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My 5.0 vs LS1 Z28

This is a discussion on My 5.0 vs LS1 Z28 within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; yeah those numbers are a little low for a 10.5:1, heads, cam motor. i would say 270-290 depending on the ...

  1. #21
    LETS RACE! EVO 9's Avatar
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    yeah those numbers are a little low for a 10.5:1, heads, cam motor. i would say 270-290 depending on the rest of the setup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EVO 9 View Post
    yeah those numbers are a little low for a 10.5:1, heads, cam motor. i would say 270-290 depending on the rest of the setup.
    They said it made 340hp. It makes 340hp. I got what I payed for.

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    Ok - but 340 at the crank should be ~290 at the rear wheels. Of course, if you're happy with it, that is the main thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    Ok - but 340 at the crank should be ~290 at the rear wheels. Of course, if you're happy with it, that is the main thing.
    No. Crate motors are rated GROSS, not SAE. Every single crate motor I ever saw was GROSS. Keith Craft for instance rates his at 375. I called and he says about 300whp is about what they are good for usually. I was pissed at first as well, however once I figured out that I had misunderstood the terms and it was performing as advertised, I just bit the bullet and learned my lesson...marketing hype works.

    A crate motor will lose 23-27% from it's gross rating to the tires according to Keith. Seems he was dead on w/my motor (Built by Central Coast Mustangs).

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    Just to clarify...."Gross" HP is HP at the crank without any accessories (power steering, altenator, etc). That's what they used to do in the 60's. "Net" HP is HP at the crank with your normal accessories running. Automakers started using this standard in the early 70s.

    "SAE" is a HP correction that takes any HP number (Gross, Net, rear wheel, whatever) and converts it to what the HP would be at 77F, 29.21 in/hg, and 0% humidity. "STD" is another standard, which corrects to 59F, 29.92 in/hg, and 0% humidity.

    In short, you can have a "Gross" SAE or STD number or a "Net" SAE or STD number or even a "Gross" uncorrected number or a "Net" uncorrected number - but you can't go from "Gross" to "SAE" as stated above. Probably just a terminology miscommunication.

    It is certainly quite possible that those crate motors are indeed rated Gross, and hence your RWHP. And I agree totally on the marketing hype - tough lesson to learn, as it is easy to get a LOT more HP out of a heads/cam/intake 302.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    Just to clarify...."Gross" HP is HP at the crank without any accessories (power steering, altenator, etc). That's what they used to do in the 60's. "Net" HP is HP at the crank with your normal accessories running. Automakers started using this standard in the early 70s.

    "SAE" is a HP correction that takes any HP number (Gross, Net, rear wheel, whatever) and converts it to what the HP would be at 77F, 29.21 in/hg, and 0% humidity. "STD" is another standard, which corrects to 59F, 29.92 in/hg, and 0% humidity.

    In short, you can have a "Gross" SAE or STD number or a "Net" SAE or STD number or even a "Gross" uncorrected number or a "Net" uncorrected number - but you can't go from "Gross" to "SAE" as stated above. Probably just a terminology miscommunication.

    It is certainly quite possible that those crate motors are indeed rated Gross, and hence your RWHP. And I agree totally on the marketing hype - tough lesson to learn, as it is easy to get a LOT more HP out of a heads/cam/intake 302.

    I was butthurt when I discovered how they rated it

    THe most hp you will get NA out of a pump-gas/streetable 302/306 is about 330whp. That is with LT's, AFR heads, custom ground cam, ect. ect. ect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stanger88 View Post
    I was butthurt when I discovered how they rated it

    THe most hp you will get NA out of a pump-gas/streetable 302/306 is about 330whp. That is with LT's, AFR heads, custom ground cam, ect. ect. ect.


    Put it to ya did they? Go on and walk it out

    I told you to invest in a head/cam package, but noooooo, you wouldn't listen to me!
    Last edited by Roastem; 03-28-2007 at 06:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roastem View Post


    Put it to ya did they? Go on and walk it out

    I told you to invest in a head/cam package, but noooooo, you wouldn't listen to me!
    I have had this motor for 2 years...

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackz-lt1 View Post
    im surprised u hung with him...this is why i cant stand 5.0's (no offense) look at that mod list and still cant break over 250rwhp....also considering in my opinion they are the ugliest looking attempted sports car that has ever been produced...nothin can make these cars look good, sorry im not tryin to bash you, i just think 5.0's are pathetic, and yes i knows theres a bunch that will hand me my ass, but theres more that wont
    I have H/C/I and put down 265/306. His big mod list consisted of a lot of suspension and chassis mods too.

