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what is this?? pedders fix? maybe somethin else?

This is a discussion on what is this?? pedders fix? maybe somethin else? within the GTO forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; ok i have a 04 GTO w 31k on the clock. ive heard a lot bout pedders and the problems ...

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    HUNTER S. THOMPSON FAN Raoul-Duke's Avatar
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    what is this?? pedders fix? maybe somethin else?

    ok i have a 04 GTO w 31k on the clock. ive heard a lot bout pedders and the problems we goats face. heres my dilemma:
    At speeds over 50mph if i slightly turn the wheel left it will rock my steering wheel back n forth a lil. basically i can hear and feel a wobbling vibration like something is loose near my front driverside tire. its not bad to where others can feel it but if they were driving you def can tell. and when i brake kinda rough from speeds over 60mph or so it will also vibrate and wobble. What can i do to find out what this is or fix it? Does this sound like pedders is for me? Cause i've never done any suspension work except put in my relo brackets and adj lca's in my ol lt1 z28. and it sucked. lol and im afraid this job might be tough to handle
    01 m6 z28 - lid / lt headers / 3' ory w no cats / flowmaster catback w 3' dmh e-cutout / nelson pcm tune

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    Senior Member GOT1GOAT's Avatar
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    04 GTO QuickSilver
    95 MarkVIII wifey white

    How are your tires? Mine does that because the insides are worn. Didn't do it until @ 25k miles on them. I'm waiting on fed-ex to bring my 4 hopefully today. I too will be getting suspension upgrades in the very near future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoul-Duke View Post
    ok i have a 04 GTO w 31k on the clock. ive heard a lot bout pedders and the problems we goats face. heres my dilemma:
    At speeds over 50mph if i slightly turn the wheel left it will rock my steering wheel back n forth a lil. basically i can hear and feel a wobbling vibration like something is loose near my front driverside tire. its not bad to where others can feel it but if they were driving you def can tell. and when i brake kinda rough from speeds over 60mph or so it will also vibrate and wobble. What can i do to find out what this is or fix it? Does this sound like pedders is for me? Cause i've never done any suspension work except put in my relo brackets and adj lca's in my ol lt1 z28. and it sucked. lol and im afraid this job might be tough to handle
    You just described worn out Top Strut Bushings and radius rod bushings. Folks with the inside of their tires wearing or wobble as you described is the POS factory bushings allowing the tire to "wander" all around.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOT1GOAT View Post
    How are your tires? Mine does that because the insides are worn. Didn't do it until @ 25k miles on them. I'm waiting on fed-ex to bring my 4 hopefully today. I too will be getting suspension upgrades in the very near future.
    ehh my front tires are pretty decent actually
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    You just described worn out Top Strut Bushings and radius rod bushings. Folks with the inside of their tires wearing or wobble as you described is the POS factory bushings allowing the tire to "wander" all around.....
    no shit? i'll take your word for it lol. so sarge is this something that can be dangerous to drive on? and how can i go about fixing this the easiest and cheapest way?

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    awww shit looks like im round 500 in the hole. so this happens often on our cars huh? whats the process w the install and how long and difficult do you think itll be? thanks for all of this by the way man. i appreciate it

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    I've seen a 06 with less that 4000 miles and you could take the strut and move it with your hand. I shit you not. The Radius Rod bushings are crap from the factory. Walk in the park to change out....check out the sticky above....the strut bushings/bearings are easy....just get a spring compressor....you can borrow one from AutoZone or NAPA or just buy it...they are cheap as hell....We'll help man....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    I've seen a 06 with less that 4000 miles and you could take the strut and move it with your hand. I shit you not. The Radius Rod bushings are crap from the factory. Walk in the park to change out....check out the sticky above....the strut bushings/bearings are easy....just get a spring compressor....you can borrow one from AutoZone or NAPA or just buy it...they are cheap as hell....We'll help man....
    yeah it sounds sorta tough. but its prob cause i just never did anything like it before. what sticky though? lol. my bad im prob missin it. got shitfaced yest and only had like four hours of sleep n still at work. brain cells arent functioning, you know how it is lol

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Here it is....
    Front End Pedders Install (Pics)
    Or I could not imagine a mechanic would charge more than 4-5 hours plus a wheel alignment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Here it is....
    Front End Pedders Install (Pics)
    Or I could not imagine a mechanic would charge more than 4-5 hours plus a wheel alignment.
    thanks man. hey is there anything i should maybe do. should i do the other side as well??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoul-Duke View Post
    thanks man. hey is there anything i should maybe do. should i do the other side as well??
    If you're talking about the left & right side, then yes, do both sides.
    The Ep9166 radius rod bushes come as a set.
    EP9019 come as a set.
    5851 Strut mounts come single, you'll need 2
    5030 bearings come single, you'll need 2.

