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mustang gt owned

This is a discussion on mustang gt owned within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Originally Posted by TrickStang37 just checking. and cans are tin, jugs are plastic.... Originally Posted by JwMonE99 Very well if ...

  1. #221
    Senior Member big hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrickStang37 View Post
    just checking.
    and cans are tin, jugs are plastic....


    Quote Originally Posted by JwMonE99 View Post
    Very well if you want to buy an ls1 and do a few mods to catch up to a STOCK cobra.
    You can also get an 03-04 cobra and spend a few hundred bucks in pullies and gain what 100 more hp? So you think the LS1 with a few mods can easily gain that much?
    yes yeah. one mod. a blower.

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    There's a reason for the term "hyperpathetic" when discussing pistons and blowers for cars that didn't come with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrickStang37 View Post
    03/04 cobras were $36,000.
    i guess what i read was an average which was like 39,000 and some change

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2-bowties&abird View Post
    chris, i really do enjoy these pissing matches we get into. i can always count on you being there when i make a comment about a mustang.

    i like how you try to twist my words around too, gas mileage to bells and whistles, and luxury sedan to economy car. i wouldnt call gas milage a bell or whistle, and i wouldnt call a luxury sedan an economy car.

    as for an '03 cobra being the same price range as an ls1 your way off base. an '03 cobra was about $40,000 new an ls1 was less than $30,000. average resale now on an '03 cobra is between $25,000-$33,000 as compared to an ls1 $12,000-$20,000.

    as for performance, yes the cobra performs a little better, but with some mods you can catch up to that quick with an ls1.

    oh, and BTW epa estimates for my car was 17-27.
    Yeah, lol this is honestly a good time. Hey, the point I made about similarity in pricing was between the LS1 corvette I own, and the cost of '03 Cobras. LS1s in excellent condition a year and a half ago were going for between 19k-30k depending on the year. '03-'04 Cobras were going for around $23k. I chose the vette despite the Cobra's improved performance.

    Oh and yeah, EPA estimate are not 15/25, they are 16/25. No change in point validity. I did refer to the new estimates not the old - my car is rated the same, which is how I knew.

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    Member 2-bowties&abird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Arnold View Post
    Yeah, lol this is honestly a good time. Hey, the point I made about similarity in pricing was between the LS1 corvette I own, and the cost of '03 Cobras. LS1s in excellent condition a year and a half ago were going for between 19k-30k depending on the year. '03-'04 Cobras were going for around $23k. I chose the vette despite the Cobra's improved performance.

    Oh and yeah, EPA estimate are not 15/25, they are 16/25. No change in point validity. I did refer to the new estimates not the old - my car is rated the same, which is how I knew.
    if an f-body was going for that much it must have had hardly any miles or a special edition. j/k
    i'll have to catch up with you when i go to sc. next month so we can debate mustangs and f-bodys in person.lol

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    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JwMonE99 View Post
    Very well if you want to buy an ls1 and do a few mods to catch up to a STOCK cobra.
    You can also get an 03-04 cobra and spend a few hundred bucks in pullies and gain what 100 more hp? So you think the LS1 with a few mods can easily gain that much?
    ummm.. beings you can grab a decent ls1 for about 10 grand.. and a decent 03 cobra for about 25 grand...... yea i think you could catch up........

    procharger @ 5psi.............................................. ........ 500rwhp.... hmmm id say thats catching up... o and thats EVERYTHING else BONE stock.... just a fun fact... that can be done for about 5 grand or so...

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    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    22mpg in city and 29mpg on the highway... lid slp LM 3.23...... A4... id say thats not too bad...

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    So you would do all that to brag about beating a stock cobra?

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    Dont forget to by a new rear end after getting the blower

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    procharger @ 5psi.............................................. ........ 500rwhp.... hmmm id say thats catching up... o and thats EVERYTHING else BONE stock.... just a fun fact... that can be done for about 5 grand or so...
    You're smoking rock! It can't be done.... that would break the laws of physics. Show me a single example of any otherwise bone-stock LS1 making 500 rwhp with only a procharger making only 5psi. Hint, if you find one, it's a farse.