    I'm not hating on the LS1's by any means. My friends car is down right sick, '98 or '99 Z w/D1, cam, long tubes, and an x pipe. It put down 540rwhp, but it was detuned down to 500rwhp to save his block. He's gone 12.2 on Toyo Proxes. It put down 376rwhp with just the cam and exhaust, so LS1's are mean cars.

    The only reason I would race one with my car the way it is now is if I got stuck next to him at the strip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90fox View Post
    I have H/C/I and put down 265/306. His big mod list consisted of a lot of suspension and chassis mods too.

    I'm not hating on the LS1's by any means. My friends car is down right sick, '98 or '99 Z w/D1, cam, long tubes, and an x pipe. It put down 540rwhp, but it was detuned down to 500rwhp to save his block. He's gone 12.2 on Toyo Proxes. It put down 376rwhp with just the cam and exhaust, so LS1's are mean cars.

    The only reason I would race one with my car the way it is now is if I got stuck next to him at the strip.
    Yeah, and I bet you had heads like FRPP Y303 or other ford aluminum heads and an E-cam or something similar. Just my guess. Good numbers though, you should be hot on the heels of a stock LS1. I jsut gave up and went with an 01 M6 WS6. Meh, it is more refined too and gets almsot 30mpg

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    Hey guys just gonna chime in here. Being both a fan of the 85 Z28 (i own) and the 93 Fox GT(which I also own) It is a tuff shot to say that 5.0's arnt what they are cracked up to be. If you build a car right and I mean RIGHT you can spend 6000$ on a car buying and bolting parts that are counter productive. It all comes down to what your gonna do and weather or not your gonna do it right. Either way. I love both my 5.7(Z28) and My 5.0(GT). First Post buy the way. But this thread just cought my eye lol. Also, My misses has a 88(IROC-Z) shes a fuckin keeper lol!!!-Rev
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendZ28 View Post
    Hey guys just gonna chime in here. Being both a fan of the 85 Z28 (i own) and the 93 Fox GT(which I also own) It is a tuff shot to say that 5.0's arnt what they are cracked up to be. If you build a car right and I mean RIGHT you can spend 6000$ on a car buying and bolting parts that are counter productive. It all comes down to what your gonna do and weather or not your gonna do it right. Either way. I love both my 5.7(Z28) and My 5.0(GT). First Post buy the way. But this thread just cought my eye lol. Also, My misses has a 88(IROC-Z) shes a fuckin keeper lol!!!-Rev
    right/wrong.

    Right that you can piss money and go nowhere with a 5.0. Wrong in that they can be "fast" for "reasonable money".

    YOU WILL NOT MAKE! more than 340whp out of a pump-gas daily driven 302/306 without forced induction. Period. And THAT! is why I got the WS6. 300whp stock. I love it. BTW...family photo taken today

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    Ok, but properly setup, that 340 RWHP can go mid 11s and still be quite streetable. Certainly the LS1 has way more potential - but that hardly means the 5.0 can't be quite a performer.

    Go attend an NMRA race some time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    Ok, but properly setup, that 340 RWHP can go mid 11s and still be quite streetable. Certainly the LS1 has way more potential - but that hardly means the 5.0 can't be quite a performer.

    Go attend an NMRA race some time.
    Oh I know 340whp in a 5.0 is VERY capable. My friend runs 12.2@109 with an estimated 320whp in his 86'. My point is that from a roll an LS1 with headers would be a handful, most people run from a roll now days b/c stopping on I20 is usually a no-no, lol. In daily life a 5.0 just sucks unless you can hit it from a light every time.

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    A one gear, 75 mph punch. I thought roll races were gay, but this takes the cake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stills View Post
    A one gear, 75 mph punch. I thought roll races were gay, but this takes the cake.
    Took the words right out of my mouth bro. hell, it would be no different to do a dyno pull calculate the weight of the car and decide the winner that way. 300 rwhp in a fox mustang will net 11's with proper set up. i have NEVER seen a 300rwhp F-body run 11's with any set up, and rarely 12's.
    Sold- 2001 SS 11.87 @120.5 Mph 465 rwhp 613 ft lbs of tq (gas).NOW: 93 5.0 Notchback, 347 stroker daily driver with A/C and P/S. Lentech Tranny 3000 stall, MT Drag radials. 11.91@113 on motor.-10.90's @ 123(1.51 60'), on a little 75 dry shot. 345 rwhp(motor)- 426 rwhp on gas.

