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ls1 vs. ls2

This is a discussion on ls1 vs. ls2 within the GTO forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; I am trading in my 04 mustang GT for a GTO. Heres my prob. I owe more than my GT ...

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    ls1 vs. ls2

    I am trading in my 04 mustang GT for a GTO. Heres my prob. I owe more than my GT is worth so it hurts me on how much car i can afford. I of corse want an ls2 but it is so hard to find an M6 in the 23k-24k range. ls1 cars are easy to find in this range. i know the ls1 is easly to mod and i guess they run good times stock. I have only ran one in my GT (it has some bolt ons) and we were neck and neck the whole way, however i had the same outcome vs. a ls2 gto but i dont think he could drive for shit. Point is speed is very important to me so should i just keep waiting for the perfect ls2 car to come up or is the ls1 a good bargin. help me out guys


    ford deserter

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    Member Tide's Avatar
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    Hrm.

    The LS1 is a good bargain, in and of itself. But by the time you spend the money getting the LS1 ('04) to LS2 ('05) power levels, you may as well have just gone ahead and bought the LS2.

    Having said that, this probably isn't what you want to hear, but I'm going to say it anyway: If you're upside down on your GT, the last thing you should do is trade up and get even MORE lopsided on your next car. You have 3 options:
    1) Put it up for sale, and don't accept anything less than your payoff. Might take you a while, and you might have to get lucky with an impulse buyer, but you never know - it could happen. The problem is, very few people have access to instant cash it would require to purchase it outright, so they'd have to get a loan to get the car. Making that problem worse is that the loan value on your '04 GT is so much lower than what you owe, the downpayment they'd have to make to the bank/lending institution would be a VERY nice down payment on a NEW GT.
    2) Find someone to take over payments.
    3) Start paying extra principle on your GT, get it down to "acceptable" levels (pay it off if you can), then think about trading it in. Cut back on spending, move back in with your parents, whatever it takes to get that GT paid down as fast as possible.

    You're running the risk of screwing your credit for the next 7-8 years, and it will stop you from putting the money to the most important things.

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    The LS2 is much better. Just wait until you find one. In the mean time go and just test drive both and see what you think. I'm sure you will agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade M View Post
    Hrm.

    The LS1 is a good bargain, in and of itself. But by the time you spend the money getting the LS1 ('04) to LS2 ('05) power levels, you may as well have just gone ahead and bought the LS2.

    Having said that, this probably isn't what you want to hear, but I'm going to say it anyway: If you're upside down on your GT, the last thing you should do is trade up and get even MORE lopsided on your next car. You have 3 options:
    1) Put it up for sale, and don't accept anything less than your payoff. Might take you a while, and you might have to get lucky with an impulse buyer, but you never know - it could happen. The problem is, very few people have access to instant cash it would require to purchase it outright, so they'd have to get a loan to get the car. Making that problem worse is that the loan value on your '04 GT is so much lower than what you owe, the downpayment they'd have to make to the bank/lending institution would be a VERY nice down payment on a NEW GT.
    2) Find someone to take over payments.
    3) Start paying extra principle on your GT, get it down to "acceptable" levels (pay it off if you can), then think about trading it in. Cut back on spending, move back in with your parents, whatever it takes to get that GT paid down as fast as possible.

    You're running the risk of screwing your credit for the next 7-8 years, and it will stop you from putting the money to the most important things.
    yeah i know what your saying, i am only upsidedown around 2k. i make enough to afford whatever car i want, i just have alot of other places my money gets spent. i live in south florida so my little condo cost me $350k. i guess i should keep looking for the ls2 car but the damn dealer i bought my GT from has a yellow GTO M6 in great condition for like 22k. it has like 12k miles.

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    Member Tide's Avatar
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    2k isnt TOO bad, then. you could get out of that with a decent downpayment.

    If you can, try and sell the GT outright, and pay off the difference out of pocket

    edit: the 04 for 22k isnt too bad, really. You could talk them down another couple thousand or three if you stick to your guns, especially if you have better than average credit. sales managers are more likely to deal if they *KNOW* they don't have to worry about crap credit. plus you can use the headliner automaker (for instance, Nissan Motor Acceptance if its a Nissan dealership) to finance the car, and the dealer will get money from the back end of the loan - so good credit = lower sale price because the dealer will get a kickback from the automakers finance dept.

    Know your numbers first.

