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Rip it up

This is a discussion on Rip it up within the Stereo and Electronics forums, part of the General Help category; I was thinking, for a weekend project, of completly ripping out my monsoon system... I have already replaced the deck ...

  1. #1
    Member Orrin's Z's Avatar
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    White and black
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    Rip it up

    I was thinking, for a weekend project, of completly ripping out my monsoon system...

    I have already replaced the deck and all speakers except for the hatch speakers....the system is running off of the monsoon amp.

    so i am looking for some tips and suggestions...how much i should rip up and what to avoid??


    i am wanting to add the amp rack in the back, with one 10" in the cubby.... so i was going to run wires, in hope to get some money to get amps, racks and sub ^_^

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    Red
    '97 Z28 M6

    I wouldn't rip anything out - no reason to...leave all the wires, leave the amp, etc.... Run new wires if ya have the need to for some reason...but it is not worth the hassle, IMO. Never know why you'll want it there in the future (if you sell it....or w/e). As long as you have the speakers and HU ripped out -- who cares.

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    Wouldn't rip out the wires as that can be a royal pain. Run new ones though. And quit using the damn factory amp. Most people don't realize that some of the amp outputs are at 2 ohms not 4. Like the ones in the doors and next to the rear seats. ones in the back are 4 ohms so no biggie. The problem with this is matched impedance which makes nice speakers sound bad or a nice system sound bad, depending on your perspective. Just git rid of the damn stock amp and run off the aftermarket head unit at least it's still at 4 ohms. You can run a 4 ohm speaker off a two ohm amp by matching the impedance if you really want to. To do this just wire a 4 ohm 50 watt resistor in parallel with the speaker. The hard part of this is figuring out where to mount the resistor (the size of chapstick) on a heat shedding surface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
    Wouldn't rip out the wires as that can be a royal pain. Run new ones though. And quit using the damn factory amp. Most people don't realize that some of the amp outputs are at 2 ohms not 4. Like the ones in the doors and next to the rear seats. ones in the back are 4 ohms so no biggie. The problem with this is matched impedance which makes nice speakers sound bad or a nice system sound bad, depending on your perspective. Just git rid of the damn stock amp and run off the aftermarket head unit at least it's still at 4 ohms. You can run a 4 ohm speaker off a two ohm amp by matching the impedance if you really want to. To do this just wire a 4 ohm 50 watt resistor in parallel with the speaker. The hard part of this is figuring out where to mount the resistor (the size of chapstick) on a heat shedding surface.
    ....depending on if we are talking about a Camaro or Firebird. Either way, rear sails in each have a 2 ohm impedance.

    Running higher impedance speakers does not change the quality of sound reproduction....I have never seen/heard that to be the case. Only efficiency will suffer a litt, but more efficient speakers than factory make up for any loss in volume (90dB sensitivity or higher).

    You CANNOT change the impedance of a speaker by adding resistors in parallel... Remember that the speaker impedances are nominal - and not fixed as a resistor is (impedance will change with frequency). The impedance of a speaker system in is instead reactive -- meaning it's not just pure resistance obviously...there are inductive and capacitive characteristics very difficult to duplicate.

    The ONLY way to "change" the impedance of a speaker to a different value is by using a transformer.....which is not practical in car audio applications.

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    Not having matched impedance is what puts that tinny sound in mismatched speakers and amps. Not so much, as you pointed out when using a 4 speaker to a 2 amp but should notice with a 2 speaker to a 4 amp(it's way under driving the speaker).

    As for wiring a resistor in parallel. The only resistors that can hold the wattage needed (50w-75w) to run parallel and still be affordable(still $6 a piece) are wire wound(which are really inductors) which their resistance is frequency shifting as well and not too far off of what a speaker does when comparing their current draw on a Oscope. Mostly trying to create is a shunting circuit with this. Perfectly matched no but you're driving the speaker better. Better yet is a cross over or filter. Best bet is the right amp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post

    As for wiring a resistor in parallel. The only resistors that can hold the wattage needed (50w-75w) to run parallel and still be affordable(still $6 a piece) are wire wound(which are really inductors) which their resistance is frequency shifting as well and not too far off of what a speaker does when comparing their current draw on a Oscope. Mostly trying to create is a shunting circuit with this. Perfectly matched no but you're driving the speaker better. Better yet is a cross over or filter. Best bet is the right amp.
    This might make the amplifier happier if you are trying to increase impedance (in series then) since you are meeting power requirements better - however, resistors dissipate energy. Though the power delivered to the speaker changes, the damping factor is hurt which will hurt sound quality much more than using higher impedance speakers would (which doesn't hurt sound quality anyway).

