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shed some light please

This is a discussion on shed some light please within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Ok I went to look at another camaro and was possibly going to sell mine to my brother. First off ...

  1. #1
    Member JRENIGAR's Avatar
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    red
    99 camaro

    shed some light please

    Ok I went to look at another camaro and was possibly going to sell mine to my brother. First off mine is a 99 z auto with 3.23's, full exhaust, ported tb, frost mail order tune, slp lid, smooth bellows, poly lca's, subframe conn, and still has ls1 intake. My car has 170k on the stock engine and trans running the 16x8 stockers with sumitomo htrz,s for grip. The car I went to drive is a 2000 z with 120k on the clock and has tsp 2.5 cnc 5.3 heads with another .020 milled off them to supposedly make 11.1 comp ratio, 228r cam with 112 lsa, ls7 lifters, arp head bolts, ls6 intake, tsp mail order tune, full exhaust, electric cutout, yank 3600 stall, 3.42's, comp dual springs with titanium retainers, ported ls6 oil pump, rod end lca's and 17x9 zr1's with some kind of street tires. Ok, I talked him into running it against my car to see how they compared. First race was from 60 to 110. I beat him 3 cars and he wasnt pulling back any on me. Wierd... Second two times were from stop to 100 or so. I beat him 3 cars both of those times and he wasnt spining. When I drove his car before we raced it felt strong and was a little rich but had good driveability, at the most it needed fine tuned for everything to be perfect but it wasnt bad the way it was. I ran it hard and didnt hear any pinging from the engine to suggest too much timming or to lean afr. My guess is he should have 100rwhp or so more than me and thats why Im asking everyones opinion about this matter. Is there that much hp being lost to a mail order tune? I just dont understand it. Needless to say, I didnt buy the car and was feeling pretty good about my ole high mile stocker on the way home.

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    Member JRENIGAR's Avatar
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    red
    99 camaro

    hmmmm.....

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    Member JRENIGAR's Avatar
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    red
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    Ok, wondering why I havent gotten a response yet. Is the post a dumb one or impossible to geusstimate???

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    artic white
    1998 Pontiac Trans Am

    I had my car mail order tuned by TSP, and the car was good, but after a couple years, I sent comp, to Frost, and it was a noticeable improvement. That could be the difference.
    Suncoast Creations hood, p&p throttle body, LS6 intake, Dart 225cc 2.02/1.60 heads, TSP 233/239 cam, Hooker headers, 3" duals, Yank SY 4000 stall, LS6 oil pump, double roller timing chain, iridium plugs, Moser 12 bolt with 3.73 gears. Vizage body kit.
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2658525

  5. #5
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Frost will be the first to say that H/C cars need a REAL DYNO TUNE! Mail Order tunes suck balls for H/C cars. My car has H/C and doesn't move out anywhere close to what it should because I'm on a mail order tune. Dyno tune is coming for my birthday. I'm expecting about a 20+ rwhp increase. I'm running pig rich right now. Frost is awesome but not a miracle worker
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    artic white
    1998 Pontiac Trans Am

    Frost did well with mine. I'm at 12.9 afr at wot, can't complain on that. Besides it's 500 miles for me to get a dyno tune.

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    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hwystar View Post
    Frost did well with mine. I'm at 12.9 afr at wot, can't complain on that. Besides it's 500 miles for me to get a dyno tune.
    Not trying to diss Frost at all, I just know if you ask anyone (Including Frost) they will tell you a dyno is the way to go for H/C cars. Your WOT may be good but how is all the other aspects a tune deals with. Throttle at 12%, 50%, etc.... So much goes into it that its mind numbing. I hear you on the 500 miles part, I have to travel to get mine done also

    Not as far as you but still a couple hours.

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    artic white
    1998 Pontiac Trans Am

    I know Frost isn't perfect,but he will get to tune it again after I get my turbo kit installed. I might have found someone that will fine tune it on the street. And he's only 2.5 hrs away. I just need it drivable enough to get it there. A hands on tune is the only way to if it's available.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    The car as you describe it,,,with a 228 cam, ported/milled heads, 3600 stall, yada yada.....is generally an 11 second car on a good day.

