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H or X and uh, catback desicion...

This is a discussion on H or X and uh, catback desicion... within the GTO forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; I've been thinking about getting a JBA but it has an H pipe, or a Corsa that has a X.........

  1. #1
    Junior Member TysGTO's Avatar
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    Brazen Orange
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    H or X and uh, catback desicion...

    I've been thinking about getting a JBA but it has an H pipe, or a Corsa that has a X......

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    Senior Member GOT1GOAT's Avatar
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    04 GTO QuickSilver
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    I believe (and could be wrong) that the x has no drone sound in the car so a little quieter. My magnaflow has an x section and no drone.
    With so many kinds and configurations, others will have to chime in to inform you.
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    I personally don't like the way X-pipes make the exhaust sound. When I still had my stock catback on, I had an H-pipe made. It made it quiet at idle, but deeper. It actually made it sound stock again. Always was louder with the long tubes and this quieted it back down.

    X is supposed to flow better but the difference is probably pretty close anyway. Find someone that has done an X-pipe and see what it sounds like.
    Rob
    04 GTO
    96 WS6

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    Senior Member Danger731's Avatar
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    x purges better, no ?

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    i have jba headers w/ there catted down pipe and magnaflow cat back which comes w/ an x pipe on my 06 goat. i believe nascar uses an x pipe, which if you notice, they have a high pitched sound. to me, my car sounds like a very tame nascar . if you want the traditional deep tone muscle car sound...dont get an x pipe.

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    Junior Member speeddemon100's Avatar
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    Yellowjacket
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    I have an h pipe i am installing sometime today.....already have magnaflow mufflers installed.....video clips later

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danger731 View Post
    x purges better, no ?
    Not really....depends on your cat back system and if you run LT headers or not....if you are running LT headers and a decent cat back then the answer is no....

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    Junior Member TysGTO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Not really....depends on your cat back system and if you run LT headers or not....if you are running LT headers and a decent cat back then the answer is no....
    So, if I don't run LT's the purge is not better, but, is it that much of a difference? Also, I heard that running short headers is junk? Is that true?
    Here are sound clips for the JBA exhaust

    http://www.jbaheaders.com/Sound%20Fi...o_idlerev1.mp3
    http://www.jbaheaders.com/Sound%20Fi...gto_accel1.mp3

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    LT's allow more scanvenging from the exhaust ports....thus delivering more RWHP. Shorties do a much less efficient job of vacating exhaust gasses and pressure off your exhaust valve.....much like your stock exhaust manifold than Long Tubes....this causes pressure on the exhaust side which allows your engine to work harder to force the spent gases out of your combustion chamber....LT's allow a smoother flow at higher pressure then stock or shorties.....shorties are cosmetic IMHO and do not really do anything outside of change the pitch of the exhaust sound....We "super heat" the innards of our Long Tubes to get even more scavenging effects.....I use wrap....


    So many focus on the intake side and just view the exhaust as a "sound" issue...I applaud your way of researching the best for performance....good job....
    You want to eliminate as many bends as possible......get the spent gasses out of your combustion chamber and into the atmosphere quickly as possible
    You also help your engine run cooler doing this.....

    Last edited by Sarge; 10-08-2006 at 06:14 AM.
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    i know Sarge is a guru when it comes to our cars but, here is the experience of a guru on another forum. He is talking about ls2 gto's not ls1.:

    Ah, the great monthly shorty .vs LT's debate. I hate it when new people come on here and ask a legitimate question and it turns into a pi$$ing match especially when some people in the pi$$ing match don't give you any information in their sig's about their cars. LOL! New people with legitimate questions should be welcomed and not forced to endure a pi$$ing match.

    First, I will stand behind what 10 sec Bird posted. It doesn't matter to me whether some people put up the little BS flag or not.

    People this is all about your goals for your car. Desired power, sound, money, etc. Think all of this through and then make the appropriate choice. I have been working on street rods/performance cars for almost 30 years. I have had some sweet machines (600hp '71 GTO & 500hp '69 z28 for example)and worked on other peoples sweet machines as well.

