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Ideas needed to remave a broken bolt?

This is a discussion on Ideas needed to remave a broken bolt? within the GTO forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; So I got around to replacing the knock sensors on my GTO. Kicked out a code after installing the headers. ...

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    Awaiting Activation 5.7literMustangEater's Avatar
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    Ideas needed to remave a broken bolt?

    So I got around to replacing the knock sensors on my GTO. Kicked out a code after installing the headers. All went well except for the fact that I broke the head off of the bolt that holds the fuel rails. I tried, to no avail, to drill into the bolt in order to use the broken bolt extractor tool, but broke 3 bits in the process and was unable to drill enough out to get the tool in so I could back the bolt out. Any ideas on how to get that sucker out? I'm thinking I may just have to drill a new hole rethread it and get a new botl, but I'm hoping I can get the sucker out and just buy a bolt with the same lenght and thread pattern. Any advice is much appreciated. Thanx.

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    Member Texas Jack's Avatar
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    Cyclone Grey
    2006 GTO M6

    Get what's called a cobalt bit, they are good at drilling almost anything, hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Jack View Post
    Get what's called a cobalt bit, they are good at drilling almost anything, hope this helps.
    Texas....do you know where I can find a cobalt bit? I haven't seen anything like that at the parts stores. Do I need to check out Home Depot or Lowe's?

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    Member 6.0LiterImportEater's Avatar
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    Phantom Black Metallic
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    Cobalt Steel you won't find in stores bro. It only works on high heat applications for harder to machine materials. It does not hold any weight in being a "harder" material and less prone to breaking.

    You want H.S.S. (High Speed Steel) or Tool Steel drill bits, preferably a three flute kind. You can get H.S.S. at most hardware stores but everything else is a speciality since if you have no machining experience (almost all of society haha) you will not know.

    Check out McMaster Carr (or Grainger but I prefer McMaster). I have the huge catalogues in storage but the website is pretty easy to use and they will ship anywhere next day.

    www.mcmaster.com

    The link below will give you a better understanding on what drill bits exist and the different materials available with description.

    http://www.mcmaster.com/#metalworkin...d-rods/=1fxlee

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    Member Texas Jack's Avatar
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    Look them up on the internet, northern tool has them or look in your phone book under tools or drills they will do the job and are better than HSS. I don't mean to step on your toes 6.0 but if you do the research you will find they are made for the hardest medals and you must use cutting oil and they will work. I worked next to a machine shop that made helecopter rotors and that's what they used to drill those hard heat treated suckers. Regards to bought of you, Jack

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    Member Texas Jack's Avatar
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    Look up www.carbide connection.com/drills it will give some useful information that I hope will help, also it looks like Home Depot may have them but buy the best one you can get.

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    Member cant.b.caught.z28's Avatar
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    you wont find a 3 flute h.s.s. as far as i'm aware, hss is a 2 flute drill.. Three flutes are dreamers and TF style drills, and they are carbide.. you can use either drill, if you use the cobalt drill (i would recommend) spin the drill slowly and use a decent amount of pressure... if you can find a 3 flute, you can spin the hell out of it and use a little pressure, but be careful because the 3 flutes catch real easily and will break if it hits the tip of the flute right.

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    Member 6.0LiterImportEater's Avatar
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    Phantom Black Metallic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Jack View Post
    Look them up on the internet, northern tool has them or look in your phone book under tools or drills they will do the job and are better than HSS. I don't mean to step on your toes 6.0 but if you do the research you will find they are made for the hardest medals and you must use cutting oil and they will work. I worked next to a machine shop that made helecopter rotors and that's what they used to drill those hard heat treated suckers. Regards to bought of you, Jack
    There are two types of cobalt materials used for drill bits. There is the most common cobalt steel which is only desired for higher heat applications then there is a cobalt tool steel which is a superior metal for a drill. The first post was about the normal cobalt steel. The machine shop with the helicopter rotors was using the tool steel version coated in cobalt. Those are quite expensive also and are special order.

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    Member Texas Jack's Avatar
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    I didn't say they were were cheap, I said they would work and the one I suggested is not special order. Did you look up the site? The regular cobalt will do the trick and the site will tell you how to use them and what they will do and I am aware of the different types of drills, taps, and metals, I worked with all the above and more. Just trying to help. Pull up the site and learn.

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    Member 6.0LiterImportEater's Avatar
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    Phantom Black Metallic
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    The site of Northern Tool sells "cobalt coated" bits which are standard carbon steel base. The carbide site only sells H.S.S. so the cobalt tool steel is not available. McMaster only sells shanks of that material.

