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Suspension Upgrades

This is a discussion on Suspension Upgrades within the GTO forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by derbs How much did you have to pay him. Oh ...not much...just ban one asswipe....so there....one asswipe ...

  1. #21
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derbs View Post
    How much did you have to pay him.
    Oh ...not much...just ban one asswipe....so there....one asswipe gone.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by EZGTO View Post
    I appreciate the help guys. Any tips on getting the alignment done or just go with the standard OE alignment for the goat? Again, I don't plan on going to the track and racing.

    I saw this thread where a guy actually got his front end aligned per the Pedder's specs. Is this necessary for just changing a few bushings?

    http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=356278

    The front radius rods will change the castor setting when they are replaced. If you change the OE strut mounts, it moves the top of the strut which changes the alignment. Any time you take apart the suspension, an alignment is suggested. Sway bar bushes & endlink bushes you won't need an alignment because you didn't take apart any of the mounts. If you drop the rear cradle for the rear diff and the subframe, definately get an alignment.

    A good alignment compliments the suspension work. If the car has a bad alignment and good bushes, it still handles poorly.

    If you have the opportunity, do the front radius rod bushes and the strut mounts at the same time and get one front alignment. It's more work to do both, but you don't have to do the alignment again. Do the work yourself, the radius rod bushes take an hour, the strut mounts for both sides will take a couple hours. The rest of the suspension is pretty straight forward and we're here to help you out.

  3. #23
    Junior Member EZGTO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PartsGedder View Post
    The front radius rods will change the castor setting when they are replaced. If you change the OE strut mounts, it moves the top of the strut which changes the alignment. Any time you take apart the suspension, an alignment is suggested. Sway bar bushes & endlink bushes you won't need an alignment because you didn't take apart any of the mounts. If you drop the rear cradle for the rear diff and the subframe, definately get an alignment.

    A good alignment compliments the suspension work. If the car has a bad alignment and good bushes, it still handles poorly.

    If you have the opportunity, do the front radius rod bushes and the strut mounts at the same time and get one front alignment. It's more work to do both, but you don't have to do the alignment again. Do the work yourself, the radius rod bushes take an hour, the strut mounts for both sides will take a couple hours. The rest of the suspension is pretty straight forward and we're here to help you out.
    Thanks that's good info. I really appreciate it.

  4. #24
    Senior Member qwkgto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    Originally Posted by PartsGedder
    The OE rubber bushes were designed for reduced noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH).

    this was built into the GTO almost as a DEtune to improve the ride quality because the Monero (GTO) was built to compete with the BMWs.....basicly taking a realitively good suspension and making it sloppy to make it feel more "cushy"

    I have seen comparisions of the Pedders and others and I will say that Pedders is top tier and out lasted others, but my wallet just wasn't that deep at the time.
    Ordered a master energy suspension kit last nite from autozone,comes with the cradle bushings,I dont need them so ill sell them ,I have BMR frame ties they came with those so ive had them in my car for several years,maybe thats why it launches like it does

  5. #25
    Senior Member qwkgto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Got a bug up your ass do you?
    If you can read and comprehend you will find I never advocated the oil exercise solely for the purpose of MPG savings. The benefits are lubrication of the fueling system for longevity and proper performance. The side effects of course were cleaning that resulted in many seeing better gas mileage.
    But I know many trolls struggle with reading and comprehension.....
    Makes sence to me hell back when we had real gas with octain it had oil in it to lube the top end on the motor, top end being the valve train like the valves and seat,that kept them from beating the hell out of the valve seats,ive used the lucas stuff in my gas,lil pricey but I dont use it all that often and i buy it in bulk, it can also be used in My JD deisel tractor, keeps it clean as well.

  6. #26
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    I bet you would also say that reducing unsprung mass will do nothing to change the suspension kinematics and is a worthless mod as well....won't help a bit....maybe you need to take a couple of suspension engineering classes and freshen-up your technical knowledge. As a suspension and chassis engineer, I find your opinions unfounded to say the least.

