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I have a few Questions about Terminators

This is a discussion on I have a few Questions about Terminators within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Originally Posted by IceeWS6 its a true svt... romeo block... idk who knows... What I meant was some people go ...

  1. #121
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceeWS6 View Post
    its a true svt... romeo block... idk who knows...
    What I meant was some people go turbo later (not factory) Someone must have removed the S/C for some reason
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    Fear The Reaper IceeWS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackSS01 View Post
    What I meant was some people go turbo later (not factory) Someone must have removed the S/C for some reason
    hell i could be wrong about the year man. he thinks its the best thing on the damn planet tho.
    he talked about for an hour one day. said it was the romeo block (mad in italy woopty doo) and forged factory. not a ford guy so i wouldnt kno and/or care

  3. #123
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Maybe an 01 (They never made 02 Cobras)

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackSS01 View Post
    Maybe an 01 (They never made 02 Cobras)
    could be. i'll ask him if i see him monday

  5. #125
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    If you really think you can build a well built ls6 with a good FI setup for under 6k than you are gonna have to steal half the parts. I have friends with boosted lsx cars making some good power(650-800whp) and they each have 15kish under the hood alone, one of the has 5k into tuning time alone now. And yes the work other than short block assembly was done in a garage by friends.
    Exactly right. If you really want to build an engine with forced induction in mind, it's a major undertaking.
    Even if you have an LS6 to start with, that's not saying much, you basically have to gut it anyway and start with a bare block. There is machine work to be done before a forged rotating assembly can be dropped in. At the very least a cylinder hone will be needed, hopefully no more than .005 to clean it up, because if the cylinders are still out of round, the block is done, start over.....I would align hone it as well for the new crank to square everything up and new cam bearings at the very least. Can't just throw a brand new rotating assembly in a high mileage block and hope it works,,,,,that's a little dicey if you ask me, but whatever....
    If you already had a camshaft swapped in the car, may as well kiss that goodbye and start over. Because a custom ground FI cam will be needed. That may or may not require some of the valve train to be changed as well. May as well get a nice set of heads while it's all torn down, would make no sense to stick stockers back on there after all this time and money.

    Even after you spend all the dough getting the motor right and all the other little things that ding you pretty good like fuel systems, tuning etc.....you still have to contend with a rearend that is going to take the abuse, and the T56 will need upgrades for any serious track abuse. The same goes for the auto.

    Once you get into a build like that, it's one thing after another. If you got it done for $15K I'd say you did it on the cheap.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 06-19-2010 at 01:40 PM.

  6. #126
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Exactly right. If you really want to build an engine with forced induction in mind, it's a major undertaking.
    Even if you have an LS6 to start with, that's not saying much, you basically have to gut it anyway and start with a bare block. There is machine work to be done before a forged rotating assembly can be dropped in. At the very least a cylinder hone will be needed, hopefully no more than .005 to clean it up, because if the cylinders are still out of round, the block is done, start over.....I would align hone it as well for the new crank to square everything up and new cam bearings at the very least. Can't just throw a brand new rotating assembly in a high mileage block and hope it works,,,,,that's a little dicey if you ask me, but whatever....
    If you already had a camshaft swapped in the car, may as well kiss that goodbye and start over. Because a custom ground FI cam will be needed. That may or may not require some of the valve train to be changed as well. May as well get a nice set of heads while it's all torn down, would make no sense to stick stockers back on there after all this time and money.

    Even after you spend all the dough getting the motor right and all the other little things that ding you pretty good like fuel systems, tuning etc.....you still have to contend with a rearend that is going to take the abuse, and the T56 will need upgrades for any serious track abuse. The same goes for the auto.

    Once you get into a build like that, it's one thing after another. If you got it done for $15K I'd say you did it on the cheap.
    Lol for the auto part...no beefing up for the stock tranny...that pos is getting thrown out...a 4l80e or a th400 would be my only options imho with a 600+ fi setup.


    I'm on the fence right now with my setup..if I want to start to build the 346 for fi or just go balls out na....until I buy a stroker....I am sure my stroker will be na..just don't know yet about my 346..as now is the time..with my stall next in line for purchase and such.......oh w/e...I'm going na....its cooler that way

  7. #127
    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    Quick 4.6 Cobra lesson....

    The block you're referring to that was made in Italy came in the early, N/A Cobras. It is aluminum with a forged Crank, but cast pistons are mediocre rods (fine for N/A power, not so much for a blower). Anyway....

