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tard in a supra

This is a discussion on tard in a supra within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; 1997 Toyota Supra - weight - 3460 pounds - Horsepower - stock : 320 crank- 3.0 Liter I6 cylinder- Twin ...

  1. #41
    Every day is a gift-enjoy preston1980's Avatar
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    1997 Toyota Supra- weight- 3460 pounds-
    Horsepower- stock : 320 crank- 3.0 Liter I6 cylinder- Twin Cam 24V- Twin Turbo-
    -Quarter mile: 13.3 sec. 0-60: 5.1 sec. Final Drive Ratio: 3.133:1
    6 speed- (1st: 3.827:1, 2nd: 2.36:1, 3rd: 1.685:1, 4th: 1.312:1, 5th: 1.00:1, 6th: 0.793:1)

    2002 Trans Am/WS6 - Weight- 3450 Pounds-
    Horsepower Stock: T/A: WS6: 325 Crank-LS1 5.7 Liter-
    -Quarter mile:WS6-13.2 sec. 0-60: 5.0 sec. Final Drive Ratio: 3:42:1
    T-56 Speed- (1st: 2.66:1, 2nd: 1.78:1, 3rd:1.30:1, 4th: 1.00:1, 5th:0.74:1, 6th:0.50:1)

    The research I have done on the net says that the TT Supra and a WS6, both being 6 speeds, are close in the quarter mile and 0-60 times, but top end goes to the Supra, because of the tranny gearing. The Supra can still pull in 5th and 6th gear, as to the LS1 can NOT pull in 6th gear, and actually the Supras 6 gear is lower than the LS1 5th gear. And a rear end gear of 3.08:1 is a better highway gear than the 3.42:1 in the TA.
    A Supra can indeed travel 175 plus, as long as it has no speed governor, with a higher redline than the LS1 engine. And aerodynamics are better in the Supra. A WS6 can not top 160 at redline in 5th gear.

    Also both cars weigh about the same, also they were both under rated and really have around 340-350 horsepower. As far as RWHP, The TA's seem to have a little higher numbers on the net. But they are real close. Althought the LS1 does win in the torque department, stock vs stock that is. And remember the engine in the Supra is an inline engine, not a V, and I read that a inline engine breaths alot better at high rpms, than a V engine does. Not sure why, but thats what I read.

    A race from 30 to 90 would prob go to the TA, a race from 70- 150 would prob go to the Supra. This is just my opinion, taken from the net and differant mags Ive read. Feel free to correct anything Ive messed up on.
    A 97 TT 15 aniversary Supra and a 02 WS6 are a very close comparison, The 2jz-gte I6 motor can handle up to 960 horsepower, an LS1 will need an iron block and a few internals changed out to support those numbers. But both cars are very nice cars, I think we can all agree on that.

    If I had to drive one of the 2 vehicles every day, I would pick the TA. I need things like dual exhaust and some American rumble coming from the pipes, Although the Coffee can look is cool to.

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by preston1980

    The research I have done on the net says that the TT Supra and a WS6, both being 6 speeds, are close in the quarter mile and 0-60 times, but top end goes to the Supra, because of the tranny gearing. The Supra can still pull in 5th and 6th gear, as to the LS1 can NOT pull in 6th gear, and actually the Supras 6 gear is lower than the LS1 5th gear. And a rear end gear of 3.08:1 is a better highway gear than the 3.42:1 in the TA.
    Your numbers are way off my friend. The LS1 doesn't need to go into 6th gear until 181MPH, it can stay in 5th until that speed. So it has just as good or better top end than the Supra, which has much shorter gears.

    First you say shorter gears are better for top end, but then you say the taller rear end ratio of the Supra is better for top end...confliciting statements there.

    A Supra can indeed travel 175 plus, as long as it has no speed governor, with a higher redline than the LS1 engine. And aerodynamics are better in the Supra. A WS6 can not top 160 at redline in 5th gear.
    I'd like to see a Supra hit "175+MPH", I seriously doubt that would happen. LS1's don't redline at 160MPH in 5th, I don't know where you are pulling these BS numbers from. It will pull all the way to 181MPH in 5th, which the Supra definitely can't do.

