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Aftermarket Amp Wiring

This is a discussion on Aftermarket Amp Wiring within the Stereo and Electronics forums, part of the General Help category; Alright well I returned my 400W 4 channel amp and went to a 600W 6 channel amp. I'm going to ...

  1. #21
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    Alright well I returned my 400W 4 channel amp and went to a 600W 6 channel amp. I'm going to run the door speakers to 2 channels the rear speakers to 2 channels and them I'm going to run the hatch speakers (speaker and tweeter) to the last 2 channels. The tweeters have an inline filter so I am under the impression they will not need a crossover. The wires they came with have a tag that say to amplifier....Can you even buy crossovers by themself and add them to the system?

    Whats up with running extra wire and looping? Is it to make sure the signal travels and arrives at the same time to all the speakers (if all the wires are the same length)? It's a good idea, just never thought about it....Does it matter that much???

    My amp is now too big to go where the stock monsoon went so I'm going to build an amp box and put it right behind the lip of the back seat. I'll carpet it and hopefully it will blend in well....My car is a t-top car so I stay away from running stuff into the well.

    I've had capacitors before, and never noticed a tremendous improvement on my electrical system, that being said I'm still debating putting one in or should I just upgrade the alternator?


    This install is taking me for ever...while I have everything open I replaced the passenger window motor and still need to do the autotrix fix on it. Going to do the door / weatherstripping mod too...

    Hey where do you guys order interior parts for these cars? I'm finiding it to be PITA to get the little things, like a support stabilizer for the passenger door, cap for the seat belt bolt....Year One doesn't have what I'm looking...

  2. #22
    Electrical Engineer KMdef9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98BlackMambaWS6 View Post
    Alright well I returned my 400W 4 channel amp and went to a 600W 6 channel amp. I'm going to run the door speakers to 2 channels the rear speakers to 2 channels and them I'm going to run the hatch speakers (speaker and tweeter) to the last 2 channels. The tweeters have an inline filter so I am under the impression they will not need a crossover. The wires they came with have a tag that say to amplifier....Can you even buy crossovers by themself and add them to the system?
    Yes you can. I always thought crossover's were better/safer than inline "bass blockers."
    Whats up with running extra wire and looping? Is it to make sure the signal travels and arrives at the same time to all the speakers (if all the wires are the same length)? It's a good idea, just never thought about it....Does it matter that much???
    No, 99% of us can't hear the delay. With a new amped signal, on new (hopefully thicker) wires, they're shouldn't be a delay. The only way a delay would happen is if you amp some speakers and wire the others directly to the HU. But even then, that depends on the amp and it's input impedance.
    My amp is now too big to go where the stock monsoon went so I'm going to build an amp box and put it right behind the lip of the back seat. I'll carpet it and hopefully it will blend in well....My car is a t-top car so I stay away from running stuff into the well.
    You could remove the spare tire and build your amps up there.
    I've had capacitors before, and never noticed a tremendous improvement on my electrical system, that being said I'm still debating putting one in or should I just upgrade the alternator?
    The new alt would be much better than a cap. IMO, upgraded alt > 2 battery setup > cap(s).

    This install is taking me for ever...while I have everything open I replaced the passenger window motor and still need to do the autotrix fix on it. Going to do the door / weatherstripping mod too...

    Hey where do you guys order interior parts for these cars? I'm finiding it to be PITA to get the little things, like a support stabilizer for the passenger door, cap for the seat belt bolt....Year One doesn't have what I'm looking...
    Rockauto has some still I think.
    Answers in bold.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMdef9 View Post
    Answers in bold.
    good look on the answers...

  4. #24
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    The cap is cheaper and easier to do. And i am running one 800 watt amp. I noticed a big difference after I installed mine. It doesn't draw down, and the sub hits harder. With the little sytem that you are going to run, a cap will do the whole trick. You don't need to go with a bigger alt. And a cap is soo easy to install too. The trick with looping the wires is trying to achieve the next level of tuning with a lower level of equipment. Cheating, in other words. You may not need it, but once you hear a time tuned setup, it will open your eyes. And if you can speed up the signal to the sub, you can change the bass focus to the front of the car. Really, it is slowing down the rest of the sytem. Ie, the bass notes will hit in time with your speakers, instead of behind. It takes time for the bass notes to travel to your ear. I got a 10 year old alpine that does all this. Adds so much to the system.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMdef9 View Post
    I have to disagree.

