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Kinda pathetic kill but a Mustang none the less....

This is a discussion on Kinda pathetic kill but a Mustang none the less.... within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Originally Posted by mogs01gt Dont know what BS stang forums you are at but they dont know what the hell ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogs01gt View Post
    Dont know what BS stang forums you are at but they dont know what the hell they are talking about.

    I forgot though, Im on ls1.com. Reality changes here and you guys thrive off your own ignorance. I guess this is what happens when all the intelligent people leave.

    ImpalaSSpeed96
    you'd loose that bet.
    Here is some education for ya, record all stock GT ran mid 13s back to back. Get off the internet man.
    what "stock GT" ? 05 + thats the only years man, sorry
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogs01gt View Post

    ImpalaSSpeed96
    you'd loose that bet.
    Here is some education for ya, record all stock GT ran mid 13s back to back. Get off the internet man.
    How do you loose a bet dude. Really, you mean like tyin up a wad of money w/ a string and then makin it looser? Cause I don't know how to loose a bet...

    I find it absolutely hilarious that you think a stock GT run's 13s at 100 mph. Absolutely hilarious. And you think its because you are on a LS1 forum that you are getting bitched out. Thats the reason.......

    Bob, I know you've seen this thread. Don't make me PM you!!! Chime in. Don't be a punanny!!! I've never seen a stock GT go below a 14.5 and there are more GT's at the track than anything else.
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    stock 99-04 gt = mid 14 sec car....end of story.....(a.k.a.) piece of shit!

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    You keep saying that we need to get off the net, im telling you i have raced all mustangs in my ls1 car and my old lt1car, so i do actually know what im talking about. They all suck, it makes no sense to mod one unless your gonna add 2 more valves per cylinder. Go hang yourself.

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    Well........ IBTL!!!

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    LOL. Ok. This shall be a matter-of-fact post. Honest injun.

    First and foremost....stock for stock, or mod for mod, a 99-04 4.6 2V Mustang is not a good match for an LS1. Most folks know this - even those that bought the Mustang (so long as they have reached puberty).

    Second....stock for stock, or mod for mod (to a point), a 99-04 4.6 2V Mustang is a good match for an LT1 F-body (even if it was a couple of years to late to go head-to-head as new cars). LT1 F-bodys typically run low 14s, with some in the high 13s, and a few perhaps hitting mid 13s under the right conditions, and with the right driver. 99-04 GTs typically run low-mid 14s, with a some in the high 13s, with good conditions and good drivers.

    IMO, the LT1 has a slight advantage, but that advantage is well within the difference that a decent driver could make up over a so-so driver.

    Note: This applies only to M5s. Fords AOD (and all versions of it) pretty much sucks for performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000T/A Guru View Post
    ...i race cars everyday...
    This is why insurance rates are so high for the 16-25 year old crowd.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000T/A Guru View Post
    I agree, when i ahd my lt1 with 2.73 gears and it was an a4 i used to take all of my buddies GTs, one was the 95 cobra r ....
    The 95 Cobra R was a 351W powered Mustang. It easily ran mid 13s right from the factory. While it is of course possible that an LT1 could beat one with a few mods, it is highly unlikely that your mostly-stock 2.73 geared A4 would have had much of a chance. Further, there were only 250 of them made. The chances that you have ever even seen one (never mind knowing what you are looking at) are remote.

    A regular 95 Cobra is a different story. Those cars were 245 HP 5.0s, and were a tick or two behind an LT1 F-body.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImpalaSSpeed96 View Post
    Bob, I know you've seen this thread. Don't make me PM you!!! Chime in. Don't be a punanny!!! I've never seen a stock GT go below a 14.5 and there are more GT's at the track than anything else.
    Well...you asked.



    I was actually at the track that day (11 Cobra's were there for a Magazine Shootout, covered in the March 2002 issue). I saw that car run. I saw the plastic still on the seats. It was quite legit. Additionally, if you really want to know what the cars run, go visit the Modular Forums at www.corral.net, Modulardepot.com, or Modularfords.com and do a search. As stated above, most were in the 14s, but a good driver at a good track in decent air could and did break into the 13s. Some at ~100 mph. Pretty much the same could be said of the LT1 F-body, though it typically had a bit higher mph.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    LOL. Ok. This shall be a matter-of-fact post. Honest injun.

    First and foremost....stock for stock, or mod for mod, a 99-04 4.6 2V Mustang is not a good match for an LS1. Most folks know this - even those that bought the Mustang (so long as they have reached puberty).

    Second....stock for stock, or mod for mod (to a point), a 99-04 4.6 2V Mustang is a good match for an LT1 F-body (even if it was a couple of years to late to go head-to-head as new cars). LT1 F-bodys typically run low 14s, with some in the high 13s, and a few perhaps hitting mid 13s under the right conditions, and with the right driver. 99-04 GTs typically run low-mid 14s, with a some in the high 13s, with good conditions and good drivers.