    If you don't have hefty goals for your car (lots of boost, big cam, heads, etc.) and are leaning towards the JBA's with mid-pipes, you are not going to see enough of a difference between JBA's .vs LT's to worry about it. With this in mind, if you want or have to have (emissions) the JBA setup, you will be fine.

    There are so many ways you can go when you build your car that is impossible to draw the fine line on when you will have to switch to LT's. I went to LT's on my car (from JBA's) because my car is blown and putting out 7.5 to 8 psi of boost, so I put 1-7/8 LT's on the car because I have seen the difference in power between 1-7/8" LT's vs 1-3/4" vs JBA's.

    Frankly, when I had my JBA's and an N/A motor, there was maybe 5hp difference between my car and other car's with the same setup except they had 1-3/4" with high flow cats and I had stock mid-pipes with cats. This was checked on the same dyno on the same day. As 10 sec Bird said, if I had had JBA mid's with high flow cat's the difference would have been 'nil'. You could also match these numbers up against other numbers posted on this forum from guys running LT's and a CAI and the difference was so small, again, it wasn't worth worrying about.

    After putting the S/C on the car and still using the JBA's with stock cats my numbers again were 3-5hp to similar cars using 1-3/4 LT's with high flow cats.

    After helping a friend do an S/C on his car and with 1-7/8" LT's and high flow cats we headed for the dyno. I still had my JBA setup with stock cats then. The difference in the two cars on the dyno went to my friends car, he had 18hp and 11 ft/lb's of torque on me. Could I have made that up with the JBA mid-pipes with high flow cats on my car absolutely. However, that said, I think that setup would have left me know room to grow my setup. I believe I would have hit that fine line and since I do plan on further engine mods, I decided to switch to the dark side.

    Sorry for the long post. And, in closing, you guys play nice. Help each other out and keep the 'bs' to yourselves. We are all human beings here and these are just damn cars.
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    Last edited by retvet; 10-08-2006 at 09:13 AM.

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    Junior Member TysGTO's Avatar
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    So, will the JBA shorties make a big difference in sound vs the stock? I don't have a lot of money, just enough to live comfortably, I want a good flowing exhaust, but with a good sound. Would a JBA catback be a good choice? Also, I've read, that there is no drone, then I read that there is a little? Well, which is it? When Christmas is over and maybe, just maybe I get some over time from the phone company, I just may get hi-flow cats for the mids and the headers....but, that's next year.....

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retvet View Post
    i know Sarge is a guru when it comes to our cars but, here is the experience of a guru on another forum. He is talking about ls2 gto's not ls1.:

    Ah, the great monthly shorty .vs LT's debate. I hate it when new people come on here and ask a legitimate question and it turns into a pi$$ing match especially when some people in the pi$$ing match don't give you any information in their sig's about their cars. LOL! New people with legitimate questions should be welcomed and not forced to endure a pi$$ing match.

    First, I will stand behind what 10 sec Bird posted. It doesn't matter to me whether some people put up the little BS flag or not.

    People this is all about your goals for your car. Desired power, sound, money, etc. Think all of this through and then make the appropriate choice. I have been working on street rods/performance cars for almost 30 years. I have had some sweet machines (600hp '71 GTO & 500hp '69 z28 for example)and worked on other peoples sweet machines as well.

    If you don't have hefty goals for your car (lots of boost, big cam, heads, etc.) and are leaning towards the JBA's with mid-pipes, you are not going to see enough of a difference between JBA's .vs LT's to worry about it. With this in mind, if you want or have to have (emissions) the JBA setup, you will be fine.

    There are so many ways you can go when you build your car that is impossible to draw the fine line on when you will have to switch to LT's. I went to LT's on my car (from JBA's) because my car is blown and putting out 7.5 to 8 psi of boost, so I put 1-7/8 LT's on the car because I have seen the difference in power between 1-7/8" LT's vs 1-3/4" vs JBA's.