    Get the sale price of the GTO down to what you are willing to pay FIRST - as if, if you were going to buy it outright. Don't commit to trade in of your GT (even if that is what you're going to do). The price of the GTO is going to be what the price of GTO IS. No way around that. Offer tradein+500 for the sale price of the GTO. Worst thing they can do is say no. If they do, just walk out. Politely, but walk out. Say "No thanks, that's more than I am willing to pay. Have a good day, and call me if something that I am looking for comes up". If you have great credit, let them go ahead and run it.

    Think about it for a day or two, even three. Let the salesman/salesmanager sweat it a bit.

    Clean the shit out of your GT, pull your bolt ons OFF of it. Don't even drive it to the dealer when you go take a look at the GTO.

    Go back to the dealership and see what they will offer you on your GT. I'd bet my left testicle they'll offer tradein plus/minus 10 percent. Don't forget, tradein plus/minus 10 percent is what they paid for the GTO. It's all a game, in my opinion, and a pretty fun one at that
    Last edited by Tide; 10-24-2006 at 08:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade M View Post
    2k isnt TOO bad, then. you could get out of that with a decent downpayment.

    If you can, try and sell the GT outright, and pay off the difference out of pocket

    edit: the 04 for 22k isnt too bad, really. You could talk them down another couple thousand or three if you stick to your guns, especially if you have better than average credit. sales managers are more likely to deal if they *KNOW* they don't have to worry about crap credit. plus you can use the headliner automaker (for instance, Nissan Motor Acceptance if its a Nissan dealership) to finance the car, and the dealer will get money from the back end of the loan - so good credit = lower sale price because the dealer will get a kickback from the automakers finance dept.

    Know your numbers first.

    Get the sale price of the GTO down to what you are willing to pay FIRST - as if, if you were going to buy it outright. Don't commit to trade in of your GT (even if that is what you're going to do). The price of the GTO is going to be what the price of GTO IS. No way around that. Offer tradein+500 for the sale price of the GTO. Worst thing they can do is say no. If they do, just walk out. Politely, but walk out. Say "No thanks, that's more than I am willing to pay. Have a good day, and call me if something that I am looking for comes up". If you have great credit, let them go ahead and run it.

    Think about it for a day or two, even three. Let the salesman/salesmanager sweat it a bit.

    Clean the shit out of your GT, pull your bolt ons OFF of it. Don't even drive it to the dealer when you go take a look at the GTO.

    Go back to the dealership and see what they will offer you on your GT. I'd bet my left testicle they'll offer tradein plus/minus 10 percent. Don't forget, tradein plus/minus 10 percent is what they paid for the GTO. It's all a game, in my opinion, and a pretty fun one at that
    I should send you in to do my dirty work! i already have a blank check from capital one so i hope that is good a tool. if they will sell me the GTO for 24k out the door i am in for the ls1. if not ill hold out for a ls2 car.

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    Isnt the APR on that Capitol One thing in the neighborhood of 24 percent??!? STAY AWAY FROM THE LIGHT!!!!!

    Just for reference, I got my 04 GTO with 24K miles (1 month ago) for 21,500. You can do better than 24k out the door.

    Average trade in on the 04 is 18kish. Average retail is 22kish. I'd offer 18500 and see how hard they bite.

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    I'll not comment on the financial debacle of your situation.....
    LS1 vs. LS2
    Not much if any major differences. Nothing like the difference between the LT1 vs.LS1....now there were some major changes made in that motor evolution.....LS1 can be modded with simple bolt ons and a good tune to more than run down a LS2....not that big of a deal....More importantly either motor cost about the same to mod to 500 RWHP.....so the 50 FWHP delta is not much of a factor when going all out for the 500 RWHP mark.
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    I've owned both LS1 (99 SS) LS1 Gen III (02 Z28) and the GTO. No comparison stock. I like the LS2 much better and worth the extra. Not to mention the other amenities you get with the GTO. It's a very well equipted and optioned car. You can upgrade the LS1 to LS2 performance, but there goes your cost savings.

    Don't worry on the $2k upside down. It's not that much. With incentives GM is offering and a good deal, you got that covered. Or, as suggested, sell your GT yourself. I sold my 02 Z28 and got $2k more than the dealer offered me. Well worth my time and effort.

    One more idea... take your car to CarMax and get an offer from them. The dealer may be low balling you on your trade.

