Page 9 of 19 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 370

PCV/Catch Can/Crank Pressure

This is a discussion on PCV/Catch Can/Crank Pressure within the GTO forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by shady milkman oil doesn't make the "clean side" dirty..its the crankcase fumes that determines that. its the ...

  1. #161
    I flame retards CamaroFan71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Baton Rouge, La.
    Posts
    1,068

    QuickSilverMetallic
    2005 GTO M6

    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    oil doesn't make the "clean side" dirty..its the crankcase fumes that determines that. its the fact that the clean side gets its name from the clean air coming off the throttle body into the valve cover ..compared to the dirty side..where it doesnt get "injected" with clean air..it gets the used "dirty" fumes and routes it to the pcv valve etc...plus your build is no were NEAR! a stock or mild set up where a breather is not needed...i agree 100% that your build would need that extra ventilation..and you have it set up great. but i would say for 98% of us its overkill to say the least..where a 100 buck catch can is all that is needed..or just a pcv valve change.
    That catch can you posted the link too a couple of pages back is a good one?

  2. #162
    Member devil6rr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    440

    SOM / NBM
    2002 Pro Z28/2001 TurboTA

    I just got the "Elite Can " its really nice but a bit pricey

  3. #163
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Texas Department of Corrections
    Posts
    18,129
    Retired Outlaw Sum Bitch

    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    a f-body ? 2000s had the same set up..it was the 01's-02s that got the ls6 style pcv system.
    I realize that but your posting this shit in the GTO section and confusing everybody.

  4. #164
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Texas Department of Corrections
    Posts
    18,129
    Retired Outlaw Sum Bitch

    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    oil doesn't make the "clean side" dirty..its the crankcase fumes that determines that. its the fact that the clean side gets its name from the clean air coming off the throttle body into the valve cover ..compared to the dirty side..where it doesnt get "injected" with clean air..it gets the used "dirty" fumes and routes it to the pcv valve etc...plus your build is no were NEAR! a stock or mild set up where a breather is not needed...i agree 100% that your build would need that extra ventilation..and you have it set up great. but i would say for 98% of us its overkill to say the least..where a 100 buck catch can is all that is needed..or just a pcv valve change.
    Again Shady...you are confusing FBody setups with the Goats and posting in the wrong section man.

  5. #165
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    a f-body ? 2000s had the same set up..it was the 01's-02s that got the ls6 style pcv system.
    We shouldn't be discussing this in a Goat section but to be totally correct here,,,,,the 2000 through 2002 all had the same PCV system on F-bodies. 01-02 never got an LS6 PCV valley pan,,,they just got the intake manifold.

    Both my 2000 SS and the 2002 SS has the exact same PCV setup. It's the 98-99 models that were slightly different.

  6. #166
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Absolutely.
    Thanks.

  7. #167
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Shepherd, Michigan
    Age
    29
    Posts
    11,775

    blacker than wesleysnipes
    98' trans am

    oh shit..i am sorry....i didnt realize this was in the goat forum! i am outty my bad guys..i have no idea what the gto's set up are

  8. #168
    Member RageAgainstTheMinivan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Burnsville, MN
    Age
    34
    Posts
    216
    99 Hugger Z28, 03 R6

    Ive been following this pcv oil issue for some time now. Im just now deciding to get off my ass and do something about it on my car. Shady, I dont think you have your clean side dirty side thing right.

    Never mind y, t fitting, tb's, gto, fbody whatever. An idling or cruising engine has minimal blowby and high intake vacuum. This is when the vacuum draws air through the pcv and engine...never mind where the pcv hose is connected to on the engine (valve cover or valley). If there was no breather filter or the hose is capped from the TB (line before the butterfly...not vacuum side), the intake vacuum would put a vacuum on the crankcase.

    This is why there is 2 lines on the TB, before and after the butterfly (or a hose on the bellows or turbo inlet). The hose before the butterfly is filtered but not metered. I dont understand why you think the engine needs to be tuned if it has a breather instead. This "clean" air is just a source, it can go into the engine through the oil pan like a bong if you wanted it to. It doesnt matter that it goes into the same valve cover that also has a pcv y hose on it, where do you think the drivers side head gets its "clean" air?

