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Monsoon help plz

This is a discussion on Monsoon help plz within the Stereo and Electronics forums, part of the General Help category; BTW anyone having trouble with monsoon head units, i've basically taken them apart and can tell you how to fix ...

  1. #21
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    BTW anyone having trouble with monsoon head units, i've basically taken them apart and can tell you how to fix what may be wrong with it.

  2. #22
    Mudvayne
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadSeason
    simple

    1. Stock Appearence
    2. Use of steering controlls without pricey adaptors
    3. If you have monsoon or bose, you'd have to rewire everything in your car and replace speakers, also ditch the amp in most cases
    4. 12 Disc cd changer won't work without additional adaptors or harnesses
    5. made in the USA
    I'll have to find this write up I saw where you can do 2-4.

    /begins search/

  3. #23
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudvayne
    I'll have to find this write up I saw where you can do 2-4.

    /begins search/
    there's no cheep way around it unless you want to cut factory wires, adaptors are for everything and usually run at a minimum of 15 bucks per each one you need. i know it can be done

  4. #24
    Mudvayne
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadSeason
    there's no cheep way around it unless you want to cut factory wires, adaptors are for everything and usually run at a minimum of 15 bucks per each one you need. i know it can be done
    All you have to do is get a wiring harness, you can still use the stock amp. Only thing that would be expensive is the harness for your steering wheel, I dono where the hell you got the idea you'd have to re-wire everything if you get an aftermarket hu

  5. #25
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudvayne
    All you have to do is get a wiring harness, you can still use the stock amp. Only thing that would be expensive is the harness for your steering wheel, I dono where the hell you got the idea you'd have to re-wire everything if you get an aftermarket hu
    Do you under stand any part of Ohm's Law? Guess not, you're only 17. There are no line level outputs in the harnesses for aftermarket head units to goto the amp and they are not compatiable with the the speakers in the system since they're 2ohm. The only thing an after market head unit will run properly with a harness is the front tweeters and rear fill speakers in the trunk in a monsoon system. The amp won't work right at all and you will have no woofers in the system unless you redneck it and want them to blow often due to mismatched impedance. In a Bose System the speaker crossovers are within the Headunit and will not funtion properly at all without replacing the whole system.

  6. #26
    Mudvayne
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadSeason
    Do you under stand any part of Ohm's Law? Guess not, you're only 17. There are no line level outputs in the harnesses for aftermarket head units to goto the amp and they are not compatiable with the the speakers in the system since they're 2ohm. The only thing an after market head unit will run properly with a harness is the front tweeters and rear fill speakers in the trunk in a monsoon system. The amp won't work right at all and you will have no woofers in the system unless you redneck it and want them to blow often due to mismatched impedance. In a Bose System the speaker crossovers are within the Headunit and will not funtion properly at all without replacing the whole system.
    Yes I do understand ohm's laws (being in a physics and principles of tech class) The monsoon hu is 4 ohms, so it powers the front tweeter and the rear mid/tweeters, then the rest of the system is powered by the amp which runs at 2 ohms So if an aftermarket 4 ohm hu replaces the monsoon hu (already at 4 ohms) it shouldn't make a difference. As long as you have a hu with speaker outputs you'll be fine

    I'll post up the link for you after I get 10 posts
    Last edited by Mudvayne; 11-20-2005 at 08:44 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    An Aftermarket Head Unit doesn't help the fact you're sending double the wattage to the factory speakers that are 4ohm if the Head unit is even at a minimum of 50 watts RMS. The total for the monsoon is 500watts on the model that makes the most power and that's only peak. Peak watts are 75x4 for the woofers, 30x2 for the front tweeters and 30x2 for back, and 40x2 for the mid bass in back. If you want to properly add an aftermarket HU you will need to replace all of those speakers since RMS wattage is usually around 1/3rd peak power, basically saying with that aftermarket head unit you're pumping at a minimum 4 times the amount of power those speakers can properly handle

  8. #28
    Mudvayne
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadSeason
    An Aftermarket Head Unit doesn't help the fact you're sending double the wattage to the factory speakers that are 4ohm if the Head unit is even at a minimum of 50 watts RMS. The total for the monsoon is 500watts on the model that makes the most power and that's only peak. Peak watts are 75x4 for the woofers, 30x2 for the front tweeters and 30x2 for back, and 40x2 for the mid bass in back. If you want to properly add an aftermarket HU you will need to replace all of those speakers since RMS wattage is usually around 1/3rd peak power, basically saying with that aftermarket head unit you're pumping at a minimum 4 times the amount of power those speakers can properly handle
    Now I agree with you