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    Senior Member cam02ss's Avatar
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    You gotta be kidding me..this has to be the gayest shit EVER...and I thought the 50 mph roll race was retarded. who the fuck starts at 75mph? what are we driving ferrari's now or something? 4th gear...give me a fuckin break

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    Quote Originally Posted by cam02ss View Post
    You gotta be kidding me..this has to be the gayest shit EVER...and I thought the 50 mph roll race was retarded. who the fuck starts at 75mph? what are we driving ferrari's now or something? 4th gear...give me a fuckin break
    You just like to stir the pot dont you?

    race 1: 2nd gear roll. he was alone, i had a passenger. it was real close, i ended up edging him out by a little, he ended up right near my rear fender.

    race 2: i started in 2nd again, he in 3rd gear. NOW our cars were dead even, every time we shifted we were right next to one another. we had to stop the race early since there were cars up ahead but we plan on running again soon.
    real cool guy, we each gave one another many props on the cars, he even let me drive the cobra. have to say it impressed me. wicked car
    ran an '03 cobra and an 05 gto

    Sound like something someone we know posted? A little roll-race perhapse? DAMN! He even had to start in THIRD. Wow.... And you cut short for cars? IMAGINE THAT? Maybe me running up to 115 on I20 ISNT so bad, huh?

    Either STFU or contribute. You SET UP! a roll-race. I just happened along headed home on I20. At least I didn't set that up. You consciously decided that you would prefer a roll race. And you had one. So what? I could care less, but dont come start shit with me when you do the same damn thing.
    Last edited by stanger88; 03-31-2007 at 03:32 PM.

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    Senior Member cam02ss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanger88 View Post
    You just like to stir the pot dont you?

    race 1: 2nd gear roll. he was alone, i had a passenger. it was real close, i ended up edging him out by a little, he ended up right near my rear fender.

    race 2: i started in 2nd again, he in 3rd gear. NOW our cars were dead even, every time we shifted we were right next to one another. we had to stop the race early since there were cars up ahead but we plan on running again soon.
    real cool guy, we each gave one another many props on the cars, he even let me drive the cobra. have to say it impressed me. wicked car
    ran an '03 cobra and an 05 gto

    Sound like something someone we know posted? A little roll-race perhapse? DAMN! He even had to start in THIRD. Wow.... And you cut short for cars? IMAGINE THAT? Maybe me running up to 115 on I20 ISNT so bad, huh?

    Either STFU or contribute. You SET UP! a roll-race. I just happened along headed home on I20. At least I didn't set that up. You consciously decided that you would prefer a roll race. And you had one. So what? I could care less, but dont come start shit with me when you do the same damn thing.

    Where in that thread or this thread did I call roll racing gay? I said that starting at 4th gear at 75mph was gay. The fuck kind of race is that? Run em up through the gears. I said the same thing in that thread about the cobalt and roll racing from 50 mph.

    How does the part about you running up to 115 mph play into any of this? Did I say anything about that...I think not. As for slowing down in my race due to cars up ahead...the fuck do you think I was going to do..run into the back of them?


    but dont come start shit with me when you do the same damn thing.
    "Same damn thing"? 2nd gear at 30 mph is hardly the same as starting in 4th at 75mph. The difference with him starting in 3rd was...you got it.. he HAD TO. Traction provided to be a little bit of trouble for him in 1st, 2nd and we both wanted to see what that thing had under boost..hence the 3rd gear start.
    Last edited by cam02ss; 03-31-2007 at 05:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cam02ss View Post
    Where in that thread or this thread did I call roll racing gay? I said that starting at 4th gear at 75mph was gay. The fuck kind of race is that? Run em up through the gears. I said the same thing in that thread about the cobalt and roll racing from 50 mph.

    How does the part about you running up to 115 mph play into any of this? Did I say anything about that...I think not. As for slowing down in my race due to cars up ahead...the fuck do you think I was going to do..run into the back of them?




    "Same damn thing"? 2nd gear at 30 mph is hardly the same as starting in 4th at 75mph. The difference with him starting in 3rd was...you got it.. he HAD TO. Traction provided a little bit of trouble for him in 1st, 2nd and we both wanted to see what that thing had under boost..hence the 3rd gear start.
    When you have traffic already on your ass and the other guy pacing you and not slowing and a truck in front of you (1/4 mile up) getting nearer and nearer as you approach 115, any slower or faster is just as stupid. I dont weave through traffic when racing unlike some assholes. THAT is the shit that ends bad.


    Point being, you had NO CLUE as to the circumstances yet you jumped right in condemning it. See how it is on the other side?

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