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real world performance upgrades

This is a discussion on real world performance upgrades within the GTO forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; HaHa!!...

  1. #21
    Member Texas Jack's Avatar
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    HaHa!!

  2. #22
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    LT are bolt ons and produce power.
    Free up the air flow= additional power ala cold air intake
    So I am a little confused by the "do not add power" statement but "free up power"....I dunno what that means unless ol 6.0ImportEater means bolt ons like suspension stuff? Then I agree you increase performance but not power.
    Let's be civil with one another guys. We can disagree and discuss as big people all at the same time.

  3. #23
    Member 6.0LiterImportEater's Avatar
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    Well bolt-ons are not creating any power. Like for example you throw headers on which allows better flow/exit of the exhaust from the engine (less restrictive). Your engine always had the ability of that power but was restricted. Thus why I always say bolt-ons "free horesepower" cause your not creating any just utilizing what you already have there.

    You create more power from stroking the motor (more displacement), more aggressive cam, or pounding more air into it (boost = lame haha).

    You do utilize more power with these modifications but it is nothing mind blowing. Just like most everyone says about imports...slap a fart can on and think they are fast. Same principles we are talking about but somewhat hypocritical. Bolt-ons are a great starter since bigger additons will benefit from them but just alone your not going to notice much of a difference. Thus the reason I recommend LT's and a more aggresive cam. Much more bang for your buck!

    I also agree that the GTO weak link is planting the power and suspension mods like Koni's in the rear and bushings is great to actually "utilize" what you have.

  4. #24
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Well OK. I dont agree inasmuch as I can put LT's on and I do make more power. But I understand your viewpoint is I "released" more power and did not create more power. But in the same breath you say if you Stroke a motor (non squared) I make power. But if I stroke the same block didnt I just "release" power? See now you got an old man all fucked up
    If I add something and I make more power I really diont give a shit if I created it or released it......I just wanna go fast LOL...you kids...

  5. #25
    Smiles for 9.5 Years cammed goat's Avatar
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    Hey Sarge, ya notice a difference with the AMSOil in the diff? My car feels better than it did before. Or maybe it's just me?


    extreme dimensions, driveshaft shop, harrop, hid(35watt/6k) lows, hurst, k&n, led fogs, maverick man, mishimoto, nitto, revshift, slp, stern st-1, smoked sidemarkers, whiteline poly radius rod bushings

  6. #26
    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    another thing to think about is tge weight of our cars....they are heavy, and the more weight you take out of it the quicker it will be.

    depending on how far you want to take it you can take out the tow bar, trunk carpet, gastank cage, spare, jack, interior carpet, seats (our stock front seat are nice, but very heavy).
    racing seat save a lot of weight and move your 40 lb battery to the passenger side of the trunk (Sarge has a good writeup on bat relocating).
    subframe conectors stiffen things up a lot to aid traction.

  7. #27
    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    Sarge I had a thought.
    I'm going to build a bar to run from side to side behind the front seats along the floor, over the tunnel and bolt in where the stock seatbelts bolted in the B-pillar just off the floor.
    this will give me a better place to mount my 5 point harnesses than current location( bolted into rear seat mount)
    do you think I should make a bracket to tie the SFCs into this cross brace? do you think it would help stiffen things up?

    I'd ditch the backseat and run a full cage, but I need a spot to strap my son's car seat in lol

  8. #28
    Member c5z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Well OK. I dont agree inasmuch as I can put LT's on and I do make more power. But I understand your viewpoint is I "released" more power and did not create more power. But in the same breath you say if you Stroke a motor (non squared) I make power. But if I stroke the same block didnt I just "release" power? See now you got an old man all fucked up
    If I add something and I make more power I really diont give a shit if I created it or released it......I just wanna go fast LOL...you kids...
    I'm a little dissapointed you didn't rip someones head off there-I'm going to pull out the royal purple stickers.

  9. #29
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Nah....just trying to see what in the hell the kid is talking about....Free forum man....everybody has a viewpoint....if he wants to say you "free" power instead of making it I'm good.

  10. #30
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cammed goat View Post
    Hey Sarge, ya notice a difference with the AMSOil in the diff? My car feels better than it did before. Or maybe it's just me?
    I dunno. When I wash and wax Oprah's black ass I swear she runs better.