    Also both cars weigh about the same, also they were both under rated and really have around 340-350 horsepower. As far as RWHP, The TA's seem to have a little higher numbers on the net. But they are real close. Althought the LS1 does win in the torque department, stock vs stock that is. And remember the engine in the Supra is an inline engine, not a V, and I read that a inline engine breaths alot better at high rpms, than a V engine does. Not sure why, but thats what I read.
    Probably some stupid rumor that was started on the Supra forum. Inline engines don't "breathe better" than V engines, thats nonsense.

    A race from 30 to 90 would prob go to the TA, a race from 70- 150 would prob go to the Supra. This is just my opinion, taken from the net and differant mags Ive read. Feel free to correct anything Ive messed up on.
    A 97 TT 15 aniversary Supra and a 02 WS6 are a very close comparison, The 2jz-gte I6 motor can handle up to 960 horsepower, an LS1 will need an iron block and a few internals changed out to support those numbers. But both cars are very nice cars, I think we can all agree on that.
    I say the LS1 would beat out the Supra at any speed. They don't need close ratio gear boxes to stay in the powerband, and the LS1's powerband is much more flexible than the Supras.

    Although the Coffee can look is cool to.
    *Shudder*

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    Every day is a gift-enjoy preston1980's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Your numbers are way off my friend. The LS1 doesn't need to go into 6th gear until 181MPH, it can stay in 5th until that speed. So it has just as good or better top end than the Supra, which has much shorter gears.

    First you say shorter gears are better for top end, but then you say the taller rear end ratio of the Supra is better for top end...confliciting statements there.



    I'd like to see a Supra hit "175+MPH", I seriously doubt that would happen. LS1's don't redline at 160MPH in 5th, I don't know where you are pulling these BS numbers from. It will pull all the way to 181MPH in 5th, which the Supra definitely can't do.
    When tranny gears are taller they lack pulling power. Its a simple math eqaution, your horsepower times the gear you arfe in. EX 5th gear in a LS1 is .74:1, which means every .74 times the flywheel spins, the gear in the tranny spins 1 full time. So it takes more horsepower to turn the gear the smaller the ratio gets. So lower gears in the tranny helps you use your horsepower to propell you to a higher speed. The rear end gears, however are differant. they are the same no matter what gear you are in or what speed the flywheel spins at. So a taller rear end gear will spin the driveshaft at a slower speed which will take less power to maintain a higher miles per hour. So the 3.08:1 rear gear is better for high speeds, but no good for low end speeds. Its all about putting horsepower to the ground, and the Supras set up gets more horsepower to the ground at higher speeds because of gearing.

    My top end numbers come from my own experiance. I have had 2 LS1 TA's. I have had my M6 99 TA at 6000 rpms in 5th gear and my speedo was a little past the 155 mark, I estimate 160 in 5th gear at 6000 or so rpms. Then when I put it in 6th it slowed down (unless I was on a hill)
    So I dont think they are BS numbers. They are numbers from experiance.

    The Supra uses all 6 gears to pull to its top speed, the LS1 can only use 5 gears, 6th gear is a .50:1, which is usless to pull in. It makes since that the Supra will get more top end, especially because it can rev higher (6800 rpms vs 6000 rpms) and this website says the 2JZ GTE Supra will do 195 miles per hour (315 kilometers per hour)
    http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/en/...ZA80/jza80.htm

    and this site says the WS6 top speed (estimated) is 165 mph
    http://www.modernracer.com/pontiacfi...ransamws6.html

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    Every day is a gift-enjoy preston1980's Avatar
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    here is a supra doing 162 in just a qaurter mile
    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/67512/..._in_the_world/

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    Every day is a gift-enjoy preston1980's Avatar
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    here is a cool site with a lot of Q&A's for the Supra
    http://ezinearticles.com/?FAQ-on-Mod...-Supra&id=9214

    I got this qoute from that site

    "What is a BPU™'d Supra TT's top speed?
    Speeds in the mid-high 180mph range should be achievable. Once the speed-limiter is disabled, by pulling the "TRAC" fuse of course."

  6. #46
    Every day is a gift-enjoy preston1980's Avatar
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    Here is another cool quote from that site:
    Sorry to highjack this thread, but Im bored as hell, its 2 in the morning and ther isnt shit on tv.