    I'd hate to speculate why your simple bolt on car outruns it,,,,but it could be a many number of things.

    But I will say,,,,a car with mods like that,,with a camshaft, heads and what not,,,,could probably really use a dyno tune,,,,or a very well done street tune with alot of seat time to dial everything in.
    I wouldn't depend completely on a mail order tune for a car like that. Generally a mail order tune for a car modified to that extent is usually done just to get it close and driveable so it can be taken to a dyno to dial it in further.

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    Member JRENIGAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    The car as you describe it,,,with a 228 cam, ported/milled heads, 3600 stall, yada yada.....is generally an 11 second car on a good day.

    I'd hate to speculate why your simple bolt on car outruns it,,,,but it could be a many number of things.

    But I will say,,,,a car with mods like that,,with a camshaft, heads and what not,,,,could probably really use a dyno tune,,,,or a very well done street tune with alot of seat time to dial everything in.
    I wouldn't depend completely on a mail order tune for a car like that. Generally a mail order tune for a car modified to that extent is usually done just to get it close and driveable so it can be taken to a dyno to dial it in further.
    I agree, I just thought since It drove decent that a tune wouldnt be a 100rwhp or so diff like the mods suggest, Or Am I off on the 100rwhp diff on a car like his when tuned porperly?? BtW This morning I raced a 05 vette with an auto trans. We did two 60-100 or so runs and he won by about 3 lengths both times. Maybe that should give yall some insight as to how fast mine is as I have never been to the track with it and dont have any #'s to go by.

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    2007 Cadillac Escalade
    98 Camaro SS, 09 G8 GT

    I would bet money his trans is slipping. I ran into the same problem with my car. I have a 98 auto SS. With a catback and lid I was running 13.1's all day with no issues. After I did the heads and cam, whenever I go WOT it just slips and I bounce off the rev limiter. I can however still daily drive the car, it just doesn't like WOT. I would have it checked out but that would definitely solve your riddle.

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    Member blackcar's Avatar
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    2000 Camaro SS
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    It's all in your lid and smooth bellow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcar View Post
    It's all in your lid and smooth bellow.
    Id love to agree with you but Id have to see some dyno results. Hmmm, If only SLP made a lid kit that made 100rwhp for $200. Could it really be that simple?

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    Member JRENIGAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deezl SS View Post
    I would bet money his trans is slipping. I ran into the same problem with my car. I have a 98 auto SS. With a catback and lid I was running 13.1's all day with no issues. After I did the heads and cam, whenever I go WOT it just slips and I bounce off the rev limiter. I can however still daily drive the car, it just doesn't like WOT. I would have it checked out but that would definitely solve your riddle.
    I thought about that but the only thing that makes me kinda doubtful is when I drove the car I kicked it down several times and it shifted at 6400 evry time and didnt hit the limiter, although, he might have had it set really high knowing it had a lil slip to it.

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    light pewter metallic
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    ^ how many stickers do you have on your car?

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRENIGAR View Post
    I thought about that but the only thing that makes me kinda doubtful is when I drove the car I kicked it down several times and it shifted at 6400 evry time and didnt hit the limiter, although, he might have had it set really high knowing it had a lil slip to it.
    That rpm would be about right for a head/cam car anyway, it should make power up to 6500 or so, and shift points would be set in that area accordingly to take advantage. So you would in affect bump the limiter a couple hundred rpm higher than that.

    I shift mine at 6500 with a little LS6 type of cam, and I set the limiter at 6700.

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    Member JRENIGAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pewterz55 View Post
    ^ how many stickers do you have on your car?
    None...

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    Member JRENIGAR's Avatar
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    well, the guy called me and is going a diff route and wanted to sell the parts on his car. ls6 int, heads, cam, and pushrods for $1200. What would yall do? He also would sell the yank 3500 for $500. I also know where some slp heads are for $450. Would that be a better route and have eps custom grind a cam? Keep in mind this car travels 100 miles a day at 70-80 on the interstate and would see no track time just kickdowns on the interstate from time to time.
    Last edited by JRENIGAR; 02-17-2011 at 07:49 AM.

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