    Also check out McMaster cause it explains that Cobalt Coated Steel drill bits are for high temperature applications and is more abrasive reisitant. Nothing about being "harder". Thats some research. Remember a coating does didly except inherit some physical properties of the base material, hardness is not one of them. Harndess can be obtained from heat treatment (what they do for high speed steel) or a higher carbon content steel (tool steel).

    You may have some experience but I'm not trying to bust your bubble but I have worked in several machine shops. I actually know how to machine and can make just about anything with a mill and lathe. I'm also an mechanical engineer so know my materials when it comes to machining. My Manufacturing text book goes over the design of tool bits and all the encompasses machining.

    The best bet is for H.S.S. that is tin coated. It is available on the market and is all you need for this job. Strongest material for common use. Anything else your getting into machining rare metals (titanium alloys, tool steels, etc..).

    Second you rarely use cooling oil for drilling. Your bit is not getting that hot unless your feed rate is too high and so is your MRR (material removal rate). We are talking about a smal bolt here.
    Last edited by 6.0LiterImportEater; 04-14-2009 at 01:54 PM.

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    I cleaned the thread up..... agree to disagree and move along.

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    Member Texas Jack's Avatar
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    Sorry Orion!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Jack View Post
    Sorry Orion!
    that's alright...people are going to disagree on things from time to time. You've both voiced your points so let's just let it go at that and move on to other things.

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    did ya have any luck with getting that bolt out yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cant.b.caught.z28 View Post
    did ya have any luck with getting that bolt out yet?
    Haven't actually had a chance to get to it this week. The radio station I work for has been super busy so I've been pullin' 10-12 hour days all week. By the time I get home I need to cook dinner and then go to bed (I'm up at 2:45AM daily to be in at 4AM to start my day; I work on a morning show).

    I'm gonna try to give a go at it today and see if I have any success. I'll let you know.

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    If the bolt broke right at or above the surface and not down in the hole, you might try using a Dremel with a cutoff wheel. When I was installing some Scorpion roller rockers, I stupidly set my torque wrench to the wrong foot pounds and snapped the rocker bolt off even with the surface of the head. I tried drilling into that very hard bolt with no success. So then I tried an old trick I had used many years ago. I put two cutoff wheels on the Dremel (one was not thick enough) and cut a slot in the bolt deep enough to just fit a flathead screwdiver. I then simply un-screwed the bolt. To get the slot deep enough for the screwdriver, you may wind up cutting slightly into the metal around the hole, but that should not hurt anything. Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist View Post
    If the bolt broke right at or above the surface and not down in the hole, you might try using a Dremel with a cutoff wheel. When I was installing some Scorpion roller rockers, I stupidly set my torque wrench to the wrong foot pounds and snapped the rocker bolt off even with the surface of the head. I tried drilling into that very hard bolt with no success. So then I tried an old trick I had used many years ago. I put two cutoff wheels on the Dremel (one was not thick enough) and cut a slot in the bolt deep enough to just fit a flathead screwdiver. I then simply un-screwed the bolt. To get the slot deep enough for the screwdriver, you may wind up cutting slightly into the metal around the hole, but that should not hurt anything. Good luck.
    i've used that trick many times when i was in the auto interior business. we worked on a lot of old cars with weak bolts and that always worked.

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    Member cant.b.caught.z28's Avatar
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    ^ Thats the best way I think... I didn't even think about that. I've done it plenty of times, its alot better than drilling out the bolt and risking messing up the threads

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist View Post
    If the bolt broke right at or above the surface and not down in the hole, you might try using a Dremel with a cutoff wheel. When I was installing some Scorpion roller rockers, I stupidly set my torque wrench to the wrong foot pounds and snapped the rocker bolt off even with the surface of the head. I tried drilling into that very hard bolt with no success. So then I tried an old trick I had used many years ago. I put two cutoff wheels on the Dremel (one was not thick enough) and cut a slot in the bolt deep enough to just fit a flathead screwdiver. I then simply un-screwed the bolt. To get the slot deep enough for the screwdriver, you may wind up cutting slightly into the metal around the hole, but that should not hurt anything. Good luck.
    Unfortunately the bolt head broke off and the remainder of it is in the bolt hole, so the trick won't work, but I'll have to keep that in mind for the next time I break a bolt and part of it is still exposed. Thanks Chemist!!!

    Didn't get to it yesterday due to the fact that my mother in law went to the hospital with chest pains yesterday, so hopefully I'll get it out and replaced this weekend.

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    This may or may not work, but you if you have a narrow cold chisel that will just fit in the hole, you may be able to punch enough of a grove in the bolt so that you can un-screw it with a flathead screwdriver. If you try this, just be careful you don't damage the manifold in the process. Again, good luck.

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