker.
    Why are you even arguing? Nobody is saying the sub would blow if you hook it up and just turn it on. I am saying when you try to push it, it will distort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb91 View Post
    Pretty much distortion kills speakers not underpowering them. That is all good night.

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    Your amp should be underated a little since it is a RF amp, so your actual rms may be closer to 400 watts. Keep the amp turned down so you don't get clipping and I wouldn't suggest a capacitor, the mini battery for car audio out now is much better, I have a cap and it is just another area to cause problems and I still get drops when the bass hits. Underpowering the sub will not cause it to blow unless you try to push your amp to it's limits and distorts and clips. I am running 2 Memphis Audio 10's with a combined 600 watts rms and running them off a old school mtx 2150x amp rated at 325 watts rms(but is actually close to 450) and never a problem. I did have problems with the same amp and blowing subs in the past, but was because I was trying to go beyond the amps limits and clipping. Once I understood this, I have saved alot of money is sub replacement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by White Rascal View Post
    I said it once, I'll say it again. You have no idea what you are talking about.


    For all of you dumb f*cks arguing about things you don't know about, Rascal is the only one with a brain bigger than his balls.

    The speaker has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with clipping or distortion. Clipping is caused by overpowering the input of an amplifier. When the output side of the amp is pushed beyond its capabilites, the output transistors 'clip' the top of the wave, causing DC voltage, which extrudes the cone from the voice coil for an extended period of time, causing the voice coil to overheat and eventually start to come apart.

    Running an amp that is rated well below the rating of the speaker won't cause the speaker to blow unless you try to run the AMP too hard. To achieve a desired volume, it takes a much lower input signal to a 500W amp then it does to a 50W amp. Get it? If you use a 50W amp, and want to actually hear your sub, you will be turning the volume up as loud as it goes, causing the amp to clip and your speaker to go .

    There is some controversy about underdriving speakers by 75% of some bullshit. The only truth to that is looking at the efficiency of the speaker. Speakers designed to handle thousands of watts won't be as efficient as speakers only designed to handle a hundred watts, so using a 100W amp for a speaker designed to handle 2500W ***COULD*** produce less volume than using a speaker designed to handle 100W. This is not always true, and depends strictly on the speaker.

    StangKiller615 Says:
    "Underpowering a sub, and the resulting clipping of the amp to get the subs to perform as desired, overheats and burns coils.

    Try this little test. Take a 4 ohm door speaker rated at 40-50 watts and hook it up to an automotive 12v battery... and let it sit for a while. that is only 36 watts of energy.. but see how the speaker likes it.

    the less watts you add to a speaker the higher the gains and volume, resulting in higher clipping and the result is burnt v/c's."



    What a total retard! I have to advise that StangKiller615 be banned from this board temporarily for stupidity. Speakers, by nature, only accept AC voltage. When the signal is positive, the speaker cone is pushed out, when the signal is negative, the speaker cone is pulled in. Changes in amplitude (size of the wave) change the volume, as the larger the voltage gets, the further the cone moves in either direction. Changes in frequency (how quickly the signal changes from positive to negative) are what actually make sounds we here. Hooking a speaker to a DC power source (a 12V automotive battery as StangKiller615 put it) will cause the speaker to either push out or pull in, and stay that way. This will cause the voice coil to quickly burn up.

    DC voltage is ALWAYS bad for speakers. It destroys them. DC voltage is introduced when an amplifier clips the output signal, because it is higher than it can handle. This is what kills speakers, NOT underpowering.


    So, for those of you who think I'm wrong, take 5 years of Electrical Engineering and then you can argue. Otherwise, quit giving bad advise to people who are much more intelligent than yourself because they know enough to ask questions when they don't know something, instead of spouting off bullshit.

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    UNDERPOWERING IS VERY DANGEROUS!!! ll the replys are correct about it being easy to blow under powering are true.....You are much better to over power a sub versus under powering!!! Correct air space and x-over settings are just as important!!! Distortion is bad but as anyone VERY knowledgable will tell you for a sub amp putting out "real" bass 80Hz and lower you can't hear distortion. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN TURN GAIN ALL THE WAY UP EITHER!!!! Now some "NEW" class D bullshit with .18% dist. is some SUPER DIRTY junk you will hear it because with your 18db bass boost and gain turned all the way up it will be PURE distortion at 1/3 volume. When I'm speaking I'm referring to quality amps with less than .1%thd. I only fuck with REAL AUDIOPHILE shit like old school amps that don't have NO junk ass bassboost and have a .02%thd.At .02% your human ear can't even hear that minute bit!!!!!!! Lot's of factors play in to ALL this stuff though........Voltage,Signal quality,Grounds,Head unit,and Boxes!!!!
    Don't be afraid of the bottle!!! Be afraid of your tune!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbrack View Post


    If you use a 50W amp, and want to actually hear your sub, you will be turning the volume up as loud as it goes, causing the amp to clip and your speaker to go .
    That's what I fucking said!!!! That's called underpowering your sub!!!

    Mr.5yrs of E.E., I'm ASE certified in Automotive Electrical AND I sold Home and Car Audio for 6 yrs now... blah blah blah.... I guess you didn't read EVERY post huh?

    Nobody is saying that is the ONLY reason for a sub to blow! There are many factors involved, but underpowering can definitely be bad news for a sub, IF you want to actually listen to it LOUD!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2Tuner View Post
    UNDERPOWERING IS VERY DANGEROUS!!! ll the replys are correct about it being easy to blow under powering are true.....You are much better to over power a sub versus under powering!!! Correct air space and x-over settings are just as important!!! Distortion is bad but as anyone VERY knowledgable will tell you for a sub amp putting out "real" bass 80Hz and lower you can't hear distortion. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN TURN GAIN ALL THE WAY UP EITHER!!!! Now some "NEW" class D bullshit with .18% dist. is some SUPER DIRTY junk you will hear it because with your 18db bass boost and gain turned all the way up it will be PURE distortion at 1/3 volume. When I'm speaking I'm referring to quality amps with less than .1%thd. I only fuck with REAL AUDIOPHILE shit like old school amps that don't have NO junk ass bassboost and have a .02%thd.At .02% your human ear can't even hear that minute bit!!!!!!! Lot's of factors play in to ALL this stuff though........Voltage,Signal quality,Grounds,Head unit,and Boxes!!!!
    THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfe13 View Post
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