  9. #29
    ruff ruff rotwiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadSeason
    Do you under stand any part of Ohm's Law? Guess not, you're only 17. There are no line level outputs in the harnesses for aftermarket head units to goto the amp and they are not compatiable with the the speakers in the system since they're 2ohm. The only thing an after market head unit will run properly with a harness is the front tweeters and rear fill speakers in the trunk in a monsoon system. The amp won't work right at all and you will have no woofers in the system unless you redneck it and want them to blow often due to mismatched impedance. In a Bose System the speaker crossovers are within the Headunit and will not funtion properly at all without replacing the whole system.
    Originally Posted by MadSeason
    simple

    1. Stock Appearence
    2. Use of steering controlls without pricey adaptors-PAC swi-x $45
    3. If you have monsoon(not true) or bose(true), you'd have to rewire everything in your car and replace speakers, also ditch the amp in most cases
    4. 12 Disc cd changer won't work without additional adaptors or harnesses-can buy one for the aftermarket hu if you want one
    5. made in the USA-? My car was made in Canada, has german shocks, headlight bulbs are made in Japan....Is any newer car %100 US made?

    The Monsoon system does not require any type of special adaptors or line converters like the bose system. The Monsoon deck is 4 ohm, the Monsoon amp in the rear well converts it to a 2ohm load. Simple upgrade for the speakers is a set of Infinity 62.7i kappa's, the Infinity is 2 ohm and has 2 inputs(1 for the 6.5, 1 for the tweeter like the stock Monsoon speakers), connect the 6.5 to the Monsoon and let the built in crossovers work on the mids, wire the highs with the supplied crossover. A pac SWi-x costs about $45 and works great for keeping steering wheel controls. A simple $7 wire harness to not have to cut the factory harness is all you need. I have a Kenwood mp922 and sounds much better than the factory Monsoon hu. The speakers don't distort as fast as with the Monsoon and I can adjust how much bass I want to go through the stock speakers. Hearing about how much better the Infinty 62.7i's sound it will be my next upgrade. I have never blown a stock Monsoon speaker and I listen to it at around 3/4 volume most of the time and actually sounds great compared to stock. I use a Mtx amp and 2 Memphis 10's for my bass in a Millhouse box. I bought the Kenwood mp922 refurbished with warranty and pac swi-x for $150,a $7 harness and a kit for install I found on ebay for $2 plus $2 shipping, and also a antenna adaptor. Since the Kenwood plays mp3's who needs a 12 disc changer. I sold both the Monsoon Hu and changer for around $200. I am a member of 2 major F body clubs in my area and I only know of 1 or 2 people still running a stock HU. If you have ever put one in a car with a Monsoon stereo your whole outlook would change. I was worried when I first wanted to change the HU since I had so many problems with a cadillac I had and a Bose system. The Monsoon is not the same type of system. Firehawks I am pretty sure have a little different wiring for the 6.5's than the Camaro. I have spent hours researching the Monsoon system to ugrade it and never once have seen anyone in 100's of posts complain a aftermarket HU messed up the Monsoon amp or sounded worse than the stock HU.

    You can look at crutchfields, shows all that is needed is a typical 1985-up GM wire harness for the Monsoon they include free or can buy for $9.99 without a hu purchase.
    Last edited by rotwiler; 11-20-2005 at 10:04 PM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    Hey Rot, you replaced the stock speakers, which completely nulls the argument and point I was trying to get across with the kid. I own a camaro with the bose and a firebird with the monsoon. I know how much harnesses and aftermarket systems cost, I put one in the camaro and it sounds awesome. I'm currently upgrading my monsoon and will be replacing the HU, which means I'll replace the speakers, and if i'm going to have those be nice I'm going to go the whole 9 yards and replace the amp for something more powerful. It's a chain reaction that you can't just swap out one thing at once and have it sound nice for a while without taking the risk of damaging the speakers that are currently there. If you underpower or overpower, things will blow. Human ear hears distortion when it's at 10% so by the time your stock speakers are sounding bad, they're long gone.