    How the hell do you spell Quote, quate???

    "How can I remove the factory 155mph speed limiter?
    Remove the fuse for the Trac system. The speed limiter works through the Trac throttle body.
    What is the Supra TT's top speed with the Trac fuse removed?
    There is some debate on this subject. There are rumors that 180 can be achieved. But by going with the numbers, 168-172mph in stock form seems possible.
    What is the Supra TT's maximum theoretical top speed? Can it exceed 200mph with enough power?
    Lets find out.
    The Supra TT with the 6-speed has a stock engine redline of 6800rpm, and a 6th gear ratio of .79:1, with a rear axle ratio of 3.13:1. Now we multiply our 6th gear ratio times our rear axle ratio, and we find out our final gear ratio is 2.472:1. Now we divide 6800rpm by our total gear reduction of 2.472:1 and we find out our rear axles, and therefore wheels are spinning at 2751rpm at 6800 engine rpms.
    Now we need to calculate our tire circumference. The rear tires section width it 255mm, and the sidewall's aspect ratio is .40, so our sidewalls are 102mm. Now, to convert this to inches, we divide this by 25.4, which equal’s 4.015 inches. Now multiply this by two, since we have two sidewalls making up the total diameter, and add the wheel diameter of 17", and we see a total diameter of 25.031 inches. Now to find out our circumference, we multiply that number times pi (3.14), and we find out the circumference is 78.59 inches, now divide that by 12 to convert to feet. And we get 6.549 feet total circumference.
    Now multiply our tire's revolving speed, by the tire's outside circumference, and we find that the tire is covering 18,016 feet per minute, divide that by the 5280 feet in a mile, and we find we are covering 3.412 miles per minute, now multiply that by the 60 minutes in an hour, and we find we are traveling 204.7miles per hour @ 6800rpm in 6th gear. If the engines redline is increased to 7500rpm, which it often is, because of a higher flowing turbo. Then our maximum speed would be 225.8mph, given enough power of course."
    For more go to Http://www.ausdriftcar.cjb.net

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    Damn Preston, get some sleep will ya!

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    This is incorrect. I've owned 2. The a4 dyno'd 288 and the m6 dyno'd 315. Highest stock TT dyno on record is 345. Check any mag and you'll see they run mid 13's@104 or so. Seems you just pulled your information directly from you butt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakewood View Post
    Supras are a riceboys wet dream, they dyno at about 270hp stock and are dogs. Why anybody would pay $40,000 for a stock one I have no idea.

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    My god your clueless. This is a car that can run low 12's with a grand invested. Free mods put it over 350 rwhp, spend $500 for dp and exhaust and you're over 400 rwhp. And the car will handle that 400 rwhp for 250k miles. 800 rwhp is a $7200 turbo kit away. Find me any modern sports car that'll handle 800 rwhp reliably. Do you really think you can do that in a V8 (or any engine ever) for $3600???

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    And you can buy the new GM LSX block that holds 2500HP no problem.

    Not impressed by Supras.

    And by the time you get to that 1000HP limit, you could have spent half as much money to make the same amount of power with a V8, and it wouldn't be a dyno queen, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LS1scgoat View Post
    My god your clueless. This is a car that can run low 12's with a grand invested. Free mods put it over 350 rwhp, spend $500 for dp and exhaust and you're over 400 rwhp. And the car will handle that 400 rwhp for 250k miles. 800 rwhp is a $7200 turbo kit away. Find me any modern sports car that'll handle 800 rwhp reliably. Do you really think you can do that in a V8 (or any engine ever) for $3600???
    Dude you are full of shit. Those numbers are so exaggerated its ridiculous.

    It will run low 12's with $1K?? Who are you trying to fool here?? And you pull some random bullshit statement like "the car can handle 400WHP for 250K miles". What, did you get a test group together, make all the cars have 400WHP, and then run them for 250K to prove this theory?? GTFO with that crap.

    800WHP is only $7200 away?? Maybe you should do some research, there are LS1's and LS2's with Supercharger and Turbocharger kits for that much, and they can make just as much power.