    Caps can help on any system, especially ones that the full charging system isn't in tip top. Or on lower rated alternators.

    A good system has 1 cap per amp, unless it's a 14 farad cap running a couple of 100 w amps.

    Caps don't do anything for multiple batteries, higher rated alternators do. As they require twice the charging of a normal setup, which stock alternators aren't designed to do, regardless of draw.

    people just LOVE to think a cap helps systems and for the life of me i can't figure it out. i learned a long time ago that they didn't do squat... been doing systems for over 18 years....

    Why caps don't do much good - the extremely short and basic version.

    Let's imagine a car with a 12v battery and an alternator putting out 14v. This car also has a 1000watt amp powering some random sub.
    We now add a 1 farad capacitor.

    A 1 farad cap charged to 14v stores about 84 joules.
    Since we have the battery sitting at 12v, the potential (usable power) of the cap is 2v or 12 joules.
    We CANNOT use more than the 12 joules, since that would put the cap below the magical 12v where the battery kicks in.

    In order to use the power stored in the cap, we would have to turn off the alternator, or the power it outputs would somehow have to drop - like if it's overloaded (BAD).

    Note: 1 joule = 1 watt-second. 1000w for one second is 1000 joule.

    Anyway, our 1 farad cap has 12 joules of power we can actually use. this translates into 12 watt-seconds. This can power our 1000w amp for 12/1000s of a second, or 0.012seconds.
    This means that if we charge the cap to 14v, and turn off the alternator, we can play a single test tone of 83hz one single time before the cap becomes useless.


    Since I'm not at all an expert on this, I have neglected to mention ESR and ESL, which would significantly reduce the benefit we get from the cap.
    Because of ESR (ElectroStatic Resistance), an amount of power will be converted into heat in the cap. The more power you try to pull, the more heat and the less useful it is.
    Additionally, the amp will convert some amount of power into heat - all depending on the amp.

    In the end, the cap may give us as much as .005 seconds (single 200hz tone) of power at 1000w amp output, IF the alternator suddenly dies or for some magical reason (it's overloaded, duh) it drops it's output to 12v. If you only run 500W, it would be about 0.01 second or a single 100hz test tone.
    copy and paste this link if it does not work: http://www.welcometotheden.8k.com/caraudio/Captest.pdf
    Last edited by krese; 06-20-2011 at 08:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krese View Post
    people just LOVE to think a cap helps systems and for the life of me i can't figure it out. i learned a long time ago that they didn't do squat... been doing systems for over 18 years....



    copy and paste this link if it does not work: http://www.welcometotheden.8k.com/caraudio/Captest.pdf
    Well, i aint arguing with anyone on here, but i noticed that the lights don't dim, the stereo face doesn't blink, and there is a noticable difference in the deepness of the bass note.

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    Quote Originally Posted by az gt eater View Post
    Well, i aint arguing with anyone on here, but i noticed that the lights don't dim, the stereo face doesn't blink, and there is a noticable difference in the deepness of the bass note.
    Same here. just have to make sure they are charged before use.. .5 for every 500 watts also.. and I believe it's stored power for the lower bass notes.
    Last edited by pbguy357; 06-21-2011 at 01:29 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98BlackMambaWS6 View Post
    I'm not familiar with the "wire hide mod".....

    here is the wire mod. Took me about an hr and half to do. Had to run and get a new bit that's why the extra 30 mins.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/lswon/s...740314/detail/

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by az gt eater View Post
    Well, i aint arguing with anyone on here, but i noticed that the lights don't dim, the stereo face doesn't blink, and there is a noticable difference in the deepness of the bass note.
    caps will just hide the symptoms of your charging system... but it will also put more stress on it at the same time! running 2 batteries is dumb unless you have an awesome charging system(if your alt. can barley handle one battery and an amp(lights dimming) how is it going to handle 2 batteries and an amp?) upgrade your alt. and save yourself time and money!

