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Can i run E85

This is a discussion on Can i run E85 within the GTO forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Ive been reading that people are running E85 in there gto with no problem is this true or are they ...

  1. #1
    Member ledesma54's Avatar
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    Can i run E85

    Ive been reading that people are running E85 in there gto with no problem is this true or are they just going to see side affects happen in the long run.
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Member Benner's Avatar
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    Not true. It can be done however with proper tuning, injectors, and money but it'll cost a little bit to get it to work properly.

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    Senior Member slims00ls1z28's Avatar
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    The fuel system has to be safe for E85. On top of extra fuel needed (tune at least) the e85 is more corroseive on parts designed to flow/hold gasoline. New seals etc are needed for long term use. You' probably get by with a couple tankfuls but over time it will eat up alot of fuel related equipment.

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Maybe E15 at the best without significant modifications to the entire fuel system and fuel delivery system.

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    Knight of Chaos Rhinoman's Avatar
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    Don't use that E85 crap anyway. My dodge ram is e85 ready and I'll tell u it doesn't burn as well so your vehicle loses gas mileage, & horsepower. You can feel it when your driving. It maybe cheaper but you'll find yourself at the pump twice as much as with reg gasoline.

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    Member Benner's Avatar
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    You do lose mileage with E85 compared to 93 but you get better torque in higher copression setups. And it's also cheaper to purchase so it's usually more cost effective. there's a write up on running E85, I'll try to find it.
    Last edited by Benner; 06-15-2008 at 01:26 PM.

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  8. #8
    rednari
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    The key to using E85 is the tune. You must tune the car for it to get max power. If you do, it will provide more power than gasoline alone and a higher octane count. But every good thing has a counterpoint. Once the car has an alcohol tune, then you must continue to burn it and many places in the country do not sell E85. The car runs poorly if you go back to E10.

    So, it becomes a permanent decision. Maybe in another 5 years or so, it will be available nationwide. Until then, I will use a gasoline tune.

  9. #9
    Member ledesma54's Avatar
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    Ya i just did the tune myself and the car runs better and pulls harder, it does burn faster but its alot cheaper then 93 octane. I would recommend it for everyone and it smells like corn syrup and not fuel when it comes out the exhaust.

  10. #10
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Did you replace all your fuel system components? I dont even know where to buy E85 in San Antonio......Stuff is corrosive as acid.

  11. #11
    Member ledesma54's Avatar
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    Kroger sells it and i know some people that have been running it the same day they bought there gto back in 05 and they haven't had any problems yet with stock fuel system. Its all in the tune really, i might buy bigger injectors and that's it.

  12. #12
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    The people you know are the exception. Our stock fuel system is NOT built for alcohol. It will eat the system.

  13. #13
    Member Benner's Avatar
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    I believe you might be thinking of methanol Sarge, Methanol is very corrosive but Ethanol has been present in our fuels for a probally a decade now. The our fuel systems are built now to withstand a minimum of 15% ethanol fuels since almost all fuels now have it so I'm pretty sure they'd beef it up to handle well more than its minimum.

  14. #14
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Nope....I'm talking E85 eating the shit out of systems that are not built for it. The possible problem areas on the GTO are: Filler neck, pump assembly (pump, bucket, filter, and lines in the tank), the flexible line that connects the motor to the feed line on the fire wall. All made of rubber and plastic that E85 will eventually eat.

  15. #15
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    I want to be clear here.....I think 104 octane fuel is the bee's knee's I am just saying this.....I dont want anybody to think you can just start filling up with E85 in a non-flex fuel car and just with a tune everything is fine because it is not. E85 is corrosive as hell...you know why they dont mix ethanol in at the plant? Cuz it ate all the freaking pipes man....all I am saying is you need to be sure your fuel system has the E85 components in it so you don't find yourself out in the giggle weeds with hoses/fuel bucket ate all to shit....

  16. #16
    Senior Member slims00ls1z28's Avatar
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    Which is exactly why if you look up part numbers on E85 vehicles compared to gas vehicles they are different even in the same vehicle. Like sarge said E85 conversion require alot of replacing for long term use.

    Lets see from Texas state Energy conservation office
    "
    A number of other parts on the FFV's fuel delivery system are modified to be ethanol-compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system and anti-siphon device have been modified slightly. Alcohol fuels can be more corrosive than gasoline. Therefore; fuel system parts have been upgraded to be ethanol-compatible. Ultimately it is a drivers choice, but we do need to be firm in recommending that only FFVs use E85 and to state that we are not responsible for damages."