    IMO, the LT1 has a slight advantage, but that advantage is well within the difference that a decent driver could make up over a so-so driver.

    Note: This applies only to M5s. Fords AOD (and all versions of it) pretty much sucks for performance.



    This is why insurance rates are so high for the 16-25 year old crowd.



    The 95 Cobra R was a 351W powered Mustang. It easily ran mid 13s right from the factory. While it is of course possible that an LT1 could beat one with a few mods, it is highly unlikely that your mostly-stock 2.73 geared A4 would have had much of a chance. Further, there were only 250 of them made. The chances that you have ever even seen one (never mind knowing what you are looking at) are remote.

    A regular 95 Cobra is a different story. Those cars were 245 HP 5.0s, and were a tick or two behind an LT1 F-body.



    Well...you asked.

    Click for full size

    I was actually at the track that day (11 Cobra's were there for a Magazine Shootout, covered in the March 2002 issue). I saw that car run. I saw the plastic still on the seats. It was quite legit. Additionally, if you really want to know what the cars run, go visit the Modular Forums at www.corral.net, Modulardepot.com, or Modularfords.com and do a search. As stated above, most were in the 14s, but a good driver at a good track in decent air could and did break into the 13s. Some at ~100 mph. Pretty much the same could be said of the LT1 F-body, though it typically had a bit higher mph.
    a 99-04 gt breakin 13's is 10x more rare than a ls1 f-bod hittin 12's bone stock....and 95 cobra is an equal match to a third gen l98, honestly the l98 has an advantage

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    Ok. Even though I never mentioned ET comparisons between the 99-04 GT and the LS1, I'll bite. How many bone stock 12 second LS1s do you know of? Then compare that to 13 second bone stock GTs. Of course, you didn't even know they existed, so I have no clue how you could make such a statement, but I'm willing to believe it if you can provide the evidence.

    My comment about the 95 Cobra was primarily in reference to the 95 Cobra R that your buddy brought up. Like the above, I was not comparing the regular 95 Cobra to anything, other than a very dimunitive comparison to the LT1. However, if you'd like to go down that route (ie...94/95 Cobra vs L98 F-body), I will. Of course, the further we go back in time, the more difficult it is to provide evidence. Fortunately, I was racing (at the track) back with L98s were new, so I at least have a basis from which to form an opinion (other than the internet).

    Bob

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    dot,dot,dot......This just in from the news room....................

    OK, Im just chimming in here to be a smart alick....lol.....when I E-race, My car can outrun anything...., furthermore Im pretty sure my car can get in the 12ves.......lol.....back to your regularly scheduled programming
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    I believe its possible but as also stated before, I'm gonna have to go w/ a manual, beatin the hell out of it down the track, -1500 DA, and a tailwind. Based on my previous posts though Bob, you pretty much backed up everything I said. Thank you for the clarifications.

    I've personally never seen a stock F-bod in the 12s but I know its possible because I did watch a bone stock WS6, vert, A4 runnin 13.0s all night in pretty much 0 DA. Might have been a tad lower but it wasn't anything ridiculous. And I also took my buddies WS6 to a 12.99. DA was pretty good that day but it was also cold that the track prep was horrible. 2.2 60s all day w/ some 2.1s mixed in. That car only has programming and some muff's slapped in. Few other free mods like descreenin the maf and TB bypass. Past that though its a stock 98. Had we had some DR's on there I know that car could have mad a 12.5 pass that day. Trapping at 107-108 every time......

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    Ok, but you said it wasn't possible - that was incorrect. The air was good that day, but not -1500, and there wasn't any tailwind. Certainly the driver beat on the car HARD to get that ET. Then again, there's not much point in going down the 1/4 mile half ass, IMHO. If you're interested, here is a post about the article in question from the Corral: http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18186

    EDIT: I looked in my race log for the weather conditions that day. It was 18 Oct 2001, E-town. I had a DA of -519 ft logged.

    And once again, there are a handful other stock 99-04 GTs that have run in the high 13s. Search if you like - I provided the sites. If you do, be advised that 13s are not the norm (of course), and some folks say "bone stock except yada yada yada". You have to wade through those to find the truly stock ones.

    I have not, with my own eyes, seen a bone stock LS1 go 12s either - but I have absolutely no doubt it is possible and has been done.

    Finally, for those that might have reading problems, I'm not at all trying to compare a 4.6 2V to an LSx anything.

    Bob
    Last edited by BLKCLOUD; 06-23-2007 at 06:33 AM. Reason: Looked up DA

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    Bolt-On Pimp ImpalaSSpeed96's Avatar
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    That link you posted up wouldn't load up for me at first, now it did. Man, i find that so hard to believe...... You said you saw that car go a 13.7 Bob?