    And where is this $3600 figure coming from?? You just said it takes a $7200 turbo kit to make a claimed 800WHP, not you're saying it costs $3600 to make 800WHP. You need to stop exaggerating the Supras potential and get a grip on reality

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    Wesman for President!

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by preston1980 View Post
    When tranny gears are taller they lack pulling power. Its a simple math eqaution, your horsepower times the gear you arfe in. EX 5th gear in a LS1 is .74:1, which means every .74 times the flywheel spins, the gear in the tranny spins 1 full time. So it takes more horsepower to turn the gear the smaller the ratio gets. So lower gears in the tranny helps you use your horsepower to propell you to a higher speed. The rear end gears, however are differant. they are the same no matter what gear you are in or what speed the flywheel spins at. So a taller rear end gear will spin the driveshaft at a slower speed which will take less power to maintain a higher miles per hour. So the 3.08:1 rear gear is better for high speeds, but no good for low end speeds. Its all about putting horsepower to the ground, and the Supras set up gets more horsepower to the ground at higher speeds because of gearing.
    You are very confused.

    It doesn't matter where the gearing is, it matters what the final drive gear ratios are. So whether the Supra gets its claimed gearing advantage by having shorter transmission gears or a shorter differential ratio is totally irrelevent.

    My top end numbers come from my own experiance. I have had 2 LS1 TA's. I have had my M6 99 TA at 6000 rpms in 5th gear and my speedo was a little past the 155 mark, I estimate 160 in 5th gear at 6000 or so rpms. Then when I put it in 6th it slowed down (unless I was on a hill)
    So I dont think they are BS numbers. They are numbers from experiance.
    Obviously your speedo was off. 5th gear with 3.42's tops out at 181MPH with 25.66" tall tires. Perhaps you had smaller tires, and therefore topped out 5th gear earlier. A Supra is not faster than an LS1 on the top end, 5th gear in a stock LS1 is perfect for hitting top speed. There is no need for 6th gear until above 181MPH, and no stock F-Body or Supra will go that fast.

    The Supra uses all 6 gears to pull to its top speed, the LS1 can only use 5 gears, 6th gear is a .50:1, which is usless to pull in. It makes since that the Supra will get more top end, especially because it can rev higher (6800 rpms vs 6000 rpms) and this website says the 2JZ GTE Supra will do 195 miles per hour (315 kilometers per hour)
    http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/en/...ZA80/jza80.htm
    Dude I'm going to tell you this one time: Use some common sense

    The top speed of the C6 Z06 is approximately 198-200MPH. Thats with excellent aeordynamics and about 470WHP. So how do you figure the less aerodynamic Supra, with 200WHP less, is going to hit 195MPH?? Thats totally absurd, just think about that for a minute.

    and this site says the WS6 top speed (estimated) is 165 mph
    http://www.modernracer.com/pontiacfi...ransamws6.html
    Thats merely some "estimated" guess from that ricer site. Not legit at all, the only thing thing that wil prove the real top speed is a test by a legit mag such as C&D or MT where they actually take it out on a track and hit the top speed.

    And I really don't give 2 shits about some highly modified drag car Supra doing 160MPH in the 1/4 mile. What do you think, no Camaro or Mustang has ever achieved that?? Please...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHayesLS1 View Post
    Wesman for President!

    +1

    I remember posting something about the record holder on the CAM dyno was a Supra with 900 whp.

    I went there today with my buddy who has a 350Z with all the bolt-ons, and I mean ALL. He put down a whopping 250 whp!

    Damn, my boy was all upset about spending all that time and money to mod that car and get 20 whp! Afterwards, he regretted even getting it dynoed. But to his defense, it was running way lean and there was no way to tune the A/F mixture with the equipment at the LS1 shop.

    Anyway, I was talking to the guy about the Supra that they dynoed with 900 whp, and he said a couple things you guys might find interesting...

    1. The power curve was flatlined before the turbo's kicked in, and then it spiked sharply at high rpm, hardly the kind of power you would enjoy b/c when the turbo's aren't spooled the car is gutless, and when the turbos kicked in, it was a complete handful to keep straight.