    Chances are if one strut mount is gone / weak enough to cause the shaking, the other is pretty close to going as well. Check the strut mounts to see if the ferrules in the mount are still centered? If there are cracks in the rubber or off centered, they're toast.

    Have you checked anything else on the car for the shaking? Do you notice it when turning to the right at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PartsGedder View Post
    If you're talking about the left & right side, then yes, do both sides.
    The Ep9166 radius rod bushes come as a set.
    EP9019 come as a set.
    5851 Strut mounts come single, you'll need 2
    5030 bearings come single, you'll need 2.

    Chances are if one strut mount is gone / weak enough to cause the shaking, the other is pretty close to going as well. Check the strut mounts to see if the ferrules in the mount are still centered? If there are cracks in the rubber or off centered, they're toast.

    Have you checked anything else on the car for the shaking? Do you notice it when turning to the right at all?

    they come in sets? the site that sarge posted looked like everything was sold separately. but no i dont feel any shaking except when i go left. i went under the car cause i just put in some 5000k fog lights from xenonlink.com. those nice bright yellow ones. but anyways i looked at the bushings. they kinda looked normal but that was with em bolted down. if i get em in sets then ill def be doin both sides. is there any other suspension shit thats gonna be fucking up in the future that i should know about as well? lol

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    EP9166 = 2 bushes per pkg, EP9019 = 2 bushes per pkg.. One pkg of each to do the car. Bearing & mounts are single.

    The mounts can be checked by removing the nut and the top plate and using a flashlight, looking at them for the wear and cracks from the top.

    As far as the future.....

    Let's start with the suspension pieces on the GTO that are the weakest links.

    1. Radius Rod Bushes (front) EP9166
    2. x member bushes (rear) EP1145
    3. Differential Mount (rear) EP1157
    4. Rear coils
    5. Strut Mounts (5851) - replace the 5030 bearings at the same time
    6. Struts

    The GTO radius rod bushes allow large dynamic castor changes with excessive motion. The OE x member bushes contribute to wheel hop at the strip as does the voided differential mount. The rear coils are in a motion ratio of roughly 5 to 1 o the little sag that occurs in the OE rear coil creates a substantial drop in ride height. They are also low in rate and squat like a bandit under acceleration. They contribute to wheel hop and poor traction on launch. The struts are, as mentioned earlier, oil and air units and not well matched to the oil and gas rear shocks. They are low in terms of valving on the critical damping scale. The struts mounts wear and combined with the radius rod bushes allow so much motion that front tire wear is an issue on the GTO.

    A bad as all this sounds the fixes are not that bad. If you choose to upgrade your coils you can use Pedders 7643 OE height coils. They are higher in rate than the OE oil and match up rather well with the OE front coils. Re-use your OE front coils with Pedders CG struts and Pedders strut mounts, Your car is now vastly improved. You can add more upgrades and if your budget allows install Pedders EP9166 Radius Rod Bushes along with Pedders CG rear shocks and you will have a different car without breaking the bank.

    The radius rod bushes are fairly easy to do, as well as the strut mounts and bearings. The EP9019 you'll need a press to press them out if you're going to do them. The replacement are 2 piece and go back in no problem.

    Mike Haddad in Inglewood is the closest pedders dealer to Burbank, if you choose to go the dealer route. Pedders Dealer

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    Quote Originally Posted by PartsGedder View Post
    EP9166 = 2 bushes per pkg, EP9019 = 2 bushes per pkg.. One pkg of each to do the car. Bearing & mounts are single.

    The mounts can be checked by removing the nut and the top plate and using a flashlight, looking at them for the wear and cracks from the top.

    As far as the future.....

    Let's start with the suspension pieces on the GTO that are the weakest links.

    1. Radius Rod Bushes (front) EP9166
    2. x member bushes (rear) EP1145
    3. Differential Mount (rear) EP1157
    4. Rear coils
    5. Strut Mounts (5851) - replace the 5030 bearings at the same time
    6. Struts

    The GTO radius rod bushes allow large dynamic castor changes with excessive motion. The OE x member bushes contribute to wheel hop at the strip as does the voided differential mount. The rear coils are in a motion ratio of roughly 5 to 1 o the little sag that occurs in the OE rear coil creates a substantial drop in ride height. They are also low in rate and squat like a bandit under acceleration. They contribute to wheel hop and poor traction on launch. The struts are, as mentioned earlier, oil and air units and not well matched to the oil and gas rear shocks. They are low in terms of valving on the critical damping scale. The struts mounts wear and combined with the radius rod bushes allow so much motion that front tire wear is an issue on the GTO.