    I can't stand wading through internet times. I just go w/ what I've seen at the track.

    But regardless, the dude stated that GT's went 13s @ 100, which is like sayin Z28s go 12s @ 106.... They don't. I don't even know why this turned into such an issue anyway. My car is good for a 13.8 at this weather point. I said I put 7-10 cars on him.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    Ok. Even though I never mentioned ET comparisons between the 99-04 GT and the LS1, I'll bite. How many bone stock 12 second LS1s do you know of? Then compare that to 13 second bone stock GTs. Of course, you didn't even know they existed, so I have no clue how you could make such a statement, but I'm willing to believe it if you can provide the evidence.

    My comment about the 95 Cobra was primarily in reference to the 95 Cobra R that your buddy brought up. Like the above, I was not comparing the regular 95 Cobra to anything, other than a very dimunitive comparison to the LT1. However, if you'd like to go down that route (ie...94/95 Cobra vs L98 F-body), I will. Of course, the further we go back in time, the more difficult it is to provide evidence. Fortunately, I was racing (at the track) back with L98s were new, so I at least have a basis from which to form an opinion (other than the internet).

    Bob
    im not gonna lie, i have never personally seen a bone stock ls1 f-bod break 12sec...however from many respectable people i have heard in the past years have seen it, or have done it...also i have never seen a stock 99-04 gt break into 13's....but i think it is waaayyy more likely for a ls1 to break into 12's than it is for a gt to break 13's because i see many stock ls1's running low 13's at the track with low low 13 high 12 sec traps....i think the best in all reality a stock 99-04 gt can run is low 14's....the potential is not there

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    Bolt-On Pimp ImpalaSSpeed96's Avatar
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    I went and read through that forum topic you posted Bob. I have noticed the 99s seem to be the slowest out of the bunch. I'm quite surprised that that many people posted up that they have run 13s in stock mustangs. Especially on stock tires!!! I raced a kid in one last time I was at the track. Don't know what he had done to it but he ran a 14.0 at 104 only because of his horrible 2.4 60'..... Of course it wasn't stock though...... I see lots and lots of Stang's go mid 14s though. My personal experience w/ it is my buddies 01. He finally got it down to the track and the best he could muster was a 14.6, beatin on it. Wx was decent that night too. Thats amazing that all you have to do is add 410s and you drop close to .7..... From what it sounds like in that topic anyway. If I wanted to go fast i'd buy an A4, slap 410s in it, a 3400 stall and some stickies on it. Probably be sittin in a 12 second car cheap.... Can say the same thing for a LS1 though but probably a few more grand in mod money left over from what you'd save on the price tag compared to a LS1.....

    I'd like to see a new stang and a 04 tango.....

    BTW, i can't believe I forgot about this. i lost a bet a few years ago for ten bucks over this whole thing! Kid at work said they were good for a 13.7 and I told him he was nuts. He bet me and I told him I wanted to see it. I wonder if it was that article he brought in...... Assholes cost me 10 bucks

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    i saw a bone stock ss run a 12.99 at gateway last summer.

    but since we're e-racing it ran a 9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackz-lt1 View Post
    im not gonna lie, i have never personally seen a bone stock ls1 f-bod break 12sec...however from many respectable people i have heard in the past years have seen it, or have done it...
    Concur. And I can even do better than that. This is out of MM&FF back in 2001/2002...



    also i have never seen a stock 99-04 gt break into 13's....but i think it is waaayyy more likely for a ls1 to break into 12's than it is for a gt to break 13's because i see many stock ls1's running low 13's at the track with low low 13 high 12 sec traps....
    Ok - but that is purely opinion. Personally, based on what I have seen, read, and raced, I think a bone stock 13 sec GT is probably a bit MORE common than a 12 sec LS1. I am confident I could go out and find half a dozen examples of such (outside of the mags). I might be able to find the same number of bone stock 12 sec LS1s, but I'm not nearly as confident.

    BTW, I owned and raced a 99 T/A several years ago, so I have been part of this community for quite some time.

    i think the best in all reality a stock 99-04 gt can run is low 14's....the potential is not there
    Actually, you have it exactly opposite. It is much more common for the GT to run low 14s, but the potential is indeed there to run a 'best' of high 13s. The proof is here - I have shown it to you. Don't believe it if you don't wish to, but that doesn't mean it isn't reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by ImpalaSSpeed96 View Post
    I went and read through that forum topic you posted Bob. I have noticed the 99s seem to be the slowest out of the bunch. I'm quite surprised that that many people posted up that they have run 13s in stock mustangs. Especially on stock tires!!! I raced a kid in one last time I was at the track. Don't know what he had done to it but he ran a 14.0 at 104 only because of his horrible 2.4 60'..... Of course it wasn't stock though......
    That is where a lot of folks get squewed in their thinking (not referring to you). They see particular car A at particular track B with particular mods C running a particular ET. Thus, every similar car must run the same ET.