    My comment about rewiring did not mean pulling new wires, cutting into the harness, ect... It simply ment for bose, you toss it all out. for monsoon, its best to replace it in chunks, not piece by piece or you'll blow aftermarket speakers with the stock HU or vise versa. Also those speakers you bought, they are good, but the tweeters will blow since you're pushing a 2ohm load from the HU to them, it's only a matter of time. If I understood you correctly the Woofer is still being run by the amp, which is fine, but the Monsoon amp also adds a lot of distortion to the woofer system we can't hear

  11. #31
    ruff ruff rotwiler's Avatar
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    I haven't replaced any speakers yet, still all factory except the HU and I put some 4 inch Pioneers in the hatch. I am running a seperate MTX amp with Memphis audio 10's. This week I am ordering some Infinity kappas(62.7i's require less power) I was going to get the seperates, but the 62.7i's are less watts rms and the seperates are 90 watts rms, so using the Monsoon amp should push the lower rms ones better. I did read some posts that people were asking about the 2 ohm tweeters running off the 4 ohm HU and what was said by the audio guru's was that Tweeters vary with their ohms and rarely get down to two ohms of resistance because of the way they are designed, so there wouldn't be a problem running them. The rear seat has a sub only, so I may wait on them. I seen only certain freeair subs work good, but I haven't taken the cover off yet. The fronts for mids and better highs is what I am really after now. I was even thinking about using the rear 4 inch connection and connection a 3 way in the rear seat spots so it runs off the Kenwood. The hu is only something like 25 watts rms, so not sure how much of a improvment it would be if any.

  12. #32
    Junior Member WhiteBird00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadSeason
    Do you under stand any part of Ohm's Law? Guess not, you're only 17. There are no line level outputs in the harnesses for aftermarket head units to goto the amp and they are not compatiable with the the speakers in the system since they're 2ohm. The only thing an after market head unit will run properly with a harness is the front tweeters and rear fill speakers in the trunk in a monsoon system. The amp won't work right at all and you will have no woofers in the system unless you redneck it and want them to blow often due to mismatched impedance. In a Bose System the speaker crossovers are within the Headunit and will not funtion properly at all without replacing the whole system.
    You know, I vowed I wouldn't come back to this site after all the problems (and the loss of post count) but this drivel really needs correction.

    There is absolutely nothing special about a Monsoon head unit. It is simply a Delco radio with an extra label saying Monsoon on the face (some older models don't even have that). The difference in a Monsoon system is all in the amp and speakers. The amp takes speaker-level input from the HU and provides amplified output and crossover function to the 2-ohm speakers (all except the tweeters in coupes, all speakers in convertibles).

    So, you can plug in any GM head unit that fits or any aftermarket HU that has normal 4-ohm speaker-level output. All you need is the harness adapter that comes with the mounting kit (or can be purchased separately for a few dollars). No other modifications are necessary - the HU will provide speaker-level input to the Monsoon amp which will, in turn, power the factory speakers. Regardless of the power capability of the HU, it's the Monsoon amp that will power the speakers so no speaker upgrades are necessary. That's not to say that speaker upgrades can't be done - just that it's not necessary.

    The only way rewiring would be required is if you replace or bypass the Monsoon amp. If you do that then you would also have to consider if the replacement amp is stable into 2-ohms or if you have to change the speakers.

    You are correct that Bose systems are completely different but, even there, you can buy adapters to allow an aftermarket head unit to run with the Bose individually-amplified, high-impedance speakers.

    Sorry, I don't mean to come down too hard here but I hate to see people get misdirected by incorrect information when they come here for help.

  13. #33
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    OMG I didn't realize I was misdirecting people by aready saying what you just did! I never said the monsoon headunit what a god send, it blows chunks in my book and was mearly making sure anybody who swaps it out does it right or they'll be opening their pocket book back up in the future due to improper installation. Go whine to your mamma about your post count, Ed can fix that.

    You apparently didn't read anything I had to say and just bypassed it thinking hey just swap out the head unit and be done with it. You still have to match wattage and ohms up buddy, so shut it...

  14. #34
    Junior Member WhiteBird00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadSeason
    OMG I didn't realize I was misdirecting people by aready saying what you just did! I never said the monsoon headunit what a god send, it blows chunks in my book and was mearly making sure anybody who swaps it out does it right or they'll be opening their pocket book back up in the future due to improper installation. Go whine to your mamma about your post count, Ed can fix that.

