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who should win?

This is a discussion on who should win? within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; This race will depend on the tires and since youre an M6 you better know how to launch that thing ...

  1. #21
    Senior Member Lunatikgixxer's Avatar
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    This race will depend on the tires and since youre an M6 you better know how to launch that thing with out much spin. I raced a guy that had an lt1 ws6 with nitto DRs, the typical bolt ons, and it was an a4 with a stock stall and we raced from a dig to about 60mph. It was on a back road that was short and narrow. I got beat by about a fender and with bald ass 285 street tires. If you dont have a good set of tires you will lose. This is how i see it. Both on street tires that have good tread, you will lose. He has bald street tires and you have fairly good street tires, it will be very close. Both bald, you lose. If he has streets and you have some MT ET streets you should win, other way around you will definately lose. If you really wanna beat him borrow some MTs from somebody.
    SLP Lid, TSP 233/239 112lsa with supporting mods, Pacesetter Headers and ORY, Magnaflow muffler, MSD Spark plug wires, Sportlines, HAL QA1 Adjustable Rear Shocks, BMR Adjustable torque arm, BMR Lower control arms, Monster Level 4 Clutch, 6K HIDs Lows and Fogs. Does 384rwhp 358ft/lbs tq on stock ls1 intake and stock heads, tuned by Jeremy Formato.

  2. #22
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Wow, is it me or is that alot of scenario's to ponder

    I wouldn't worry about who has what tires, ya run what ya brung and hope you brought enough. A race is a race, win or lose.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Lunatikgixxer's Avatar
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    haha yeah i know but it could be the thin line between life or death! or win or lose in this case. On the street, street tires arent bad! I think if you ran the 1/8th at the track youd beat him, he'd spin too much.

  4. #24
    Junior Member whitetrashbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Wow, is it me or is that alot of scenario's to ponder

    I wouldn't worry about who has what tires, ya run what ya brung and hope you brought enough. A race is a race, win or lose.
    I'm really curious to see what set up is really in the car. Honestly I had an LT1 Z28 and it couldn't touch my LS1 but it was stock. Liked the way the car ran but for one word.......OPTISPARK. The car ran great when I wasn't working on it.

    Dan

  5. #25
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitetrashbird View Post
    I'm really curious to see what set up is really in the car. Honestly I had an LT1 Z28 and it couldn't touch my LS1 but it was stock. Liked the way the car ran but for one word.......OPTISPARK. The car ran great when I wasn't working on it.

    Dan
    I hear that alot. We liked our 97 Z. We never had to do anything but maintenance to it, right up through 110,000 miles before it was totalled 3 years ago. Never once had an issue with opti or anything on that car.
    But we bought it new, and took care of it. Loved the way that car ran. Had an 02 SS at the same time (still do) along with another LS1 00 SS that replaced the totaled LT1 3 years ago.
    Don't get me wrong, I like the LS1's and the way they run, I just never found any faults with the LT1 either. Even had an LT1 Jeep at that time, that was a blast.

  6. #26
    Senior Member MrMasterCraft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitetrashbird View Post
    thecar ran great when I wasn't working on it.

    Dan

    2000 Z - Light Pewter Metallic - A4 - 130k - Bolt Ons - My Pride and Joy
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  7. #27
    Senior Member FasstChevys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I hear that alot. We liked our 97 Z. We never had to do anything but maintenance to it, right up through 110,000 miles before it was totalled 3 years ago. Never once had an issue with opti or anything on that car.
    But we bought it new, and took care of it. Loved the way that car ran. Had an 02 SS at the same time (still do) along with another LS1 00 SS that replaced the totaled LT1 3 years ago.
    Don't get me wrong, I like the LS1's and the way they run, I just never found any faults with the LT1 either. Even had an LT1 Jeep at that time, that was a blast.
    Same thing here - I had a '94 Trans AM GT, and never had an issue with it.

  8. #28
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FasstChevys View Post
    Same thing here - I had a '94 Trans AM GT, and never had an issue with it.
    Ya, they dont get much love nowadays, but I remember when they first came out (before LS anything), and they were the hottest thing to have. Funny how they are so easily and quickly forgotten for the next best thing. Guess that's the world we live in now.

    I can't help but wonder in the last 10 years or so all the complaints about LT1's aren't based off of clapped out cars that have already been through 5 owners and run to death,,,,know what I mean??

  9. #29
    Senior Member FasstChevys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Ya, they dont get much love nowadays, but I remember when they first came out (before LS anything), and they were the hottest thing to have. Funny how they are so easily and quickly forgotten for the next best thing. Guess that's the world we live in now.