    I see lots and lots of Stang's go mid 14s though. My personal experience w/ it is my buddies 01. He finally got it down to the track and the best he could muster was a 14.6, beatin on it. Wx was decent that night too.
    Every track, driver, and day is different. Believe it or not, I've seen 03 Cobras run low 14s with my own beedy little eyes (Ohio NMRA race, May 2003).

    Thats amazing that all you have to do is add 410s and you drop close to .7..... From what it sounds like in that topic anyway. If I wanted to go fast i'd buy an A4, slap 410s in it, a 3400 stall and some stickies on it. Probably be sittin in a 12 second car cheap....
    Not with a Mustang. The A4s suck. Pure and simple. There are very, very few 4.6 A4s in the 12s w/o a power adder. There are quite a few M5 bolt-on cars in the 12s.

    Can say the same thing for a LS1 though but probably a few more grand in mod money left over from what you'd save on the price tag compared to a LS1.....
    Good thing about GM is they make a nice performance A4.

    I'd like to see a new stang and a 04 tango.....
    They have. Its often closer than the new Stang guys wish to admit, but the newer cars certainly have an advantage. They make ~50 more RWHP, and weigh ~100-150 lbs more.

    BTW, i can't believe I forgot about this. i lost a bet a few years ago for ten bucks over this whole thing! Kid at work said they were good for a 13.7 and I told him he was nuts. He bet me and I told him I wanted to see it. I wonder if it was that article he brought in...... Assholes cost me 10 bucks
    LOL. Could be. About the same time, 5.0 Mustang mag also ran a 13.7 with an 02 GT, but they pulled the airbox out, removed the swaybar, and removed the spare. The car that MM&FF tested had none of that done. I was there, I saw it, and I definately checked it out. It was legit.

    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    Concur. And I can even do better than that. This is out of MM&FF back in 2001/2002...

    Click for full size


    Ok - but that is purely opinion. Personally, based on what I have seen, read, and raced, I think a bone stock 13 sec GT is probably a bit MORE common than a 12 sec LS1. I am confident I could go out and find half a dozen examples of such (outside of the mags). I might be able to find the same number of bone stock 12 sec LS1s, but I'm not nearly as confident.

    BTW, I owned and raced a 99 T/A several years ago, so I have been part of this community for quite some time.


    Actually, you have it exactly opposite. It is much more common for the GT to run low 14s, but the potential is indeed there to run a 'best' of high 13s. The proof is here - I have shown it to you. Don't believe it if you don't wish to, but that doesn't mean it isn't reality.



    That is where a lot of folks get squewed in their thinking (not referring to you). They see particular car A at particular track B with particular mods C running a particular ET. Thus, every similar car must run the same ET.


    Every track, driver, and day is different. Believe it or not, I've seen 03 Cobras run low 14s with my own beedy little eyes (Ohio NMRA race, May 2003).


    Not with a Mustang. The A4s suck. Pure and simple. There are very, very few 4.6 A4s in the 12s w/o a power adder. There are quite a few M5 bolt-on cars in the 12s.


    Good thing about GM is they make a nice performance A4.


    They have. Its often closer than the new Stang guys wish to admit, but the newer cars certainly have an advantage. They make ~50 more RWHP, and weigh ~100-150 lbs more.



    LOL. Could be. About the same time, 5.0 Mustang mag also ran a 13.7 with an 02 GT, but they pulled the airbox out, removed the swaybar, and removed the spare. The car that MM&FF tested had none of that done. I was there, I saw it, and I definately checked it out. It was legit.

    Bob
    ehh i dunno man i give up,lol...i think we can all agree that a ls1 is a faaar superior engine..and the lt1 gives a 99-04 gt a run for its money in every aspect

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackz-lt1 View Post
    ehh i dunno man i give up,lol...i think we can all agree that a ls1 is a faaar superior engine..and the lt1 gives a 99-04 gt a run for its money in every aspect
    No need to give up. I concur with your statement.

    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackz-lt1 View Post
    ehh i dunno man i give up,lol...i think we can all agree that a ls1 is a faaar superior engine..and the lt1 gives a 99-04 gt a run for its money in every aspect
    When my Impala was near stock, basically....... I gave my buddy in his 99 a run for his money. I was behind so it wasn't a fair race but I actually believe I started to pull on him. M5....... My car at that point was a high 14 second car. Overall at the track I'm far heavier in the W column than the loss column w/ stangs which I think is pathetic really..... All w/ the Impala minus one.

    That mag must have the worlds best drivers is all I can say Bob........

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