    You apparently didn't read anything I had to say and just bypassed it thinking hey just swap out the head unit and be done with it. You still have to match wattage and ohms up buddy, so shut it...
    Now that's exactly the misinformation I was refering to - you don't have to match anything! You just remove the original head unit and plug a new one in. It's as simple as that!

    If, and only if, you want to replace the Monsoon amp then you have to either get a replacement amp that is 2-ohm stable or you have to replace the speakers. If all you want to do is replace the head unit then just replace it. No matching of ohms or watts is necessary because the speakers run off the amp (so they're already matched to the amps output) and the amp takes speaker-level input - no pre-amp output from the replacement head unit is necessary (nor would it work).

    Do a little research before you go shooting your mouth off.

  15. #35
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    The only thing that runs off of the amp are the woofers!, the Head unit supplies power to everything else, if you throw something with more RMS than the speakers can handle its not going to work. My reasearch was done by tearing a couple of Fbody cars up from experience, so you can stop shooting your mouth off

  16. #36
    Junior Member WhiteBird00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadSeason
    The only thing that runs off of the amp are the woofers!, the Head unit supplies power to everything else, if you throw something with more RMS than the speakers can handle its not going to work. My reasearch was done by tearing a couple of Fbody cars up from experience, so you can stop shooting your mouth off
    I guess you didn't look closely enough (nor read my other post). In a coupe all speakers except the front and rear tweeters are powered by the Monsoon amp. In a convertible ALL speakers (including the tweeters) are powered by the amp.

    The Monsoon system will work fine (well, at least as good as it is from the factory) with an aftermarket head unit. There are very, very few head units with built-in amps that would overpower the system. The logical reason for that is that the better, more expensive aftermarket units don't add more power - they add more features and better quality components. This is because the manufacturer knows that the kind of customer buying high-end equipment will be connecting to high-end amps using the unit's pre-amp output. They have no reason to build head units with high-powered output because that's not what their customers are looking for. In fact, the average RMS output for systems at Crutchfield is somewhere around 20 watts RMS x4. The 500 watt (peak) Monsoon system is about 250 watts RMS into 10 speakers for a 25 watt RMS per speaker power capability so they can certainly handle almost any aftermarket head unit's power. (Unfortunately, the distortion from the stock amp would be so bad at that level that nobody would want to listen to it.)

    Almost all aftermarket head units are designed to run with 4-ohm speakers since that has become the industry standard. Guess what? The Monsoon amp and the tweeters are all 4-ohm. So, that's another thing that you don't have to worry about.

    Now, I suppose if you really went looking you might be able to find a head unit that put out 50 watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms (although I've never seen one). This could potentially be a problem. But who goes looking for oddball stuff like that? The average person upgrading is going to buy mainstream equipment from a major manufacturer and have absolutely no problem just plugging it in and using it.

    You're so busy trying to impress people with your "knowledge" that you over-complicate what is really a simple swap. As Freud said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

  17. #37
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    The "average consumer" you are talking about is going to walk into best buy or circuit city and buy a 50x4 rms head unit and blow the cheap 10-15 watt rms speakers. yes a 25rms head unit is better and we established this before you started posting here.

    I did read your whole post and I am not refering to just the convertable. BTW if I was listening to you and just swapped the head unit out, great.. but oh shit now my steering controls don't work. Forgot something did you? But we mentioned that earlier too and you forgot to bring that up like everything else.

    no where did i mention 8ohms in a head unit. if ohms was mentioned anywhere it was when buying replacement speakers. freud also had an obsession with men going after their mother or finding a women like her to have sex with... don't bother me with your "knowledge" of quotes, it doesn't make you look smarter.

    FYI I have a Bachelors of Science and have taken numerous electronic classes, I own the repair manual for the monsoon system. Case in point, I really do know my shit. So stop trying to win an argument with stuff that's already been done and said with.

    I'm done with your trolling, will refer you to Ed if you keep it up, and was only offering my expert advise when entering this thread in the first place. The only one over-complicating anything in this thread is you.

  18. #38
    Junior Member WhiteBird00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadSeason
    The "average consumer" you are talking about is going to walk into best buy or circuit city and buy a 50x4 rms head unit and blow the cheap 10-15 watt rms speakers. yes a 25rms head unit is better and we established this before you started posting here.