    A bad as all this sounds the fixes are not that bad. If you choose to upgrade your coils you can use Pedders 7643 OE height coils. They are higher in rate than the OE oil and match up rather well with the OE front coils. Re-use your OE front coils with Pedders CG struts and Pedders strut mounts, Your car is now vastly improved. You can add more upgrades and if your budget allows install Pedders EP9166 Radius Rod Bushes along with Pedders CG rear shocks and you will have a different car without breaking the bank.

    The radius rod bushes are fairly easy to do, as well as the strut mounts and bearings. The EP9019 you'll need a press to press them out if you're going to do them. The replacement are 2 piece and go back in no problem.

    Mike Haddad in Inglewood is the closest pedders dealer to Burbank, if you choose to go the dealer route. Pedders Dealer
    hmm i see looks pretty expensive for all that. im not gonna lie, im kinda pissed that you have to do all this extra crap for gto's that are barely broken in. but whatev. soo what would i need for my front to stop the shaking? and thanks yeah inglewood isnt too far i think from where i live. should work out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoul-Duke View Post
    hmm i see looks pretty expensive for all that. im not gonna lie, im kinda pissed that you have to do all this extra crap for gto's that are barely broken in. but whatev. soo what would i need for my front to stop the shaking? and thanks yeah inglewood isnt too far i think from where i live. should work out

    Attached is another link for a shimmy issue in this forum. Try out what Justice Pete said about cleaning the hubs and the back of the rim and rotating the rim 3 lugs over on the hub.

    New Pedders cross member bushings installed

    "The GTO has modest size hub faces and is suceptable to hub / hat / wheel distirtion form uneven torque, rust, corrosion and crud.

    Replace nothing. Dissassemble your front rotor / hubs. Remove the rotor and clean the hub face until it look like new. Clean the back of the rotor hat and reinstall the rotor with a two lug turn. With the out portion of the rotor hat as clean as new and the back of the wheel clean as new put it on three lugs over. Tighten thre lugs in a triangular patter finger tight. Snug them up incrementally and slowly. Use a good quality torque wrnech and bring the lugs up to 90 pounds in five lug increments. Your shimmy should be gone.

    Asssuming the front wheels are in balance you should be good to go for 3 to 5k. When the shimmy returns just rotate the wheel and CAREFULLY retorque them. The GTO has modest size hub faces and is suceptable to hub / hat / wheel distirtion form uneven torque, rust, corrosion and crud."

    There are a bunch of options, I'd start least expensive and easy (clean and reposition the rims on the hubs), then if it's still is there, check for worn strut mounts and radius rod bushes & get it checked by a shop if nothing jumps out at you as being bad. Depending on the condition of the car, it could be an easy DIY fix. The 5 points above were what a we see one regular basis as being weak links (suspension wise) on the GTO, not saying yours are automatically worn and need to be replaced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PartsGedder View Post
    Attached is another link for a shimmy issue in this forum. Try out what Justice Pete said about cleaning the hubs and the back of the rim and rotating the rim 3 lugs over on the hub.

    New Pedders cross member bushings installed

    "The GTO has modest size hub faces and is suceptable to hub / hat / wheel distirtion form uneven torque, rust, corrosion and crud.

    Replace nothing. Dissassemble your front rotor / hubs. Remove the rotor and clean the hub face until it look like new. Clean the back of the rotor hat and reinstall the rotor with a two lug turn. With the out portion of the rotor hat as clean as new and the back of the wheel clean as new put it on three lugs over. Tighten thre lugs in a triangular patter finger tight. Snug them up incrementally and slowly. Use a good quality torque wrnech and bring the lugs up to 90 pounds in five lug increments. Your shimmy should be gone.

    Asssuming the front wheels are in balance you should be good to go for 3 to 5k. When the shimmy returns just rotate the wheel and CAREFULLY retorque them. The GTO has modest size hub faces and is suceptable to hub / hat / wheel distirtion form uneven torque, rust, corrosion and crud."

    There are a bunch of options, I'd start least expensive and easy (clean and reposition the rims on the hubs), then if it's still is there, check for worn strut mounts and radius rod bushes & get it checked by a shop if nothing jumps out at you as being bad. Depending on the condition of the car, it could be an easy DIY fix. The 5 points above were what a we see one regular basis as being weak links (suspension wise) on the GTO, not saying yours are automatically worn and need to be replaced.
    hmm i see what your sayin. soo do you think it can really just be my rotors? thats what i first thought when i braked and it shook but i just half assed checked my rotors w the wheel still on with my hands to look for any worn signs and they looked fine. but maybe what your sayin is something that i have to get in there with and fiddle around. man i hate this,lol

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    It could be a lot of things...the rotors are a good place to start, clean 'em up and spin them to see if it wobbles, (you may not). Check the brakes as well while you have the wheel off. While your there, take a look at the radius rod bushes for oil leaks. Check the inside of the tire tread to see if it's wearing even. Reposition the rim on the hub. Repeat other side, and take it for a drive.