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2-bowties&abird View Post
    if an f-body was going for that much it must have had hardly any miles or a special edition. j/k
    i'll have to catch up with you when i go to sc. next month so we can debate mustangs and f-bodys in person.lol
    As much as I enjoy shooting the shit with any fellow car entusiast as passionate about it as you are, I'm going to have to pass. I'm not in SC, or GA right now. I'm in Tikrit, Iraq If you can make it out this way, let me know. I'm with Task Force Ghost at COB Speicher.

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Arnold View Post
    You're smoking rock! It can't be done.... that would break the laws of physics. Show me a single example of any otherwise bone-stock LS1 making 500 rwhp with only a procharger making only 5psi. Hint, if you find one, it's a farse.

    Chris
    sorry chris i would have thought it cant be done either but here it is straight from prochargers homepage.

    For Immediate Release

    The new H.O. Intercooled ProCharger system for 1999-2001 LS1 F-body applications is now available, and produces an industry-leading 440-560 horsepower on stock motors running pump gas. Featuring the self-contained P-1SC-1 ProCharger and twin highflow intercooler system as standard equipment, this recently introduced ProCharger system produces the largest power gains available for the LS1 motor. A three-year supercharger warranty is also standard, and covers boost and power levels upt to 9 psi and 560 hp

    heres the site: http://www.procharger.com/ls1_press_release.shtml

  13. #233
    Member 2-bowties&abird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Arnold View Post
    As much as I enjoy shooting the shit with any fellow car entusiast as passionate about it as you are, I'm going to have to pass. I'm not in SC, or GA right now. I'm in Tikrit, Iraq If you can make it out this way, let me know. I'm with Task Force Ghost at COB Speicher.

    Chris
    hope all is well over there man, i guess i shouldn't give you such a hard time especially since your over there defending our country.

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    A couple of things....

    First, I'm a big fan of the LS1 (the engine). IMHO, the LSx series is the best mass-produced engine out there - bar none.

    Procharger does not use RWHP for their ratings. They used flywheel, and even that is going to be estimated from a chassis dyno in most cases.

    Looking at the page linked in the post above, it says "produces an industry-leading 440-560 horsepower on stock motors running pump gas". It then states that the 560 HP is on 9 psi. Given that this is flywheel HP, 560 will net no more than 500 RWHP, on 9 PSI, thus the top of their rating. How many psi do you think gives you the 440 HP?

    The point: With an completely bone stock motor (no nothing changed...not air filter, not exhaust, not the tune), you'll like go from ~300 RWHP on a completely bone stock motor to ~400 RWHP on a completely bone stock motor with 5 psi. Sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less.

    On a related note, the LS1 was never designed for boost (though it makes very good power on low boost numbers because of the excellent heads). It has relatively high compression, and cast, hypereutectic pistons and relatively weak rods. This isn't a problem for most N/A applications (even up over 400 RWHP), but when boost is added, it becomes much more iffy, and prone to failure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JwMonE99 View Post
    Very well if you want to buy an ls1 and do a few mods to catch up to a STOCK cobra.
    You can also get an 03-04 cobra and spend a few hundred bucks in pullies and gain what 100 more hp? So you think the LS1 with a few mods can easily gain that much?
    What is your place or purpose here? You tend to play from too many sides of the field at once, Chevy Boy! Catch up to a stock Cobra? What do you think it took for the 4-valve to catch up to the stock F-Bods? Nope, I won't even go there or i'll open up another can of worms along with too many excuses.

    As far as price comparisons between the two cars, forget about MSRP and consider only what these cars are worth today. 03/04's sell for a lot more simply because of the powertrain. The average termy out here in California will go anywhere from $17k-25k depending. It is not uncommon to see a '98 Z28 or Formula listed between $6400-$7000 around here. My brother purchased his '98 Z28 A4 Dec '07 for $6250 out of a listed price of $6500 (private owner) with 111k on it - basic cloth seats, p/w + locks, power seat, hardtop model, Pewter in color and in very good condition. Out wen't the stock block and in wen't a 6.0 block topped off with forged internals, heavily ported heads, Thunder Racing cam, and a DynoTune 300-shot wet system. Along with a built A4, reconditioned Ford 9"/3.90 gear setup the car made 714rwhp on FFP's dyno with an LS1 EDIT tune. He spent less than $17k including the cost of the car and a used SS hood/wing combo and a set of take-off ZR1 17x9.5"/17x11s. Now mind you he did most of the work himself, but this is just a solid idea of what kind of power you can make out of an LS1 for a decent sum.