    What the fela's are trying to say here is that the Pedders radius rod bushing set will allow you to 'tune in' the caster/camber to achieve a better set-up. Here is some basic info:

    Positive camber: The bottoms of the wheels are closer together than the tops. Negative camber: The tops of the wheels are closer together than the bottoms. When a suspension does not gain camber during deflection, this causes a severe positive camber condition when the car leans during cornering. This can cause funky handling. Fight the funk: A suspension that gains camber during deflection will compensate for body roll. Tuning dynamic camber angles is one of the black arts of suspension tuning.

    I won't even get into contact patch optimization or the effect that bushing durometer has on NVH and rebound rates, scrub radius, steering axis inclination, thrust angle, setback....

    If you want REAL technical info., send me a PM and I will provide you with a technical paper that goes into much more detail on this and other areas of suspension engineering.

    Opinions without data are like assholes, everybody has one!

    Quote Originally Posted by derbs View Post
    putting new bushings in the sway bar end links are worthless. I wouldn't follow that write up he posted get the energy kit and some lovells rr bushings don't listen to a guy that puts 2 stroke oil in his gas to save .0000002 miles per gallon in his cars.
    Last edited by surfinjoe; 03-10-2010 at 02:19 PM.

  7. #27
    Member derbs's Avatar
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    I'm talking about putting bushings in the sway bar end links pay the coin and get yourself some solid HD end links that don't use bushings. Your going to have to take them off even with changing bushing so wont hurt to change out the whole damn end link it's self.

  8. #28
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    I would rather spend the coin on the crap radius rod bushings & X-member bushings. More bang for the $$, and you can tune the caster/camber/alignment to get your car to where it should have been from GM. If you have a few bucks left over, get the sway bar bushings and if you have enough pay for HD end links.

    When I was setting-up my suspension, I first changed the sway bar bushings to PP and noticed a little less roll in the corners. Then I installed the HD end links and I couldn't even tell the difference. Just my $0.02. My SOTP data is again worthless so take it at face value.

    Quote Originally Posted by derbs View Post
    I'm talking about putting bushings in the sway bar end links pay the coin and get yourself some solid HD end links that don't use bushings. Your going to have to take them off even with changing bushing so wont hurt to change out the whole damn end link it's self.

  9. #29
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    Did you notice a much stiffer ride with the BMR frame ties (subframe connectors)? I installed a set on my 00 SS and it made her ride like a BEAST. She would jump lanes like a SOB (thanks to the Grand Canyon size ruts in our Michigan roads). It made the car too much to handle as a daily driver.

    Quote Originally Posted by qwkgto View Post
    Ordered a master energy suspension kit last nite from autozone,comes with the cradle bushings,I dont need them so ill sell them ,I have BMR frame ties they came with those so ive had them in my car for several years,maybe thats why it launches like it does

  10. #30
    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfinjoe View Post
    Did you notice a much stiffer ride with the BMR frame ties (subframe connectors)? I installed a set on my 00 SS and it made her ride like a BEAST. She would jump lanes like a SOB (thanks to the Grand Canyon size ruts in our Michigan roads). It made the car too much to handle as a daily driver.
    Kind of off track, but when I swaped out my power steering for the Flaming River manual Omni rack I gained an incredible amount of control and the car nolonger wanders like it did before.... No play in the rack like the stock one and 4 turns lock to lock instead of 2 1/2 like the power unit.
    It was alittle strange driving it at first though lol

  11. #31
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    Heres what I ending up doing last year.
    04-06 GTO Weekend Warrior I
    Weekend Warrior I includes LOVELLS X82047 Radius Rod Front Caster Adjustable Bushings N92350 Cross member Bushings N92616 Differential Insert

    Price: $369.99

    $129.99 for the no bush endlinks.

    $21.99 for the front sway bar bushings.

    $159.99 for the poly strut mounts and bearings.

    Only thing I noticed after the install is I can feel the road like a mother roads here in iowa blow. After doing all this I wont be gaining the full affect untill the BC racing coil over kit comes in. If you guys want anymore info on that kit PM me the price is 600 bucks cheaper then the pedders XA and made at the same place.
    Last edited by derbs; 03-11-2010 at 08:26 AM.

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