    I did read your whole post and I am not refering to just the convertable. BTW if I was listening to you and just swapped the head unit out, great.. but oh shit now my steering controls don't work. Forgot something did you? But we mentioned that earlier too and you forgot to bring that up like everything else.

    no where did i mention 8ohms in a head unit. if ohms was mentioned anywhere it was when buying replacement speakers. freud also had an obsession with men going after their mother or finding a women like her to have sex with... don't bother me with your "knowledge" of quotes, it doesn't make you look smarter.

    FYI I have a Bachelors of Science and have taken numerous electronic classes, I own the repair manual for the monsoon system. Case in point, I really do know my shit. So stop trying to win an argument with stuff that's already been done and said with.

    I'm done with your trolling, will refer you to Ed if you keep it up, and was only offering my expert advise when entering this thread in the first place. The only one over-complicating anything in this thread is you.
    We're obviously not going to see eye-to-eye on this but if you can't stand having anybody disagree with your "expertise" then you need to find something else to do.

    The Monsoon speakers are designed for about 30 watts RMS in order to handle the 25 watt output of the Monsoon system (not the 10-15 watts you guessed at). However, even if somebody were to buy a 50 watt system they would never turn it up enough to damage the speakers because the distortion of the factory amp would be sickening and nearly impossible to listen to.

    You said that all speakers except the woofers are powered by the head unit. I was not just pointing out the convertible (although it's a valid example) but even the coupe has all except the tweeters powered by the amp. That's six out of the 10 elements - two subs and four midrange speakers. So "all except the woofers" is just not correct.

    I mentioned the 8-ohm system as an example of something odd that a consumer would have trouble getting to work if they happened to find one. The point I was making is that your earlier comment about replacing the speakers to match the impedance was incorrect because everything powered off the head unit (tweeters and amplifier input) are 4-ohm which is what the vast majority of aftermarket head units are designed for.

    The Freud comment was an attempt to inject a little humor but I guess it went over your head. I won't debate qualifications with you. I have no doubt that you are an intelligent person with proper training who just happened to be wrong in this case - it happens. Without knowing how old you are I would guess that my own experience likely goes back to when you were still in grade school.

    Aside from all that, I know of dozens of people on both ls1.com and ls1tech.com that have done head unit replacements without any problems. I have done it in my own car and can tell you that the improvement in sound relative to the cost and amount of work involved is well worth it.

    Oh BTW, if you must stoop to threatening sanctions on the board because somebody tells you you're wrong then you need to grow up. Besides, go ahead. I wasn't missing this board before we got a complaint about you on another board and I won't miss it after this either.

  19. #39
    Mudvayne
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    Whitebird00 > * > poop > madseason

  20. #40
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    The Monsoon speakers are designed for about 30 watts RMS in order to handle the 25 watt output of the Monsoon system (not the 10-15 watts you guessed at). However, even if somebody were to buy a 50 watt system they would never turn it up enough to damage the speakers because the distortion of the factory amp would be sickening and nearly impossible to listen to.
    Didn't guess, it's in the repair manual

    You said that all speakers except the woofers are powered by the head unit. I was not just pointing out the convertible (although it's a valid example) but even the coupe has all except the tweeters powered by the amp. That's six out of the 10 elements - two subs and four midrange speakers. So "all except the woofers" is just not correct.
    By Definition, The only thing that classifies as woofers in the manual are the two in the doors and two in the sail panels

    I mentioned the 8-ohm system as an example of something odd that a consumer would have trouble getting to work if they happened to find one. The point I was making is that your earlier comment about replacing the speakers to match the impedance was incorrect because everything powered off the head unit (tweeters and amplifier input) are 4-ohm which is what the vast majority of aftermarket head units are designed for.
    When you buy speakers, most people opt for the 2ways. They can be either 2ohm or 4ohm in most cases. They're either going to end up with mismatched resistance in the tweeter or woofer in the door panel, in which case most people get the 4ohm and run the woofer at 1/2 its avaliable power

    Aside from all that, I know of dozens of people on both ls1.com and ls1tech.com that have done head unit replacements without any problems. I have done it in my own car and can tell you that the improvement in sound relative to the cost and amount of work involved is well worth it.
    Ditto, never said anything against it or created the 11th commandment

    Oh BTW, if you must stoop to threatening sanctions on the board because somebody tells you you're wrong then you need to grow up. Besides, go ahead. I wasn't missing this board before we got a complaint about you on another board and I won't miss it after this either.
    You're so , since this is the only board I post to

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