    96-98 Cobras were N/A all-aluminum DOHC 4.6s and were rated at 305 HP. This was the second update to the 4.6 DOHC that had debuted in the Lincoln Mark VIII a few years earlier. Typically made ~255 RWHP. They had live rear axles.

    99/01 Cobras were N/A all-aluminum DOHC 4.6s and were rated at 320 HP. These engines had a bit better head and a different intake setup. The 99's were famous for a Performance Recall commonly known as "the fix", because many of the cars did not make the HP that they were supposed to. Post-recall 99's and all 01s typically made ~275 RWHP. They were the first Mustangs to get an IRS.

    There was no regular production 2000 or 2002 Cobra. Ford did produce a Cobra R in 2000 (only 300 were made) with a DOHC 5.4, iron block, aluminum heads. It was rated at 385 HP.

    03/04 Cobras are supercharted DOHC 4.6s, iron block, aluminum heads, forged crank AND pistons, good rods, etc. Ford's development name for this car was "Terminator", hence the nickname that you hear a lot of today. They were rated at 390 HP, and typically put down ~370 RWHP on a chassis dyno. The cars are very popular because simple bolt-ons net very big gains. Also, blower swaps to larger, more efficient blowers can yield easily 550 RWHP on pump gas, through the stock exhaust. They too had an IRS. Turbo swaps are not uncommon either, as you can get the same or more power on less boost, and the potential to make far more power than most blowers.

    Also in 03/04, Ford produced ~20k Mach 1s. There were all aluminum 4.6 DOHC cars with live axles, rated at 305 HP, and typically put down ~275 RWHP. Though not a Cobra, they were arguably the quickest mass-produced N/A Mustang until the arrival of the 2011 5.0.

    There you go.

  8. #128
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    Lol for the auto part...no beefing up for the stock tranny...that pos is getting thrown out...a 4l80e or a th400 would be my only options imho with a 600+ fi setup.


    I'm on the fence right now with my setup..if I want to start to build the 346 for fi or just go balls out na....until I buy a stroker....I am sure my stroker will be na..just don't know yet about my 346..as now is the time..with my stall next in line for purchase and such.......oh w/e...I'm going na....its cooler that way
    Ya I didn't feel like elaborating on the auto part,,,,I typed enough.

    I'm an N/A guy myself, although I've had a couple of turbo cars and I'll admit they are alot of fun.
    Anymore, I'm getting older, and tinkering with naturally aspirated stuff is all I care to do it seems. Just keeping things simple.

    You'll love that converter Shady, night and day for an LS1.

  9. #129
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Ran into a Cobra tonight on the way to work but traffic was too thick and had to get to work without getting into trouble. We both noticed each other tho

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    Quick 4.6 Cobra lesson....

    The block you're referring to that was made in Italy came in the early, N/A Cobras. It is aluminum with a forged Crank, but cast pistons are mediocre rods (fine for N/A power, not so much for a blower). Anyway....

    96-98 Cobras were N/A all-aluminum DOHC 4.6s and were rated at 305 HP. This was the second update to the 4.6 DOHC that had debuted in the Lincoln Mark VIII a few years earlier. Typically made ~255 RWHP. They had live rear axles.

    99/01 Cobras were N/A all-aluminum DOHC 4.6s and were rated at 320 HP. These engines had a bit better head and a different intake setup. The 99's were famous for a Performance Recall commonly known as "the fix", because many of the cars did not make the HP that they were supposed to. Post-recall 99's and all 01s typically made ~275 RWHP. They were the first Mustangs to get an IRS.

    There was no regular production 2000 or 2002 Cobra. Ford did produce a Cobra R in 2000 (only 300 were made) with a DOHC 5.4, iron block, aluminum heads. It was rated at 385 HP.

    03/04 Cobras are supercharted DOHC 4.6s, iron block, aluminum heads, forged crank AND pistons, good rods, etc. Ford's development name for this car was "Terminator", hence the nickname that you hear a lot of today. They were rated at 390 HP, and typically put down ~370 RWHP on a chassis dyno. The cars are very popular because simple bolt-ons net very big gains. Also, blower swaps to larger, more efficient blowers can yield easily 550 RWHP on pump gas, through the stock exhaust. They too had an IRS. Turbo swaps are not uncommon either, as you can get the same or more power on less boost, and the potential to make far more power than most blowers.