    From the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition (pro ethanol pushers)

    "Yes. However, the only kit holds EPA certification is by FlexFuel U.S. You can find more information on this kit at www.flexfuelus.com. Technically speaking, converting a vehicle that was designed to operate on unleaded gasoline only to operate on another form of fuel that does not use the FlexFuel U.S. kit is a violation of the federal law and the offender may be subject to significant penalties. (Might want to pay attention to that part as well)

    "The differences in fuel injector size, air-fuel ratio, PCM calibrations, material composition of the fuel lines, pumps and tanks are just a few of the components that contribute to making an E85 conversion extremely complex"

    There is only one major additional part that is included on an FFV - the fuel sensor that detects the ethanol/gasoline ratio. A number of other parts on the FFV's fuel delivery system are modified so that they are ethanol compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system, anti-siphon device and dashboard gauges have been modified slightly. Alcohols are corrosive. Therefore, any part that comes in contact with the fuel has been upgraded to be tolerant to alcohol. Normally, these parts include a stainless steel fuel tank and Teflon-lined fuel hoses."

    "The conversion cost to make FFVs compatible with E85 typically includes upgrades to the fuel system components, the addition of a fuel sensor, and reprogramming the EPOM (computer chip) in the ECM/PCM (electronic control module/power train control module)."

    Iowa renewable fuels association

    "Flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs) have modifications to their design to enable them to operate on higher blends of ethanol. Changes include an oxygen fuel sensor that detects the level of oxygen (ethanol); the fuel tank, fuel lines, and fuel injectors are made of different materials; and a stainless steel fuel tank has been added along with Teflon-lined fuel hoses."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines

    Read towards the bottom where it says corrosion and water contamination.

    From the DOE (department of energy) Energy Efficiency and renewable Energy Commission.

    "Due to growing interest in E85, more and more consumers are asking coordinators whether they can convert conventional vehicles to run on E85. The answer: not legally." (actually according to some there is one kit on the market now that is legal)

    "Consumers should not fuel their conventional, gasoline-only vehicles with E85. To accommodate E85, the fuel system must be corrosion resistant. Because ethanol is more corrosive than gasoline, FFVs have stainless-steel fuel tanks, Teflon-lined fuel hoses, and other corrosion-resistant parts that standard vehicles do not have. Frequent use of E85 in a standard vehicle could damage fuel injectors, the fuel pump, or other components, and could cause other serious operating problems. It can also interfere with pollution control systems. FFVs also have fuel/air mixing appropriate to the oxygen content of the E85 (ethanol (C2H5OH) differs from gasoline (HxCx) in that it contains oxygen). Even though most modern vehicles have oxygen sensors and computerized fuel injection allowing for some adaptation to the oxygen content of the fuel, the computers and sensors also adjust operation of numerous air emission devices. They cannot be reprogrammed after installation and cannot fully adjust to the large oxygen content difference"

    Need more proof?

    In Larry the Cable Guy Voice

    "Look I can do this all day"

    2 words..... Corrosive and Illegal without EPA certified kit.
    Last edited by slims00ls1z28; 06-19-2008 at 07:45 PM.

  17. #17
    Member ledesma54's Avatar
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    People have been doing it since it came out but iam one off those that i have to find some good info on something if iam going to do it to my car. So ive been researching it for a good bit so here's a website that helped me make my decision. http://www.rune85.com

  18. #18
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    My God son....that is a cheap ( third grade computer class designed) web site just selling a E85 tune. They are not selling conversion kits.... they make no claims on anything but their tune!
    Just a tune and running E85 in a non flex fuel car is a disaster. You can be our test mule
    Please take lots of pics when your fuel system shits the bed.....
    Last edited by Sarge; 06-20-2008 at 05:08 AM.

  19. #19
    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    I was curious about running e85 awhile back and actually called GM. they said in noway is the GTO compatible with e85

  20. #20
    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    I am ready to pull the motor out and drop in the nucler reactor powered steam engine as soon as they get the containment unit small enough....
    Mitzubish has a community plant down to 8 foot by 20 foot that unmaintained will run a small town for 30 years

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