  16. #236
    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Arnold View Post
    You're smoking rock! It can't be done.... that would break the laws of physics. Show me a single example of any otherwise bone-stock LS1 making 500 rwhp with only a procharger making only 5psi. Hint, if you find one, it's a farse.

    cant be done.. prochargers webpage.... lol

    Chris
    Quote Originally Posted by 2-bowties&abird View Post
    sorry chris i would have thought it cant be done either but here it is straight from prochargers homepage.

    For Immediate Release

    The new H.O. Intercooled ProCharger system for 1999-2001 LS1 F-body applications is now available, and produces an industry-leading 440-560 horsepower on stock motors running pump gas. Featuring the self-contained P-1SC-1 ProCharger and twin highflow intercooler system as standard equipment, this recently introduced ProCharger system produces the largest power gains available for the LS1 motor. A three-year supercharger warranty is also standard, and covers boost and power levels upt to 9 psi and 560 hp

    heres the site: http://www.procharger.com/ls1_press_release.shtml
    thank you for saving me the trouble..

    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    A couple of things....

    First, I'm a big fan of the LS1 (the engine). IMHO, the LSx series is the best mass-produced engine out there - bar none.

    Procharger does not use RWHP for their ratings. They used flywheel, and even that is going to be estimated from a chassis dyno in most cases.

    Looking at the page linked in the post above, it says "produces an industry-leading 440-560 horsepower on stock motors running pump gas". It then states that the 560 HP is on 9 psi. Given that this is flywheel HP, 560 will net no more than 500 RWHP, on 9 PSI, thus the top of their rating. How many psi do you think gives you the 440 HP?

    The point: With an completely bone stock motor (no nothing changed...not air filter, not exhaust, not the tune), you'll like go from ~300 RWHP on a completely bone stock motor to ~400 RWHP on a completely bone stock motor with 5 psi. Sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less.

    On a related note, the LS1 was never designed for boost (though it makes very good power on low boost numbers because of the excellent heads). It has relatively high compression, and cast, hypereutectic pistons and relatively weak rods. This isn't a problem for most N/A applications (even up over 400 RWHP), but when boost is added, it becomes much more iffy, and prone to failure.
    i promise you 5 psi is more than 400rwhp on a stock ls1.. i have a friend that did this.. doesnt matter if you believe me or not.. its true..

    Quote Originally Posted by N20LT4 View Post
    What is your place or purpose here? You tend to play from too many sides of the field at once, Chevy Boy! Catch up to a stock Cobra? What do you think it took for the 4-valve to catch up to the stock F-Bods? Nope, I won't even go there or i'll open up another can of worms along with too many excuses.

    As far as price comparisons between the two cars, forget about MSRP and consider only what these cars are worth today. 03/04's sell for a lot more simply because of the powertrain. The average termy out here in California will go anywhere from $17k-25k depending. It is not uncommon to see a '98 Z28 or Formula listed between $6400-$7000 around here. My brother purchased his '98 Z28 A4 Dec '07 for $6250 out of a listed price of $6500 (private owner) with 111k on it - basic cloth seats, p/w + locks, power seat, hardtop model, Pewter in color and in very good condition. Out wen't the stock block and in wen't a 6.0 block topped off with forged internals, heavily ported heads, Thunder Racing cam, and a DynoTune 300-shot wet system. Along with a built A4, reconditioned Ford 9"/3.90 gear setup the car made 714rwhp on FFP's dyno with an LS1 EDIT tune. He spent less than $17k including the cost of the car and a used SS hood/wing combo and a set of take-off ZR1 17x9.5"/17x11s. Now mind you he did most of the work himself, but this is just a solid idea of what kind of power you can make out of an LS1 for a decent sum.
    it took a supercharger to BARELY get past ls1s.. so a supercharger put onto the ls1.. yea that would do a little more than just catch up.. it would put the cobra on par with a maybe 99 or so gt. and the ls1, on par with an ls1..

    on second note.. i have a friend who bought a 98 TA for 7300.. forged the engine rear mount turboed H/C built rear and built trans.. this all added up to just under 20 grand... he dynoed 570 rwhp on 6 psi.. A4... i think that would be able to handle a cobra.... and... omg.. its cheeper.. lol





    i dont see how people think adding a supercharger at the same amount of boost as a cobra.. the ls1 isnt going to outrun it?? that is denying physics.. haha.. its common sense.. all you gotta do is think about it.

    also i paid 7 for my car.. and have spent just under 1,600 bucks for everything i got.. and im pretty positive i wouldnt have a problem destroying a stock cobra.. or a pullied cobra for that matter....