    I can't help but wonder in the last 10 years or so all the complaints about LT1's aren't based off of clapped out cars that have already been through 5 owners and run to death,,,,know what I mean??
    Absolutely - a lot of people forget the iron block LT1 has a lil' more torque down low with 30 year old technology cylinder heads - at the time, it was the thing to have, without a doubt.

  10. #30
    Hide ya kids Hide ya wife 94ss06gxp's Avatar
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    i say a drivers race

  11. #31
    megs 02sunsetorangeZ's Avatar
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    i hope, i just ordered 3.73's today and next month ill send my PCM to frost hopefully. then we will go out to the track in january or so

  12. #32
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FasstChevys View Post
    Absolutely - a lot of people forget the iron block LT1 has a lil' more torque down low with 30 year old technology cylinder heads - at the time, it was the thing to have, without a doubt.
    Actually the cylinder heads were an all new design for 92. Ever heard of the popular vortec heads that are making decent power right out of the box??

    Well those vortec heads that GM started using on Gen 1 engines in around 95-96 for the trucks are copied right from the LT1 head, with the fast burn chambers, port shapes and dimensions, with the only difference being the vortecs don't have the reverse flow cooling.

    Actually a great cylinder head that flows great numbers considering it's small 170cc intake runner. It's the reason why the LT1's ran as good as they did,,,,otherwise they are just a gen 1 motor from any other aspect.

  13. #33
    Senior Member MrMasterCraft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Ya, they dont get much love nowadays, but I remember when they first came out (before LS anything), and they were the hottest thing to have. Funny how they are so easily and quickly forgotten for the next best thing. Guess that's the world we live in now.
    Optispark... 'nuff said

  14. #34
    Senior Member FasstChevys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Actually the cylinder heads were an all new design for 92. Ever heard of the popular vortec heads that are making decent power right out of the box??

    Well those vortec heads that GM started using on Gen 1 engines in around 95-96 for the trucks are copied right from the LT1 head, with the fast burn chambers, port shapes and dimensions, with the only difference being the vortecs don't have the reverse flow cooling.

    Actually a great cylinder head that flows great numbers considering it's small 170cc intake runner. It's the reason why the LT1's ran as good as they did,,,,otherwise they are just a gen 1 motor from any other aspect.
    Bingo! My mistake!

    I have an old '72 Chevy pickup I'd like to put the "Fast Burn 385" heads on!

  15. #35
    Senior Member FasstChevys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMasterCraft View Post
    Optispark... 'nuff said
    Yea - the ignition makes the LT1 a bad engine.

  16. #36
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMasterCraft View Post
    Optispark... 'nuff said
    Aaaaa, optispark.. Here's my jist on that.

    It's only fault that I ever found was it's inability to live at high rpms all the time. It's real problem was the sealed bearing the shaft rides on. There is no engine lubrication for it. Eventually that bearing dries up from either heat, high rpm use, etc....That shaft starts to have a slight wobble to it, and that's where the majority of misfires come from.
    Now with that in mind, GM recommends the opti's be changed every 70,000 miles.
    Now I ask,,,,how many people actually do that?? It's time consuming and expensive to do. The water pump has to come off for starters, not to mention a complete opti from GM isn't cheap. Taking the water pump off after that many miles also poses the question,,,,do I change the water pump too as a preventive measure?? I always did.
    So most people let it ride, and ride, and ride, until one day it leaves them stranded on the road.
    Who's to blame??

    I'll admit, that sealed bearing was not the brightest of ideas, but given the location and design, I think GM would have been better off to stick with a conventional distributor (wouldn't work well in the F-body however) As a matter of fact, All LT1 blocks still have the provisions to switch back to a rear mount distributor, and many swaps incorporate this.

    I even rebuilt an LT1 and used it in a retro swap on a jeep I built for my wife. I kept the opti (albiet a new one) during the rebuild. I never had a lick of trouble with that vehicle either. I've even seen them used in mud bogging trucks and sand rail type vehicles where the entire engine gets covered in mud and water. (again another misconception of fear)
    Shouldn't be a problem (and never was for me) so long as the opti unit is sealed as it should be. The cap and housing incorporate gaskets to keep moisture out. Always worked fine for me.

