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ls1 vs sti

This is a discussion on ls1 vs sti within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Originally Posted by 2005sti EDIT: read later posts That must have been a REALLY low reading dyno or he wasted ...

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by 2005sti View Post
    EDIT: read later posts

    That must have been a REALLY low reading dyno or he wasted a lot of money on the wrong parts, a shitty tune, and paying someone else to do work he should have done himself. With ANY turbo larger than the stocker you'll easily hit/exceed those numbers. I put down 316awhp/328wtq with a turboback and a protune only (a true reading dyno as well). 350rwhp 317ft lb are easily stock turbo numbers but come on, $8,500 in parts for numbers that could be hit with a $200 downpipe and a $300 protune.

    Call me a troll but I like to see what the other side has to say about my cars.
    Thats what I was thinking. Apparently that is the most power his block can "safely" handle.


    Ill plan on getting my ass smoked now haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    You aren't pulling the wool over anyone's eyes here.

    My friend has a '05 STI. It made 230WHP stock. Thats par for your average STI. He added a turboback and Cobb tune to it. The car was only marginally quicker. Definitely not anywhere near the 316WHP you claim. You don't gain 86WHP from an exhaust and tune.

    STi's don't hit 350WHP on a stock turbo, either. Once again, that 120WHP over stock. How the hell do you figure its going to make those numbers?? They don't, simple as that.

    With a big turbo and full upgrades, you'd be lucky to hit 400WHP with an STI. And at that point, the engine is not going to last long, because the internals are only good for about 400HP max. I've seen more Subarus with spun rods and blown pistons because some ricer though they could push huge boost and lean out their stock tune to make big power. Sorry, wrong.

    350whp is a bit high for the stock turbo with just 93 octane. 316whp with bolt ons and tuning is not out of the question. Infact alot of subarus and evos have seen 80whp gains from bolt ons and tuning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    I'm not being a hater, nor did I ever say you can drag race, drift or auto x a supra. But they arent the best of even close to the best option for any of the situations. There are 8 second 5.0s out there which only cost the owner 20k. They paid even less than you and are faster so what. Cars arent priced by 1/4mile times, the zr1 is still better than your car in almost every way.
    Correction...the ZR1 is better than his car in every way

    Supra looks like a googly eyed blob. ZR1 looks amazing.

    Like you said, its pointless to compare a 16 year old modified car to a brand new one in terms of cost. Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

    And for the record, single turbo Supras have damn near the worst powerband of any car ever invented. Talk about gutless down low, they are horrible. Complete opposite of the ZR1, which makes 350ft/lbs at idle. That would turn the 2JZ backwards and tear it apart.
    Last edited by Wesman; 09-15-2010 at 08:56 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    350whp is a bit high for the stock turbo with just 93 octane. 316whp with bolt ons and tuning is not out of the question. Infact alot of subarus and evos have seen 80whp gains from bolt ons and tuning.
    Keep in mind that tune includes a substantial increase in boost, which explains the high numbers.

    If you took an Evo or STI and added full bolt ons and tune without increasing boost (some people actually care about their engines, after all) you wouldn't see anything close to those numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Keep in mind that tune includes a substantial increase in boost, which explains the high numbers.

    If you took an Evo or STI and added full bolt ons and tune without increasing boost (some people actually care about their engines, after all) you wouldn't see anything close to those numbers.
    True but thats the point of a turbo car vs a N/A car. Boost

    My legacy just hit 88k been pushing 17.5 psi since 34kmiles. Stock was 11.5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Keep in mind that tune includes a substantial increase in boost, which explains the high numbers.

    If you took an Evo or STI and added full bolt ons and tune without increasing boost (some people actually care about their engines, after all) you wouldn't see anything close to those numbers.
    Yes, but forced induction engines were made to handle extra compression. Yeah you can't just throw huge amounts of boost but it is all relative to the amount of air you're stuffing in. A GT35r at 10 psi will flow hugely more air than my stock vf39 turbo at 21 psi. The stock STi turbo is pretty small, smaller than the EVO's.

    The stock bottom end on the STi is said to be good from 385whp to a little over 400whp. I'm not saying it's indestructible but some parts are capable of withstanding more force than what they rolled off the floor with. I'm sure the same could be said with the LS1 motor, the most reputable motor around. But hey, I'm not here to convince anyone just looking for a little understanding.

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    Whens this race set up for

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    whoa what what? stock suburu legacy running an 11.5 stock?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TmaxicanA View Post
    whoa what what? stock suburu legacy running an 11.5 stock?
    He was meaning 11.5 psi of boost pressure stock and now he's tuned to 17.5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2005sti View Post
    Yes, but forced induction engines were made to handle extra compression. Yeah you can't just throw huge amounts of boost but it is all relative to the amount of air you're stuffing in. A GT35r at 10 psi will flow hugely more air than my stock vf39 turbo at 21 psi. The stock STi turbo is pretty small, smaller than the EVO's.