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    i promise you 5 psi is more than 400rwhp on a stock ls1.. i have a friend that did this.. doesnt matter if you believe me or not.. its true..
    Ok. How much is it? Your original post was....

    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    procharger @ 5psi.............................................. ........ 500rwhp
    "more than 400rwhp"....ok. How much? 500? 450? 401? Got any evidence to share with us?

    I have a friend that only made 395rwhp on 5 psi. You don't have to believe me.

    it took a supercharger to BARELY get past ls1s.. so a supercharger put onto the ls1.. yea that would do a little more than just catch up.. it would put the cobra on par with a maybe 99 or so gt. and the ls1, on par with an ls1..
    Uh, what?

    Anyway, its a silly arguement. One could also argue "it took GM 5.7Ls to out perform a 4.6". Silly arguement, but no less applicable than yours.

    on second note.. i have a friend who bought a 98 TA for 7300.. forged the engine rear mount turboed H/C built rear and built trans.. this all added up to just under 20 grand... he dynoed 570 rwhp on 6 psi.. A4... i think that would be able to handle a cobra.... and... omg.. its cheeper.. lol
    Wow. Proof positive that you can make an older car faster than a newer car for not a lot of money. Who'd of thunk it?

    i dont see how people think adding a supercharger at the same amount of boost as a cobra.. the ls1 isnt going to outrun it?? that is denying physics.. haha.. its common sense.. all you gotta do is think about it.
    Putting 15 lbs of boost through a stock block LS1 is going to make stock block LS1 go boom. However, pull the motor, buy forged pistons, forged crank, forged rods, get the machine work done, etc, etc, etc, and you can absolutely have a VERY powerful LS1. And when its all said and done, there's a good chance those extra cubes are going to win the day.

    On the other hand, start with a combination that already has all that stuff, and you might have the recipe for a pretty powerful, pretty fast car too.

    Speaking of common sense....do you know what that boost number (5 psi, 10 psi, 15 psi, etc) really means?

    also i paid 7 for my car.. and have spent just under 1,600 bucks for everything i got.. and im pretty positive i wouldnt have a problem destroying a stock cobra.. or a pullied cobra for that matter....
    Congratulations. I'm pretty sure you're pretty sure, too.

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    PS....a 5.7L F-body just BARELY gets by a 4.6L Mach 1. It took GM an extra 1.1Ls to do that.

    Blasphemy!

    And just as silly as the blower arguement above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    PS....a 5.7L F-body just BARELY gets by a 4.6L Mach 1. It took GM an extra 1.1Ls to do that.

    Blasphemy!

    And just as silly as the blower arguement above.
    4.6 Dual-cam. We all remember how pathetic their pushrod motor was

    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    Ok. How much is it? Your original post was....



    "more than 400rwhp"....ok. How much? 500? 450? 401? Got any evidence to share with us?

    I have a friend that only made 395rwhp on 5 psi. You don't have to believe me.
    5psi?? Not sure. I honestly have never ran across anyone that has boosted that low on an LS motor. However, my buddy Mike's '01 Formy made over 460 rear-wheel on8-psi with nothing but a Hooker Cat-back and tune (not even shorties, he he). http://www.forcefedperformance.com/c...ide.asp?key=21

    I'd be willing to bet you could get a little over 400-rear-wheel with 5-psi

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N20LT4 View Post
    4.6 Dual-cam. We all remember how pathetic their pushrod motor was

    5psi?? Not sure. I honestly have never ran across anyone that has boosted that low on an LS motor. However, my buddy Mike's '01 Formy made over 460 rear-wheel on8-psi with nothing but a Hooker Cat-back and tune (not even shorties, he he). http://www.forcefedperformance.com/c...ide.asp?key=21

    I'd be willing to bet you could get a little over 400-rear-wheel with 5-psi
    Bah. I've done the blown thing (88 5.0 Coupe - 460 RWHP on 8 PSI turbo w/ported stock heads, intake, exhaust - and a rather mild 545 RWHP KB 04 Cobra). They were nice, but I'm sticking with N/A from now on. Besides, iffin I was to talk up the LS1, it is more impressive in N/A form than blown anyway, IMHO.


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