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredmr85 View Post
    This might make the amplifier happier if you are trying to increase impedance (in series then) since you are meeting power requirements better - however, resistors dissipate energy. Though the power delivered to the speaker changes, the damping factor is hurt which will hurt sound quality much more than using higher impedance speakers would (which doesn't hurt sound quality anyway).
    Meant filtering not shunt (Capacitor would be shunt). Certainly wouldn't work in series because of the dissipation. That and the focus is matched not increased. Also wanted to point out so that cursory readers would understand that you can't make a 2 ohm speaker match a 4 ohm amp this way. That''s when you wire two 2 ohm speakers in series(Or as I previously recommended get the right amp)

    As far as mismatched speakers goes they actually do effect sound quality. Whenever you have a mismatch you create noise in the circuit. Rockford Fosgate has those matched wiring crap(the 3 strand thing) for that purpose. Noise reduction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
    As far as mismatched speakers goes they actually do effect sound quality. Whenever you have a mismatch you create noise in the circuit. Rockford Fosgate has those matched wiring crap(the 3 strand thing) for that purpose. Noise reduction.
    Didn't realize we were looking into it that much -- I just assumed you were referring to the fact that it would be getting less power/clarity/etc being the lower "quality". As far as the Monsoon system goes, I have never experienced or read a complaint about sound quality when using speakers of higher impedances. I think either way, it would be an improvement over factory and maybe that's why and noise isn't noticeably audible and there aren't any complaints.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredmr85 View Post
    Didn't realize we were looking into it that much -- I just assumed you were referring to the fact that it would be getting less power/clarity/etc being the lower "quality". As far as the Monsoon system goes, I have never experienced or read a complaint about sound quality when using speakers of higher impedances. I think either way, it would be an improvement over factory and maybe that's why and noise isn't noticeably audible and there aren't any complaints.
    I had complaints. My speakers had an annoying vibrato to them, because I had only changed the rears not the doors. Then looked at the speakers and saw the 2 ohms and slapped myself for being so dumb. Then replaced doors and amp. No more vibrato. Over all unsatisfied with the monsoon amp. I don't give a damn about power so much as long as it makes (decently)clean sound, and that the monsoon did not deliver. Coupled with the I haven't been updated since 1991, Delco headunit, was just killing it. My friend had a 99 I think with a Bose factory unit in it. That was very nice(for factory).

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    Red
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
    I had complaints. My speakers had an annoying vibrato to them, because I had only changed the rears not the doors. Then looked at the speakers and saw the 2 ohms and slapped myself for being so dumb. Then replaced doors and amp. No more vibrato. Over all unsatisfied with the monsoon amp. I don't give a damn about power so much as long as it makes (decently)clean sound, and that the monsoon did not deliver. Coupled with the I haven't been updated since 1991, Delco headunit, was just killing it. My friend had a 99 I think with a Bose factory unit in it. That was very nice(for factory).
    Interesting.

    Yea Delco HU is by far the main cause of distortion in these systems. A '99 what with Bose? Camaros had Bose up until '97 as the "premium" systems -- and yea everyone I have ever heard from prefers the sound of that system over the later Monsoon setups.

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    Could easily be wrong on the year but I was thinking it was a LS1 car. Have seen people rip that system out of wrecked cars and then install it for that factory look, with good sound. Bose knows what the hell they're doing for starters , and GM only ever updates when new technology requires it. So their CD decks remained unchanged since they first built them in 91.

    Oh and now that Fred and I have successfully hijacked your thread Orrin(Sorry!). Rip out the monsoon amp since you're going to replace it anyway why keep the weight. But as I said before don't bother with the wires, they are run in bundles with other wires throughout the car, so unless you really feel like splitting all that electrical tape and then redoing just leave them and run new wires. Get good wires too. Something like Street Wires(their tinned wires are nice but very pricey) or Monster or Fosgate. Better wires help prevent against road and RFI noise. noise bad, sound good! yay sound!

    For the rear speakers I think in your camaro they are subs. As silly as 4in subs may sound they are actually of a halfway decent quality. But if you replace them go with some mids. Mids reflected off the glass sounds nice. Gives a little warmth to the sound. Especially if you can program your head unit with a phase delay for the fronts. Then it's KILLER! You'll have the sound from the back getting there to drift in and round out the driving sound from the fronts and passengers.

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    Red
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post

    For the rear speakers I think in your camaro they are subs. As silly as 4in subs may sound they are actually of a halfway decent quality. But if you replace them go with some mids. Mids reflected off the glass sounds nice. Gives a little warmth to the sound. Especially if you can program your head unit with a phase delay for the fronts. Then it's KILLER! You'll have the sound from the back getting there to drift in and round out the driving sound from the fronts and passengers.
    The 4" in the hatch are more or less full-range speakers (SVC coax in Camaro, components in Firebirds). The sail panels are SVC mid-bass/"subs" in Camaros, and DVC "subs" in Firebirds. I wouldn't worry too much about them since you plan on a sub -- so if you want, could always add some coaxials in the sails and ditch the hatch speakers (unless you prefer a frong stage only). Could always add some more midbass there if you prefer that as well -- CDT M6 or Elemental Designs eu700s are the best choices, IMO (eu700s for Firebirds especially due to being DVC).

    As mentioned several times, don't mess with the wiring...run new wire instead as part or your "project" -- can't go wrong with anything Xenophon listed, or anything over at KnuKonceptz.com.

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