    The stock bottom end on the STi is said to be good from 385whp to a little over 400whp. I'm not saying it's indestructible but some parts are capable of withstanding more force than what they rolled off the floor with. I'm sure the same could be said with the LS1 motor, the most reputable motor around. But hey, I'm not here to convince anyone just looking for a little understanding.
    How much can they handle exactly, my friend has an 06 and a bloush 20g turbo and supporting mods and putting down i think 405 and is planning on doing meth injection. I dont think he can handle too much more on stock block.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02sunsetorangeZ View Post
    How much can they handle exactly, my friend has an 06 and a bloush 20g turbo and supporting mods and putting down i think 405 and is planning on doing meth injection. I dont think he can handle too much more on stock block.
    Cant handle too much more but with meth it gives him a little room to play.I had friends with 400whp for years in there subarus with stock bottom end. But then there are some who have bottom end failures at that power level, its mostly due to tuning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2005sti View Post
    He was meaning 11.5 psi of boost pressure stock and now he's tuned to 17.5.
    Lol yes, legacys run 14.0 stock I think the best ime I have seen is a 13.78 bone stock. People have gone 12s with bolt ons trapping 105-107mph.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    Cant handle too much more but with meth it gives him a little room to play.I had friends with 400whp for years in there subarus with stock bottom end. But then there are some who have bottom end failures at that power level, its mostly due to tuning.
    I c i c, he has had problems before his turbo upgrade, cracked his head like twice. Then his turbo went out, thats why he upgraded. Dont see much of him now though all i know is he runs 25psi, i dont think he will hold up too much longer the way he drives it and how much boost he running, but again i dont know much about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02sunsetorangeZ View Post
    I c i c, he has had problems before his turbo upgrade, cracked his head like twice. Then his turbo went out, thats why he upgraded. Dont see much of him now though all i know is he runs 25psi, i dont think he will hold up too much longer the way he drives it and how much boost he running, but again i dont know much about them.
    I have never even heard of someone cracking there head on the 2.5 liter IRL, seen a post or two onlien about it but those were 600+hp monsters, it is def not common. And to do it twice is insane; maybe he cracked 1 head and then the other??? Turbos going out on the other hand is common for any turbo. They dont last forever and even less time when you boost them hard all the time. I just hope mine lasts to 100k.
    Last edited by Zinergy; 09-16-2010 at 10:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    I have never even heard of someone cracking there head on the 2.5 liter IRL, seen a post or two onlien about it but those were 600+hp monsters, it is def not common. And to do it twice is insane; maybe he cracked 1 head and then the other??? Turbos going out on the other hand is common for any turbo. They dont last forever and even less time when you boost them hard all the time. I just hope mine lasts to 100k.
    What brand are the turbos??

    If they are Mitsubishi crap then its no surprise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    What brand are the turbos??

    If they are Mitsubishi crap then its no surprise.
    They have used mitsu turbos but most of the newer American models use IHI VF series turbos. IHI stands for Ishikawajima Harima Heavy Industries. They make many many things other than turbos.

    I just meant that in general turbos dont last forever. They spin at a ridiculous rpm. They all burn out eventually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    They have used mitsu turbos but most of the newer American models use IHI VF series turbos. IHI stands for Ishikawajima Harima Heavy Industries. They make many many things other than turbos.

    I just meant that in general turbos dont last forever. They spin at a ridiculous rpm. They all burn out eventually.
    I've seen Diesels with 300,000 miles and original turbos. And they are spooling constantly, most spool right off idle. No issues at all.

    It all comes down to quality. With something like a Mitsu turbo you're getting a cheap turbo thats not built to last, just like everything else Mitsubishi makes. No idea what IHI's track record is though.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    I've seen Diesels with 300,000 miles and original turbos. And they are spooling constantly, most spool right off idle. No issues at all.

    It all comes down to quality. With something like a Mitsu turbo you're getting a cheap turbo thats not built to last, just like everything else Mitsubishi makes. No idea what IHI's track record is though.
    I've run a Holset HX35G with a Bullseye Power exhaust housing on my old 240SX. It was seeing 22psi of boost on my car for well over a year and 30psi of boost on the DSM owner's car I sold it to. After much abuse on both these cars it was still good, didn't leak oil, and had very little bearing play, (which was rather surprising given how little people know about these turbos as a cheap alternative to some of the big name performance brands) so I can vouch for this. I'm pretty sure mine came off some diesel Volvo utility-bus since it was the rare watercooled model.

    I have also had experience with a couple IHI turbos. I've never had a problem with these units either. They are used on a plethora of factory turbo imports today.

    Garrett turbos are hit and miss. Many of the ones used for factory automotive applications seem to have oil seal problems and bearing play after many miles, but this could be due to bad maintenance intervals. The performance Garrett turbos are much hardier, but can still fail if starved for oil or something goes amiss. I ran a GT35R on my car and never had a problem, but I've seen people have issues... although not common.

    BorgWarner turbos seem to be built very well. I don't have too much experience with these, but a know someone who had one on a Civic that trapped 160mph in the 1/4... so they do make power.

    Ebay turbos.... yes I tried them just to see. Surprisingly, some do make good power... for a month.

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    Senior Member big hammer's Avatar
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    i've ran turbos @ 30+ psi with over 1,000,000 miles on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2005sti View Post
    He was meaning 11.5 psi of boost pressure stock and now he's tuned to 17.5.
    now i feel like a tard.

    thank you for clearing that up for me lol.

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