    2. The guy hardly drives the car as a result of its street unfriendliness. DYNO QUEEN (<--the dyno guy's quote)

    3. Just finished putting a 414 cube C5R motor with LS7 heads and a blower in a 2001 Corvette, put 850 rwhp to the ground on pump gas, and with race gas and a few more #'s she put 1100 ponies to the wheels!!!
    Last edited by Roastem; 03-06-2007 at 01:03 PM. Reason: gd spell check

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    Every day is a gift-enjoy preston1980's Avatar
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    Wesman, Im noticing some hostility towards "Ricers" Did you have a dramatic event happend to you involving an import when you were a kid that messed you up. And now you want revenge?

    Remember I love LS1 cars as well, I think they are better than the Supras, but that is just my OPINION. Not a fact. And we are all just having fun here, brother. BTW I love it when you say "Please" after a statement that I made, its very 1990's of you. And it lets everyone know that my statement was "totaly" not worthy. Your an in lightend cat, I like that about you. Keep up the good work.

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    Wesman is a fucking retard. Wesman is "that guy".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    You are very confused.

    It doesn't matter where the gearing is, it matters what the final drive gear ratios are. So whether the Supra gets its claimed gearing advantage by having shorter transmission gears or a shorter differential ratio is totally irrelevent.



    Obviously your speedo was off. 5th gear with 3.42's tops out at 181MPH with 25.66" tall tires. Perhaps you had smaller tires, and therefore topped out 5th gear earlier. A Supra is not faster than an LS1 on the top end, 5th gear in a stock LS1 is perfect for hitting top speed. There is no need for 6th gear until above 181MPH Thats totally absurd, Please...
    You are right about the final drive ratio, and it is better for the Supra for top speeds, because it CAN USE 6TH GEAR. a .79:1 times its rear end ratio of 3.13:1= higher speeds than the LS 5ht gear of .74:1 times its rear gears of 3.42:1

    supra (6th gear x rear gears) final ratio= 2.3
    TA (5th gear x rear gears)final ratio=2.5

    2.3 means more top end available, and 800 more rpms to work with from the Supra.


    Also, My tires were 245/45 ZR16s. and several people have posted that 5ht gear will get you 160 mph on this site. Remember redline is 6 grand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix1987 View Post
    Wesman is a fucking retard. Wesman is "that guy".
    -1

    I disagree. Retards can't type.

    Only lick windows and take their pants completely off to use a wall urinal...

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    Quote Originally Posted by preston1980 View Post
    Wesman, Im noticing some hostility towards "Ricers" Did you have a dramatic event happend to you involving an import when you were a kid that messed you up. And now you want revenge?
    HAHA nope. I just don't like those kinds of cars. Its just like a sports team. I like American cars, so I root for them. Go find a Yankees fan and ask him why he doesn't root for the Red Sox. I think its self explainatory.

    Remember I love LS1 cars as well, I think they are better than the Supras, but that is just my OPINION. Not a fact. And we are all just having fun here, brother. BTW I love it when you say "Please" after a statement that I made, its very 1990's of you. And it lets everyone know that my statement was "totaly" not worthy. Your an in lightend cat, I like that about you. Keep up the good work.
    You obviously spend a lot of effort to dig up all that information. Seemed like you were trying to prove that the Supra was somehow better, so I posted my response to the information that you found. Nothing personal against you though
    Last edited by Wesman; 03-06-2007 at 01:03 PM.

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix1987 View Post
    Wesman is a fucking retard. Wesman is "that guy".
    Real mature response there buddy

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    Every day is a gift-enjoy preston1980's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    HAHA nope. I just don't like those kinds of cars. Its just like a sports team. I like American cars, so I root for them. Go find a Yankees fan and ask him why he doesn't root for the Red Sox. I think its self explainatory.
    You obviously spend a lot of effort to dig up all that information. Seemed like you were trying to prove that the Supra was somehow better, so I posted my response to the information that you found. Nothing personal against you though
    Agreed with the sports comparison, some people just have there favorites. I also prefer an American car to an import, I wasnt trying to prove you wrong, I was just bored and was trying to put the factgs out there, I think the facts are much more fun than a someones opinion. either way, its all good. And by the way, Cobras are better than both the Supra and the WS6, Ha Ha, just kidding.

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