    Sounds like a lot, but it's least expensive. You can borrow a torque wrench from an auto parts store or buy one and add it to the "necessary items" list. While the wheel is off the ground and on jack stands, push and pull on the top and bottom (12 o'clock & 6 o'clock) to see if moves or makes a clunk, it could be a ball joint, probably not the issue, but is a quick check while you're there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PartsGedder View Post
    It could be a lot of things...the rotors are a good place to start, clean 'em up and spin them to see if it wobbles, (you may not). Check the brakes as well while you have the wheel off. While your there, take a look at the radius rod bushes for oil leaks. Check the inside of the tire tread to see if it's wearing even. Reposition the rim on the hub. Repeat other side, and take it for a drive.

    Sounds like a lot, but it's least expensive. You can borrow a torque wrench from an auto parts store or buy one and add it to the "necessary items" list. While the wheel is off the ground and on jack stands, push and pull on the top and bottom (12 o'clock & 6 o'clock) to see if moves or makes a clunk, it could be a ball joint, probably not the issue, but is a quick check while you're there.
    man that it seems like a headache cause i really dont know what to look for but im def gonna do this before i drop 500 bucks on parts that i may not need just yet. its just tough cause i really dont know what to look for. i could be looking right at the problem and not know it but i will take your advice and do what you say. im also worried if i take it to a mechanic their gonna just gonna charge me a shitload and not fix anything

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoul-Duke View Post
    man that it seems like a headache cause i really dont know what to look for but im def gonna do this before i drop 500 bucks on parts that i may not need just yet. its just tough cause i really dont know what to look for. i could be looking right at the problem and not know it but i will take your advice and do what you say. im also worried if i take it to a mechanic their gonna just gonna charge me a shitload and not fix anything
    Look at it this way...

    You pulled the tire off, cleaned everything up, repositioned and re-torqued the tire, and checked the radius rods for leaks by looking for oily dirt where they leaked and also looked for cracks and anything that JDLR (just doesn't look right) on them.

    You also tried to move the tire to see if it clunked a bit. (ball joint).

    You also looked at the rotor for grooves that shouldn't there.

    So, If it's as simple as the wheel being torqued wrong and a little cruddy,it's clean and fixed and you have a good idea of what's under your car the next time you check this again in 3000-5000 miles. If you see something that makes you un-easy, or is still shaking under braking or turning, have it checked by a shop. Also note the tire wear (take a pic) and the mileage. Now you have a reference if you see something developing later on.

    Same for the strut mounts. Use a 24mm deep socket and check it for spring back. Move it about a 1/8 - 1/4 turn (tighten), It should have some tension and spring back. Then take the nut and the top plate off and look for cracks in the rubber in the top of the strut mount (use a flashlight). No need to remove the 2nd nut, your just looking at the mount. No cracks = no worries. Take a good pic for reference later - establish a reference. Put the plate and nut back on.

    Take your time, look around under there, get an idea of what it's like for future reference.

    BTW - You're also working on & driving 1 in only 40,000 GTO's, this should be fun!!! Have a good time with this.

    Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PartsGedder View Post
    Look at it this way...

    You pulled the tire off, cleaned everything up, repositioned and re-torqued the tire, and checked the radius rods for leaks by looking for oily dirt where they leaked and also looked for cracks and anything that JDLR (just doesn't look right) on them.

    You also tried to move the tire to see if it clunked a bit. (ball joint).

    You also looked at the rotor for grooves that shouldn't there.

    So, If it's as simple as the wheel being torqued wrong and a little cruddy,it's clean and fixed and you have a good idea of what's under your car the next time you check this again in 3000-5000 miles. If you see something that makes you un-easy, or is still shaking under braking or turning, have it checked by a shop. Also note the tire wear (take a pic) and the mileage. Now you have a reference if you see something developing later on.

    Same for the strut mounts. Use a 24mm deep socket and check it for spring back. Move it about a 1/8 - 1/4 turn (tighten), It should have some tension and spring back. Then take the nut and the top plate off and look for cracks in the rubber in the top of the strut mount (use a flashlight). No need to remove the 2nd nut, your just looking at the mount. No cracks = no worries. Take a good pic for reference later - establish a reference. Put the plate and nut back on.

    Take your time, look around under there, get an idea of what it's like for future reference.

    BTW - You're also working on & driving 1 in only 40,000 GTO's, this should be fun!!! Have a good time with this.

    Cheers!
    lol, thanks man. im gonna do this tomorrow if its nice still. and im gonna post pics back up here of every lil thing that it could be in that area and ill let you and sarge be the judges. thanks again though

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