    Under WOT, there isnt hardly any vacuum on the pcv hose but there definately is normal blowby. The pcv still has normal flow in the same direction, it doesnt care if vacuum is on the intake side or pressure on the crankcase side. If its excessive (n20, s/c, worn rings) the source air flow is reversed and its just all "dirty". This is when you would want a second catch can on the supply hose on a turbo engine. And of course after WOT, high rpm and high vac sucks all the vapor as hard as it can into the engine and thus the oil problem to have a can.

    I was confused as hell for a while until I realized how all modern day street cars work, not just the ls1. Maybe I still have it wrong, oh well my bad then. Hope this helps!

  9. #169
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Quote Originally Posted by RageAgainstTheMinivan View Post
    I dont understand why you think the engine needs to be tuned if it has a breather instead.
    Ya I've never found any additional tuning necessary either with breathers. I've actually had my 02 with and without breathers and now a catch can,,,and I've never seen the AFR on the wideband change at all with any setup running the same tune.

  10. #170
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Texas Department of Corrections
    Posts
    18,129
    Retired Outlaw Sum Bitch

    ECM will learn it.

  11. #171
    Member pmolina0436's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    528

    Black
    2004 GTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    ECM will learn it.
    i had a small leak on my gto on te valley pan...so i changed it but the valley pan they put doesnt have that vaccum stick on it...should i get the valley pan that does??

  12. #172
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Shepherd, Michigan
    Age
    29
    Posts
    11,775

    blacker than wesleysnipes
    98' trans am

    Quote Originally Posted by RageAgainstTheMinivan View Post
    Ive been following this pcv oil issue for some time now. Im just now deciding to get off my ass and do something about it on my car. Shady, I dont think you have your clean side dirty side thing right.

    Never mind y, t fitting, tb's, gto, fbody whatever. An idling or cruising engine has minimal blowby and high intake vacuum. This is when the vacuum draws air through the pcv and engine...never mind where the pcv hose is connected to on the engine (valve cover or valley). If there was no breather filter or the hose is capped from the TB (line before the butterfly...not vacuum side), the intake vacuum would put a vacuum on the crankcase.

    This is why there is 2 lines on the TB, before and after the butterfly (or a hose on the bellows or turbo inlet). The hose before the butterfly is filtered but not metered. I dont understand why you think the engine needs to be tuned if it has a breather instead. This "clean" air is just a source, it can go into the engine through the oil pan like a bong if you wanted it to. It doesnt matter that it goes into the same valve cover that also has a pcv y hose on it, where do you think the drivers side head gets its "clean" air?

    Under WOT, there isnt hardly any vacuum on the pcv hose but there definately is normal blowby. The pcv still has normal flow in the same direction, it doesnt care if vacuum is on the intake side or pressure on the crankcase side. If its excessive (n20, s/c, worn rings) the source air flow is reversed and its just all "dirty". This is when you would want a second catch can on the supply hose on a turbo engine. And of course after WOT, high rpm and high vac sucks all the vapor as hard as it can into the engine and thus the oil problem to have a can.

    I was confused as hell for a while until I realized how all modern day street cars work, not just the ls1. Maybe I still have it wrong, oh well my bad then. Hope this helps!
    i do have the clean side and dirty side correct. clean side gets its name since clean air..from the tb gets introduced...the driver side does not have any fitting to get the clean air..that is why.

  13. #173
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Shepherd, Michigan
    Age
    29
    Posts
    11,775

    blacker than wesleysnipes
    98' trans am

    Quote Originally Posted by RageAgainstTheMinivan View Post
    The hose before the butterfly is filtered but not metered.
    call me crazy..but i am pretty sure that "un-metered" air is the same air that passed through the maf..thus recording and metered...it has been my understanding that ..all the air going into the engine through the maf is metered...the car is tuned and expects a certain amount/percentage of the total amount of air going through the maf to go into the valve cover through the tb..and how much is returning into the intake from the pcv..since the pcv is a closed system..these measurements are pretty constant which makes it easily added into the stock tune..so then you open it up with a meter..introducing air that the pcm is not aware of..scewing the actual amount of air that is in the "pcv" system...i never said that a breather would throw afr all over the place..what i said is that the extra air being introduced into the system that is not tuned for will act like any other unexpected/abnormal air being introduced into the engine..car adds fuel to try to keep the afr in its range...so then ..if there is another issue..with lets say a vacuum leak..they engine has less fuel to add to try to control the afr. never said a tune was needed..just that it would be wise

  14. #174
    Member RageAgainstTheMinivan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Burnsville, MN
    Age
    34
    Posts
    216
    99 Hugger Z28, 03 R6

    Im pickin up what youre layin down. To split hairs, the tb breather inlet air is unmetered but is measured by the maf...beating a dead horse. My question is at what point does the crankcase pressure exceed what the pcv can scavenge? The breather inlet line on my tb was dirty from oil mist. So, Im guessing at high power the inlet becomes an outlet at that moment. Then an external valve cover filter will help vent this pressure and help keep the oil mist out of the intake. Im thinkin the only time when the pcm cares about the open system/vacuum leak is at idle or low power, and its probably minimal enough where the pcm just compensates for it.