  11. #31
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    another thing to think about is tge weight of our cars....they are heavy, and the more weight you take out of it the quicker it will be.

    depending on how far you want to take it you can take out the tow bar, trunk carpet, gastank cage, spare, jack, interior carpet, seats (our stock front seat are nice, but very heavy).
    racing seat save a lot of weight and move your 40 lb battery to the passenger side of the trunk (Sarge has a good writeup on bat relocating).
    subframe conectors stiffen things up a lot to aid traction.
    Yup. If I cut my dick off I could be in the 9's. So I am happy with the 10's.

  12. #32
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    Sarge I had a thought.
    I'm going to build a bar to run from side to side behind the front seats along the floor, over the tunnel and bolt in where the stock seatbelts bolted in the B-pillar just off the floor.
    this will give me a better place to mount my 5 point harnesses than current location( bolted into rear seat mount)
    do you think I should make a bracket to tie the SFCs into this cross brace? do you think it would help stiffen things up?

    I'd ditch the backseat and run a full cage, but I need a spot to strap my son's car seat in lol
    I have a 5 point harness and a roll cage. My Grandson rides in the back all the time as the cross bar comes out. No hassle at all.

  13. #33
    Member Texas Jack's Avatar
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    LOL, Best laugh all day, spare the dick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  14. #34
    Smiles for 9.5 Years cammed goat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    I dunno. When I wash and wax Oprah's black ass I swear she runs better.

  15. #35
    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    when did there start being a difference between freeing up horsepower and making horsepower? The potential for x amount of HP is always there. You're always freeing it up no matter what you do. I think that's splitting hairs a little. Swap a cam and you're just freeing up HP that the bore and stroke were capable of producing. Stroke the motor and you're just freeing up HP that the block was capable of producing. Where does it end? Bolt ons make HP...some more than others. Whether you consider that freeing it up or making it the end result is bolt ons = HP.
    I wouldn't go by manufacturers or magazine claims either. I ran a guy in a cobra some years back and we pulled over and chatted a bit. I asked him how much HP he thought he was putting to the ground. This guy started rattling off magazine bullshit and that's what his rwhp was.

  16. #36
    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Yup. If I cut my dick off I could be in the 9's. So I am happy with the 10's.
    lol there are some things I won't give up for more speed

  17. #37
    Member c5z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Yup. If I cut my dick off I could be in the 9's. So I am happy with the 10's.
    My 3rd sig

  18. #38
    Member 6.0LiterImportEater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    when did there start being a difference between freeing up horsepower and making horsepower? The potential for x amount of HP is always there. You're always freeing it up no matter what you do. I think that's splitting hairs a little. Swap a cam and you're just freeing up HP that the bore and stroke were capable of producing. Stroke the motor and you're just freeing up HP that the block was capable of producing. Where does it end? Bolt ons make HP...some more than others. Whether you consider that freeing it up or making it the end result is bolt ons = HP.
    I wouldn't go by manufacturers or magazine claims either. I ran a guy in a cobra some years back and we pulled over and chatted a bit. I asked him how much HP he thought he was putting to the ground. This guy started rattling off magazine bullshit and that's what his rwhp was.
    Bolt-ons are not changing your motor. Bolt-ons allow your motor to perform with less restrictions. These less restrictions give you more power but you have to alter you engine to actually create more power.

    I know this is somewhat confusing but I like explaining it this way for the point you made. The magazines or companies that produce these products state bull in terms of power gains. You really don't achieve much of a gain with bolt-ons since your just unrestricting your engine. Just sick of those who say "well my headers give me 35 hp, then my CAI intake gives me 15 hp, and my catback gives me 10 hp! So my car is pushing 60 more hp than stock!". Absolute garbage.....not true. You just can't get those gains with bolt-ons. You need to alter your engine to produce more power that talks in my book.

  19. #39
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    I agree on manufacturers "claims" of gains is bullshit. If that were true I could change to Royal Purple and "gain" horsepower and we all know that is bullshit.
    However.....I do gain real horsepower from a CAI allowing more air flow....now is it 15RWHP....hell no....But it is real HP gain.
    Bottom line is I see what your saying. I agree you cannot "magazine dyno" based on what bolt ons you have. Flip side is you do gain real horsepower of some kind with the bolt ons.

  20. #40
    Member 6.0LiterImportEater's Avatar
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    I totally agree and never once stated you don't gain horsepower with bolt-ons. My original statement is that just bolt-ons won't impress you. Yea it sounds better and you feel a "slight" pick-up but nothing mind blowing.

    From everything I know and seen about our cars is the cam plays the biggest role on a noticeable power gain especially considering cost thus the reason for my original recommendation of LT's and a cam.

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