    If you buy the new GTO, go with a 5 year note max. That will keep you from being upside down. (But trading in after only 2 years with get you upside down either way). I did the 3 year (ouch!) 0% interest, saved me $4 grand in interest over the 5 year, 4.9% loan.

    I was at the Pontiac dealer last week for some minor service. They had a boat load of GTOs. They're done making them for a year or two at least. It's year end clearance time. Check out the factory incentives, shop a couple dealerships and you'll get a good deal.

    Let us know what you do.
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    Member Tide's Avatar
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    That was going to be my next suggestion. You can find some out of this world deals on new GTO's with rebates and such. I remember last year (still kicking myself somewhat about this one), the local dealership had 7500 in rebates on a new GTOs, knocking the price down to about 25K. But, I'm one of those guys that will *never* buy a new car due to the fact that the minute you sign the dotted line you lose 10 percent, if not more. I'll always let someone else take that hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade M View Post
    That was going to be my next suggestion. You can find some out of this world deals on new GTO's with rebates and such. I remember last year (still kicking myself somewhat about this one), the local dealership had 7500 in rebates on a new GTOs, knocking the price down to about 25K. But, I'm one of those guys that will *never* buy a new car due to the fact that the minute you sign the dotted line you lose 10 percent, if not more. I'll always let someone else take that hit.
    You need to be kicked for that one! 7500 is enough to cover that first year depreciation. I looked at an 06 GTO on Friday and they would only go down 2k. 1k for a GM rebate and another 1k for a competitive rebate. They only wanted to give me 14,5 for my TA. I told them they could do better by atleast 4k and walked out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Black Trans-Am View Post
    You need to be kicked for that one! 7500 is enough to cover that first year depreciation. I looked at an 06 GTO on Friday and they would only go down 2k. 1k for a GM rebate and another 1k for a competitive rebate. They only wanted to give me 14,5 for my TA. I told them they could do better by atleast 4k and walked out.
    Wow and still no call backs. How much were they asking out the door?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 40thgtfl View Post
    I am trading in my 04 mustang GT for a GTO. Heres my prob. I owe more than my GT is worth so it hurts me on how much car i can afford. I of corse want an ls2 but it is so hard to find an M6 in the 23k-24k range. ls1 cars are easy to find in this range. i know the ls1 is easly to mod and i guess they run good times stock. I have only ran one in my GT (it has some bolt ons) and we were neck and neck the whole way, however i had the same outcome vs. a ls2 gto but i dont think he could drive for shit. Point is speed is very important to me so should i just keep waiting for the perfect ls2 car to come up or is the ls1 a good bargin. help me out guys


    ford deserter
    I find it hard to believe ur 4.6 kept up with any lsx vehicle. My friend has an 04 gt with exhaust, gears, intake, etc and still has less than 280 hp. no match for 325 hp f body
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKIRA View Post
    Wow and still no call backs. How much were they asking out the door?
    I'm a bit upside down yet so I would have been about 34k.

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    Member Tide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Black Trans-Am View Post
    You need to be kicked for that one! 7500 is enough to cover that first year depreciation.
    Yeah, I know me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Black Trans-Am View Post
    You need to be kicked for that one! 7500 is enough to cover that first year depreciation. I looked at an 06 GTO on Friday and they would only go down 2k. 1k for a GM rebate and another 1k for a competitive rebate. They only wanted to give me 14,5 for my TA. I told them they could do better by atleast 4k and walked out.
    That is crazy. I got my '05 in '05 for $28,850. They were totally willing to deal. They were asking $34,995 and I told them I would not pay over $29K. They took it.

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    Got a 06 6 spd 17" Blk/Blk. Bought in Abilene today to be delivered to me 11/6. I cannot wait!! 25,500.00 buy price before TT&L. I think there are two left if anyone else is interested. Had seven two days ago, of the two left internet sales said one is orange and other is silver/gray. Jacob Jeter, very easy to deal with. 866-695-8885. I also have his cell number if someone is more than passively interested. Now to start the mods... Great forum by the way...

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Yup we have three brand new 06's here at Ancira Pointiac in Boerne...all for under $26K...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Yup we have three brand new 06's here at Ancira Pointiac in Boerne...all for under $26K...
    seems you have good deals on GTO out in Texas ... I am going to look at some today so Ill catch you up this evening

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    There is always one or two 05&06's in the Autotrader out here in Phx. for cheap.....
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