    Nowadays there are several companies making conversion kits to coil-per-cylinder and other variations. So the opti can be completely eliminated if you like. So there is really no reason anymore to hate on LT1's over an ignition system. Like I said, you can still stick a distributor in it if you like, that's the cheapest way to go. You wind up with a gen 1 and fast burn cylinder heads. They are much more retro swap friendly too.

  17. #37
    Senior Member MrMasterCraft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    It's only fault that I ever found was it's inability to live at high rpms all the time.
    So if you're doing a purpose-built track only car, this would be a key element on the parts list to consider...


    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    GM recommends the opti's be changed every 70,000 miles.
    That's about right, mine failed at 80k, then again at 140 something


    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I think GM would have been better off to stick with a conventional distributor (wouldn't work well in the F-body however) As a matter of fact, All LT1 blocks still have the provisions to switch back to a rear mount distributor, and many swaps incorporate this.
    How expensive would this be, parts only?


    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Nowadays there are several companies making conversion kits to coil-per-cylinder and other variations. So the opti can be completely eliminated if you like. So there is really no reason anymore to hate on LT1's over an ignition system.
    Agreed... to a certain extent. If LS1s can manage 450RWHP and sing well above 6k RPMs season after season at the track, without ignition problems.... then yeah, that's something to think about. Especially if alot of us out there are considering "budget built track cars". Most would say there's no such thing, but alot of us, especially in this economy, are trying to find the cheapest route to go faster down the 1320. Just one of the very very very few reasons why I prefer the LS over the LT


    Quote Originally Posted by FasstChevys View Post
    Yea - the ignition makes the LT1 a bad engine.
    Engine runs by.....? Air/Fuel/Spark? It's not rocket science smartass

  18. #38
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I'll try to help without all the fancy quoting.

    I wasn't referring to a purpose built track car, even a daily driver that will see some track time or spirited driving could benefit. It's the kids I was referring to that get out there and zing the crap out of the cars thinking they will last forever, eventually you will have problems with something, and lack of maintainance only compounds the issue.

    To do a distributor swap is the cheapest way to go. A plug is made for the timing cover, and the intake hole is easily done. The block already has the provisions. It's as simple as running a new set of plug wires and of course some computer control trickery. On the retro swaps I did, I simply used Howell, who custom made a harness and supplied the computer with a tune ready to go. Plug and play. Very easy.

    As far as the cheapest route, I don't share your enthusiasm. I don't find LS motors the cheapest and most reliable route to go fast down the 1320. They still haven't had the luxury of being on the market for 50+ years, so the aftermarket is still quite expensive for them. Used motors still aren't a dime a dozen either. And the aluminum blocks are a waste for high mileage rebuilds. Not to mention they aren't the easiest engine to retro swap, with goofy oil pans, motor mounts, bell housing bolt patterns, a crank register that is 1/2 inch off of anything else requiring spacers, I can go on and on. This just adds to the cost.
    The point being, the LT1 is much more friendly when it comes to this stuff, since it still uses Gen 1 design features making it as simply as removing a gen 1 engine and bolting in the LT1 without any fancy bracketry or adaptors.
    As far as the power aspect, LS1's only real advantage is it's 15 degree cylinder heads, that's where the power comes from. Comparing to gen1 or gen2 23 degree heads is like apples to oranges.
    Many dyno tests have been down this road before. Put them on an even playing field and then it really doesn't matter too much which engine platform you choose.

  19. #39
    Senior Member MrMasterCraft's Avatar
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    You're talking engines only. I was still under the assumption we were comparing the LT1 fbody to the LS1 fbody. As far as the distributor swap goes, that would be time a major PITA unless you drop the K-member. Then it goes into being time consuming, especially for somebody going by an internet how-to tutorial, who's never done it before.

    Everything you've said makes sense. I'm not one into retro-swaps myself, but I don't get too excited when I see an old classic running down the road either. That's just me and everyone is different. One day, I WILL have my SN95 LS powered stang though

  20. #40
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMasterCraft View Post
    You're talking engines only. I was still under the assumption we were comparing the LT1 fbody to the LS1 fbody. As far as the distributor swap goes, that would be time a major PITA unless you drop the K-member. Then it goes into being time consuming, especially for somebody going by an internet how-to tutorial, who's never done it before.

    Everything you've said makes sense. I'm not one into retro-swaps myself, but I don't get too excited when I see an old classic running down the road either. That's just me and everyone is different. One day, I WILL have my SN95 LS powered stang though
    I am talking both, and already mentioned how a distributor swap wouldn't work well in a 4th gen in my previous post. In which case the swap to coil per cylinder would be a good alternative.

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