    Also in 03/04, Ford produced ~20k Mach 1s. There were all aluminum 4.6 DOHC cars with live axles, rated at 305 HP, and typically put down ~275 RWHP. Though not a Cobra, they were arguably the quickest mass-produced N/A Mustang until the arrival of the 2011 5.0.

    There you go.
    i was awaiting your arrival in this thread

  11. #131
    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    LOL. That wasn't my first post in this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post

    Once you get into a build like that, it's one thing after another. If you got it done for $15K I'd say you did it on the cheap.
    I said 15k under the hood, not in drivetrain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    LOL. That wasn't my first post in this thread.
    damn well still..i must have forgot about your other post/s in this thread..shit is 7 pages long

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    Lol for the auto part...no beefing up for the stock tranny...that pos is getting thrown out...a 4l80e or a th400 would be my only options imho with a 600+ fi setup.


    I'm on the fence right now with my setup..if I want to start to build the 346 for fi or just go balls out na....until I buy a stroker....I am sure my stroker will be na..just don't know yet about my 346..as now is the time..with my stall next in line for purchase and such.......oh w/e...I'm going na....its cooler that way
    Kinda in the same boat. Building the 346 with all forged internals just seems like a lot of coin to drop on a LS1 motor...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Kinda in the same boat. Building the 346 with all forged internals just seems like a lot of coin to drop on a LS1 motor...
    Sticking with the same stroke you wouldnt need a new crank. And 346ci is plenty to make a good power boosted engine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    Sticking with the same stroke you wouldnt need a new crank. And 346ci is plenty to make a good power boosted engine.
    A former member here just made 780 with his 346 turbo'd of course

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    Senior Member Transamws6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike0202 View Post
    So what does a full bolt on, heads/cammed termi dyno?


    Highest E/I/C/H LS1 I have seen was 488 I believe.
    From my understanding, swapping the heads on the 4V's in the 03-04 Cobra's won't really do much (I actually think the stock heads flow pretty well). And the same goes with swapping cams, say you go ahead and get a nice set of comp cams, yea, you'll get a badass sound, but you really won't be seeing any kind of huge gain from it, maybe only 15-25rwhp, it's a 281ci 4.6L modular motor. They really need boost to make any kind of power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    Sticking with the same stroke you wouldnt need a new crank. And 346ci is plenty to make a good power boosted engine.
    Oh I know...just contemplating on whether to spend the extra couple grand and go forged or slap on 8lbs and be happy stock and call it a day.

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    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transamws6 View Post
    From my understanding, swapping the heads on the 4V's in the 03-04 Cobra's won't really do much (I actually think the stock heads flow pretty well). And the same goes with swapping cams, say you go ahead and get a nice set of comp cams, yea, you'll get a badass sound, but you really won't be seeing any kind of huge gain from it, maybe only 15-25rwhp, it's a 281ci 4.6L modular motor. They really need boost to make any kind of power.
    You can get a reasonable amount of power from a cam swap (30-35 RWHP with a custom grind), but to make good power from a N/A 4.6, you have to spin the motor another 1k or so rpm. This isn't a problem at all for the motor - this issue becomes the transmission for those of us that really press our cars at the track. There simply isn't really a manual street tranny out there that is good for the street AND can be powershifted up near 8000 rpm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackSS01 View Post
    Got jumped all over like a spider monkey! First off, I totally respect the Cobra I am going to get one at some point but put that in my post at the end. Second, never lost to one "YET" Both were modded but neither was dug deep like a different S/C or anything that crazy so "NO" I haven't run into the right one yet Yes I'm going FI at some point along with entire carbon fiber body panels and other massive weight reduction without getting rid of the very few perks that I have (Leather, a/c, pw, pl, etc..) Last but not least, still don't agree with the Terminator label when they damn well knew F-Bodies were done. GM just didn't release that last minute. I remember when they first did release it so Ford can just on that aspect. Stock for Stock a Terminator isn't terminating a F-Body. Might beat one but not by much. That and I remember a lil 89 Turbo TA that was putting up better numbers then a 4th gen so........ When a 89 is beating a 03/04 and both FI with one being a V-6 and one being a V-8 then good luck with that. WHEW!! Hope I got them all

    Almost, but not quite. The '89 20th Anniversary Trans Am made approximately 280 rwhp. 4th Gens are typically around 300 rwhp, right? Even so, it's a driver's race between the two in my opinion. 20 rwhp is worth approximately 2 tenths in the quarter, or about two cars lengths, which is why I say it's a driver's race.

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