    Frankly, when I had my JBA's and an N/A motor, there was maybe 5hp difference between my car and other car's with the same setup except they had 1-3/4" with high flow cats and I had stock mid-pipes with cats. This was checked on the same dyno on the same day. As 10 sec Bird said, if I had had JBA mid's with high flow cat's the difference would have been 'nil'. You could also match these numbers up against other numbers posted on this forum from guys running LT's and a CAI and the difference was so small, again, it wasn't worth worrying about.

    After putting the S/C on the car and still using the JBA's with stock cats my numbers again were 3-5hp to similar cars using 1-3/4 LT's with high flow cats.

    After helping a friend do an S/C on his car and with 1-7/8" LT's and high flow cats we headed for the dyno. I still had my JBA setup with stock cats then. The difference in the two cars on the dyno went to my friends car, he had 18hp and 11 ft/lb's of torque on me. Could I have made that up with the JBA mid-pipes with high flow cats on my car absolutely. However, that said, I think that setup would have left me know room to grow my setup. I believe I would have hit that fine line and since I do plan on further engine mods, I decided to switch to the dark side.

    Sorry for the long post. And, in closing, you guys play nice. Help each other out and keep the 'bs' to yourselves. We are all human beings here and these are just damn cars.
    __________________
    I agree with him on a few things...blasting newbies is an asshole thing to do....good for him blasting back....
    30 years of working on hot rods....so we are talking a youngster here
    He is comparing JB's with mid pipes to LT's...not just Shorties versus LT's....he also goes on to say when he modified his car he had to go to LT's....I bet he did! And I hate dyno comparisons.....however he does post the LT's produced more RWHP.....however I would challenge him to compare ET's and trap speeds....where I have seen a big difference in the same car from shorties one week to LT's the next....nothing else changed....the engine revved quicker thus getting in the power band quicker....him and I are close to saying the same things.....he is just saying JB's with MidPipes are close to LT type power delivered....and I agree....

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TysGTO View Post
    So, will the JBA shorties make a big difference in sound vs the stock? I don't have a lot of money, just enough to live comfortably, I want a good flowing exhaust, but with a good sound. Would a JBA catback be a good choice? Also, I've read, that there is no drone, then I read that there is a little? Well, which is it? When Christmas is over and maybe, just maybe I get some over time from the phone company, I just may get hi-flow cats for the mids and the headers....but, that's next year.....
    Perception statements.....yes there is drone....no there is not drone....depends on who you ask....I think shorties or LT's make a car sound like a muscle car myself....deeper rumble....even with stock cat backs....What is the price difference between shorties and LT's? Cant be all that much....

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    I installed my jba headers with catted down pipe first. Definitely louder than stock while still maintaining deep stock tone. Picked up a little cracking sound at WOT. no drone. Then when i installed my magnaflow w/ x pipe is when the sound turned high pitched. again no drone at all. i'm an old guy and can't handle that stuff any more. lol. If you are on a budget get a muff shop to fab you up an h pipe to replace the resinator. I bet that would sound nice while freeing up the exhust even more. Remember, you dont want any choke points. I can not speak for the jba cat-back or the h pipe as far as drone.

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    I warned you .....
    Last edited by Sarge; 10-10-2006 at 05:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    I agree with him on a few things...blasting newbies is an asshole thing to do....good for him blasting back....
    30 years of working on hot rods....so we are talking a youngster here
    He is comparing JB's with mid pipes to LT's...not just Shorties versus LT's....he also goes on to say when he modified his car he had to go to LT's....I bet he did! And I hate dyno comparisons.....however he does post the LT's produced more RWHP.....however I would challenge him to compare ET's and trap speeds....where I have seen a big difference in the same car from shorties one week to LT's the next....nothing else changed....the engine revved quicker thus getting in the power band quicker....him and I are close to saying the same things.....he is just saying JB's with MidPipes are close to LT type power delivered....and I agree....
    He is comparing 1 5/8" JBA's with Stock cats to 1 7/8 Longtubes with Mid-Pipes.

    JBA's do pretty good for a shorty. Owe5goat made 21rwhp on his 05 M6 Goat just adding JBA shorties.

    Just my o2

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