    Just tonight I finished fabing up a catch can set up on my car with stock routing (closed system). Im also going to get a valve cover breather filter. In about a month Im hopefully going to get the car tuned. Im curious to see what difference the open vs closed system (with and without nitrous) is going to show on the laptop. For now Im leaving it closed and just going to find out how much junk the filter collects.

  15. #175
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Texas Department of Corrections
    Posts
    18,129
    Retired Outlaw Sum Bitch

    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    call me crazy..but i am pretty sure that "un-metered" air is the same air that passed through the maf..thus recording and metered...it has been my understanding that ..all the air going into the engine through the maf is metered...the car is tuned and expects a certain amount/percentage of the total amount of air going through the maf to go into the valve cover through the tb..and how much is returning into the intake from the pcv..since the pcv is a closed system..these measurements are pretty constant which makes it easily added into the stock tune..so then you open it up with a meter..introducing air that the pcm is not aware of..scewing the actual amount of air that is in the "pcv" system...i never said that a breather would throw afr all over the place..what i said is that the extra air being introduced into the system that is not tuned for will act like any other unexpected/abnormal air being introduced into the engine..car adds fuel to try to keep the afr in its range...so then ..if there is another issue..with lets say a vacuum leak..they engine has less fuel to add to try to control the afr. never said a tune was needed..just that it would be wise
    Lets play the game
    So if all above is accurate ( and Shady is a good mechanic) then explain to me how a guy (me) running a SD tune (no maf) eliminated PCV w/breathers runs perfect A/F. The above theory is forgetting to account for the exhaust O2 sensors and the adjustment taking place there to eliminate over compensating for the new found air flow. Of course I also deleted the rear O2 sensors also But on a car with a modified PCV w/Breathers the rear O2's do come into play.

  16. #176
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Shepherd, Michigan
    Age
    29
    Posts
    11,775

    blacker than wesleysnipes
    98' trans am

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Lets play the game
    So if all above is accurate ( and Shady is a good mechanic) then explain to me how a guy (me) running a SD tune (no maf) eliminated PCV w/breathers runs perfect A/F. The above theory is forgetting to account for the exhaust O2 sensors and the adjustment taking place there to eliminate over compensating for the new found air flow. Of course I also deleted the rear O2 sensors also But on a car with a modified PCV w/Breathers the rear O2's do come into play.
    you run SD ..and your tune is far from stock. no im not forgetting the rear O2s..the Front O2s will detect the increase oxygen and the fueling will adjust. the rears if I (shady the good mechanic ) are mostly for catalytic efficiency testing..the front play a much more active role in the fueling of the engine.

    i am no SD expert by ANY! means..so you will have to correct me if i am wrong sarge...but doesnt SD go by iat/throttle/rpm and map sensor readings ? and bases its fueling from those inputs ?

  17. #177
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Shepherd, Michigan
    Age
    29
    Posts
    11,775

    blacker than wesleysnipes
    98' trans am

    Quote Originally Posted by RageAgainstTheMinivan View Post
    Im pickin up what youre layin down. To split hairs, the tb breather inlet air is unmetered but is measured by the maf...beating a dead horse. My question is at what point does the crankcase pressure exceed what the pcv can scavenge? The breather inlet line on my tb was dirty from oil mist. So, Im guessing at high power the inlet becomes an outlet at that moment. Then an external valve cover filter will help vent this pressure and help keep the oil mist out of the intake. Im thinkin the only time when the pcm cares about the open system/vacuum leak is at idle or low power, and its probably minimal enough where the pcm just compensates for it.