  10. #30
    Electrical Engineer KMdef9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krese View Post
    people just LOVE to think a cap helps systems and for the life of me i can't figure it out. i learned a long time ago that they didn't do squat... been doing systems for over 18 years....



    copy and paste this link if it does not work: http://www.welcometotheden.8k.com/caraudio/Captest.pdf
    Wow is that information wrong. If the alt is at 14V, then so is your battery and so is your cap. Your battery is only at ~12V when the car is off. Don't know where they were going with this 2v "theory." Ignored everything that was after following that.

    Caps are designed for the initial "hit" and filtering the dirty DC power from the alt to your amp. But it appears that study doesn't know that. I'm not claiming a cap will fix a charging systems problems or make your headlights stop flickering (in every situation), but it has a purpose and serves it. I agree it isn't the best thing for an audio system, but wouldn't consider them a waste.

  11. #31
    Member My00Z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMdef9 View Post
    Wow is that information wrong. If the alt is at 14V, then so is your battery and so is your cap. Your battery is only at ~12V when the car is off. Don't know where they were going with this 2v "theory." Ignored everything that was after following that.

    Caps are designed for the initial "hit" and filtering the dirty DC power from the alt to your amp. But it appears that study doesn't know that. I'm not claiming a cap will fix a charging systems problems or make your headlights stop flickering (in every situation), but it has a purpose and serves it. I agree it isn't the best thing for an audio system, but wouldn't consider them a waste.
    90% of that 14v is running your car and the other 10% is recharging your battery from the initial start up. if your listening to heavy bass then your alt. is going to be stressing on trying to recharge that cap and run your car AND charge that battery... it takes about 7 miles to fully charge your battery back-up after starting the car... i looked into putting a cap in my GF's car but backed out after doing my research and taking a class for car audio... this is just my $0.02...

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMdef9 View Post
    Wow is that information wrong. If the alt is at 14V, then so is your battery and so is your cap. Your battery is only at ~12V when the car is off. Don't know where they were going with this 2v "theory." Ignored everything that was after following that.

    Caps are designed for the initial "hit" and filtering the dirty DC power from the alt to your amp. But it appears that study doesn't know that. I'm not claiming a cap will fix a charging systems problems or make your headlights stop flickering (in every situation), but it has a purpose and serves it. I agree it isn't the best thing for an audio system, but wouldn't consider them a waste.
    placebo effect is strong with this one.

    your batt can NEVER put out more than about 12.6v (normal batts that come in our fbodies that is)

    your alt throws out a bit over 14v and when some of that is used up by things you are running the battery will kick in if needed.
    Last edited by krese; 06-22-2011 at 07:41 AM.

  13. #33
    expensive tires az gt eater's Avatar
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    Well, I would recommend a cap to anyone doing a small amplifier in these f bodies. Am i that far off? And, like I said, it is from personal experience. My cap has a digital display, and it shows the voltage coming down the line. It usually reads 14.6. If i run the stereo with the car off, it shows 12.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by az gt eater View Post
    Well, I would recommend a cap to anyone doing a small amplifier in these f bodies. Am i that far off? And, like I said, it is from personal experience. My cap has a digital display, and it shows the voltage coming down the line. It usually reads 14.6. If i run the stereo with the car off, it shows 12.
    it may read 14.6v but its still putting more stress on the charging system...

  15. #35
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    besides a trailblazer an fbody is the best car, as far as stock charging/electrical components go, i have installed systems in... i have never had lights dim in any fobody install i have done from 100w to 1000w. these cars have decent charging systems from the factory and if your lights dim with a 500w amp then you really do have an issue in your car that needs to be fixed.. could be wires, could be the batt or the alt. best place to start is a deep cycle batt such as an optima.

    my 15+ year old car with a diehard battery and 15+ year old alt is hitting very hard with my 2 12s and a 500w alpine amp with no dimming lights at all.
    96 Trans AM WS6 (only 36k miles): Pacesetter LTs, ORY, magnaflow, !egr, !air, BMR STB, BMR LCAs, UMI SFCs, Alpine type R components up front, 2 12" Alpine type E subs, Alpine CDE-102 deck, Alpine 500m amp

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