    Just tonight I finished fabing up a catch can set up on my car with stock routing (closed system). Im also going to get a valve cover breather filter. In about a month Im hopefully going to get the car tuned. Im curious to see what difference the open vs closed system (with and without nitrous) is going to show on the laptop. For now Im leaving it closed and just going to find out how much junk the filter collects.

    with high power output a filter etc will obviously vent better then a pcv...but like what your doing now..a catch can will help clean up the "dirty" air getting sucked into your intake..so with a properly functioning catch can and pcv system..your getting clean air in..to dirty air..threw the catch can (makes it clean)-into your intake

    and to answer your statement about pcm caring about vacuum leaks only at idle or low power is what i thought..until frost, my tuner, told me that the pcm when detecting a leak (lean on both banks for me) will dump up to 20% more fuel at Wot...and when he explained this to me...i realised how simple of a ideal it is and couldnt believe how i didnt realize it....when driving the pcm is reading lean on both banks..so it is dumping extra fuel..you hit Wot..and the pcm will dump extra fuel to try to prevent going high rpms in a lean condition..even though vacuum is barely noticable at wot..the pcm still has the record of lean..so the pcm will adjust fuel fuel accordingly

  18. #178
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Shepherd, Michigan
    Age
    29
    Posts
    11,775

    blacker than wesleysnipes
    98' trans am

    Quote Originally Posted by RageAgainstTheMinivan View Post

    Just tonight I finished fabing up a catch can set up on my car with stock routing (closed system). Im also going to get a valve cover breather filter. In about a month Im hopefully going to get the car tuned. Im curious to see what difference the open vs closed system (with and without nitrous) is going to show on the laptop. For now Im leaving it closed and just going to find out how much junk the filter collects.
    here man..since your making your own catch can. thought it might help


    despite how anyone feels about foreign products..saikoumichi co is one of..if not the best catch can manufacturers around. i am getting ready to order mine from them..i am just debating dual or single..dual for the most part will be overkill...might not be for you..since your talking about oil getting into your clean side the dual is mostly used by autoX and road course drivers..since they are constantly at high rpms for extended amounts of time.

  19. #179
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Texas Department of Corrections
    Posts
    18,129
    Retired Outlaw Sum Bitch

    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    you run SD ..and your tune is far from stock. no im not forgetting the rear O2s..the Front O2s will detect the increase oxygen and the fueling will adjust. the rears if I (shady the good mechanic ) are mostly for catalytic efficiency testing..the front play a much more active role in the fueling of the engine.

    i am no SD expert by ANY! means..so you will have to correct me if i am wrong sarge...but doesnt SD go by iat/throttle/rpm and map sensor readings ? and bases its fueling from those inputs ?
    It is magic. Only utilized by the Gods. I can sprinkle some two bar SD tune on your ass.

  20. #180
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Shepherd, Michigan
    Age
    29
    Posts
    11,775

    blacker than wesleysnipes
    98' trans am

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    It is magic. Only utilized by the Gods. I can sprinkle some two bar SD tune on your ass.
    that is hilarious..its kind of true in a sense..big players use SD..or those in the know ..we say the same thing about networking/routers/switches at work...when someone asks how the network works..we say its magic and we pay big money to the wizards of the internetz to give us the magic.

Page 9 of 19 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 ... LastLast

LinkBacks (?)

  1. 02-13-2017, 02:04 PM
  2. 10-07-2016, 03:32 PM
  3. 04-26-2016, 05:35 AM
  4. 03-02-2015, 10:11 PM
  5. 06-14-2014, 07:04 PM
  6. 03-24-2014, 10:00 PM
  7. 01-09-2014, 08:18 PM
  8. 11-21-2013, 09:35 AM
  9. 08-13-2013, 05:55 PM
  10. 08-13-2013, 12:37 PM
  11. 10-22-2012, 12:55 AM
  12. 03-22-2012, 11:47 AM
  13. 11-10-2011, 06:49 PM
  14. 10-17-2011, 02:29 PM
  15. 10-17-2011, 10:33 AM
  16. 10-03-2011, 06:14 AM
  17. 09-05-2011, 01:58 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. PCV Catch Can
    By Orcus79 in forum Internal Engine
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-24-2013, 02:17 PM
  2. C6 Corvette Catch Can - Catch Me If You Can
    By Ed Blown Vert in forum Corvette
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-29-2009, 03:00 AM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-01-2006, 04:59 PM
  4. Looking for gauges! nitrous pressure, fuel pressure!
    By texasss in forum Parts Wanted / Trade
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-29-2005, 10:05 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •