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harleys suck!

This is a discussion on harleys suck! within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; no kiddin...

  1. #21
    Senior Member whitelightnin99's Avatar
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    no kiddin

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitelightnin99 View Post
    i personally love the sound of harleys so to each his own. I do agree that its something that kind of grows on you the older you get. Ive had crotch rockets but the next bike i get will definitely be a Harley. To you guys that say they are all slow, guess you havent heard of the Destroyer Its 165 HP and runs mid 9's through the 1/4 mile straight off the showroom floor.

    Click for full size

    Yeah? So what? My '05 10r was 170 hp, ran 9's off the showroom floor, plus it turns on a dime and cost me 1/3rd what that hardley does. Many were actually dynoing over 160rwhp bone stock.
    http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ro..._zx_10r_ninja/

    I don't know what the other modern literbikes are doing, but I'd suppose it's pretty close.

    A zx-14 makes 197 horsepower, and costs a little over 10k.



    That hardley makes claimed 165hp at the crank, costs $30,000, just goes in a straight line, and oh, - it isn't even street legal.

    What kind of moron would buy one a specialized hardley track bike that can't even be driven on the street and still gets its ass handed to it by normal street bikes 1/3rd of the cost? Not to mention the other bikes would also rape it's ass in the corners and has better reliabilty record and can actually be driven home and get 40+mpg while doing it?

    See what I mean by completely inferior in every measureable way?

  4. #24
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    Plus... you know, $30k, you could buy a new kawi, stick one of these on
    http://muzzys.com/ZX10/ZX10_Turbo/index.html.
    plus some work to keep the front down, and be running 7's at over 200mph, if this is any indication.
    http://www.faliconcranks.com/suzbusa.htm
    And then ride it home.
    Plus you'd still have around 10k left over for a used f-bod, or a companion bike for a comfortable ride.

    But I should really lay off the Harleys now. We all like different things, I'm all about real performance and power, so I poke fun at Harleys like I poke fun at ricers with winged stickered 17second civics. I do think they look kind of cool for those who are into that kind of stuff. And the really well done heavily customized chippers are like art.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by REEDV View Post
    i own 2 harleys and an 02 ws6. best of both worlds . when i was 30 i didnt understand the harley life style .but now it is a good one at 38.one day you kids will understand . there is nothing better riding a harley wiyh a bad ass looking woman on the back ,heading to galveston or whereever makes you happy. most people on this site probably have bad credit or cant afford a harley so they ride a used 2000 dollar crotch rocket just to say they have a bike . i see them all the time 21 year old pimply kid , 17 year old gf, riding 110 down the freeway .no helmet you get my drift.owe bye the way it is an overpriced ,overrated , bike but only by the jealous who wish they could afford one.ive ha d 2 ninjas . major pieces of overrated shit .try to get warranty work done on one of those pieces of crap good luck to ya
    You know, I am 38 also. Have owned 2 GTP's, LS1 Formula, LS1 TA WS6, 2 05 GTO's, a honda and 2 Harleys. I am down to the 05 GTO and an 06 Vrod. On the outside it might initially appear as though we have a lot in common, but actually even I think your comments are a bit obnoxious, generalizing and narrow minded. Your ridiculous generalizations are the reason there is such a "rift" between riders. If someone loves to ride...what difference does it make what type of bike and what there reasons are? So they dont like Harleys. Big deal. Doesnt automatically mean they cannot afford one. And even if they cant...so what?! I couldnt afford one at 20 years old either! There is something to say about being able to buy a 350 lb. bike with 150 HP for under 12k!

    To the others, I have to say - not ALL harleys are slow, cantankerous pieces! Lol. My 06 nightrod has 120 HP factory. It is a heavy bike, although mine is about 35 lbs. lighter than a stock nightrod. My mods (CFR exhaust, Gils FI, K&N) probably have me around 130 HP (NOT at the wheel). I am having it dynod in a few weeks for a baseline before some MAJOR mods (looking at a V&H supercharger). I would bet some tuning as it sits could get me pretty close to 120 WHP.

    Anyways...to each his own. There are merits and cons to any style / manufacturer of bike. Peace!

    pic of mine: (and BTW - my bike did NOT cost 32K! Out the door loaded, my 06 vrod was $18k)
    Last edited by JoshuasGTO; 07-08-2006 at 10:39 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by shadegray View Post
    No, I wouldn't want one for free. It's underpowered, slow, uncomfortable, unreliable...even Harley lovers can't contend these points... it's junk. It's difficult to comprehend the level of crappiness when a product is literally inferior in every measureable way. Roll that around in your head for a bit. Completely inferior in every measureable way! It's almost an uncomprehendable level of crappiness. All Harley owners say is that ppl just wish they could afford one, they can't even stick up for the bikes on their own merit? Lol! Hey, I've got a pristine green 89 hyundai to sell you. It's $89,000. It's unreliable, pathetically weak, and the suspension is shot. But you can talk about the green hyundai lifestyle and when people tell you you're stupid for buying it, you can say they're just jealous and wish they could've afforded it haha. The official hardley mindset right there.


    Harley life style...bunch of old guys having mid-lifes who want to play badass. Harley is a fashion accessory, ridden by people too dumb to have bought a real bike. Sorry, but after you buy a Harley you're still the middle aged, out of shape dentist/accountant you were before you bought one. Yeah, even when you go to galveston slathered in your official harley temporary tattoos, fake beards, official hardley purses jackets lunchboxes wallets walkers and hemmroid creams to hang out with other posers. That's the harley lifestyle. And it's hysterical you talk about safety. Sportbikers come in gear with full face helmets. I'm sure your official hardley bandannas and half-helmets protect real well in a crash right? hahaha.
    Since I picked on REEDV for being generalizing and a bit narrow minded I guess I should raz you a little too!

    One could laugh at the "sport bike" lifestyle as much as the "harley lifestyle" WHEN/IF one generalizes! Shirtless teens, early twenty-somethings riding sport bikes they probably cannot afford insurance on (unless the parents they live with pays for it!)...j/k.

    As far as your description of Harleys - yep, spot on....for the older bikes. Not the newer ones. My bike is very comfortable (in fact, much more comfortable than the sport bikes I have ridden - hunched over hugging a tank!), plenty fast and plenty reliable.

    Although I am not QUITE (getting close though!) at mid-life, my crises was not, nor will it ever be solved by a bike (now when I turn 40 - then its Z06 time!). Lol. As far as dumb...nah - I'm actually a rocket-scientist. Really (B.S Astrophysics). I like my Harley, as much as I liked my metric (honda). My metric was a bit more reliable, but I also took about a 60% loss on it when I sold it only a few years after owning it. My first harley (an 04) netted me only about 10% loss of what I paid. Keep in mind that the Harleys of today are not nearly as unreliable as they used to be. This is one of the reasons the "old-schoolers" / "one-percenters" seem to have a bit more negative opinion of the modern Harleys.

    You are correct that most Harley owners today are NOT the stereotypical rebel without a cause type. They are Yuppies, professionals, gen-x'ers (as myself). And THEY are the reason HD is still in business!! Old-schoolers can bitch all they want - they didnt keep HD from going under...we did.

    Also - as far as gear. I probably wear as much gear (if not more) as you do on your sport bike (and I get razzed for it by helmetless harley riders ALL the time). I wear full face helmets, full leathers (NOT addorned with skulls and HD logos), boots, gloves, etc. BTW - around here, I see MANY (an overwhelming majority of) young crotch-rocket riders wearing nothing more than jeans and tennis shoes when they ride. It makes me literally cringe seeing them ride shirtless with a young rider on the back sans helmet. So Harley riders do NOT have the market on stupidity when it comes to safe riding!

    Finally - at 38 I would bet I am in at least as good a shape as you. I teach martial arts at my brothers karate school. I have studied for nearly 25 years and hold a 3rd degree black belt. I also weightlift 6 days a week and mountain bike (us old farts gotta do more to keep our girlish figures). Not ALL of us elderly folk are tubby and "out of shape" as you contend!

    Peace...
    Last edited by JoshuasGTO; 07-08-2006 at 10:54 AM.

  7. #27
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    Josh, you are cool headed and even-handed, which I find respectable. Yes, you are right that we are all riders and should just enjoy what we ride. I do feel a reluctant desire to continue on some of the points though.

    Sportbikes aren't a lifestyle, it's just a bike to us. Shirtless or uninsured people aren't approved of in any sportbike circles I know.

    The Vrod, is an anomaly. It is Harley's shining star of raw power. But it wasn't all Harley designed- it's an untraditional liquid cooled bike created with help from porsche. I understand it's being rejected by many Harley fans. And while it does rate at 117-120hp, that's still less power than the weakest sportbikes available, the 600ccers, with half the displacement. And just on equal or lesser footing with the much less expensive cruisers and tourers like Yamaha Vmax, Honda Goldwing, etc. Except for price, where it's still much more expensive. And when I was speaking of comfort, I didn't mean sportbikes, which are obviously not very comfortable. I mean the Goldwings and such, which are equally or more powerful and extremely comfortable, while less expensive to boot.
    For being more reliable today, I will give them a chance and wait before I say anything. They do resell better.
    Seeing some guy on a cruiser wearing a full face helmet does show some incredible dedication to safety, lol. I'd admit, I'd probably start laughing if I saw some guy with full race-style protection on a harley.

    Heh, and lastly, as far as your bet, I'd be willing to take it. You go back over my post history to confirm I'm not just pulling this out right now, or I can PM you my cert number to check on the NASM website, but I'm also currently a personal trainer and was a competitive powerlifter. But the physical shape of Harley owners isn't an important point of discussion, and this sort of thing is extremely stupid and lame to discuss on the internet.

  8. #28
    I appreciate your candidness, and you certainly are coming across a bit more "cool headed" and sensible now in comparison to your earlier posts!

    It may be different in your area, but in mine - there certainly is a "sportbike lifestyle". Hell - there are several local clubs (LARGE clubs) here that are devoted to sportbike stunt riding in the street (yes - city streets). They meet on a regular basis and I have seen many riders here without gear.

    I agree on all of your points about the Vrod, although there are plenty of cruisers out there with less power than it. I know - I researched most of them before purchasing. Even your examples are incorrect. A 2006 Goldwing has 118 HP from an 1832 CC motor, weighs 230 lbs. MORE than my bike and costs nearly $1500.00 more. Not sure how that equates to my bike being "equal to or on lesser footing with much less expensive cruisers". I wont accuse you of "pulling this out right now" concerning your fitness - I believe you. But your comparison to the Goldwing was obviously rushed and/or assumed. I WILL contend they are likely much more comfortable though! There likely are examples that would fit your comparison, but I am simply using the ones you listed. As far as the Vmax - BEAUTIFUL bike! I almost bought one and am still considering it! It has about the same torque as my vrod and is about the same weight (580 lbs). It is about 5k cheaper though! I checked a few other similar class cruisers as well. The Honda VTX1300 weighs about 20-30 lbs more and only has 75 HP. It is VERY cheap though - about 10k. The VTX1800 is a little closer - 106 HP, but 100 lbs. heavier - so again, no comparison other than price. BMW has the R1200 ST - nice bike also. 110 HP, about 90 lbs. lighter and maybe 2k less. I'm willing to bet I could find a few "sport" style bikes with less HP than the Vrod, although I am sure the HP/weight ratio would be higher. Ducatis Monsters, while not what I would call sport bikes, are somewhat of a comparison. The 620 is easily 200 lbs. lighter than my vrod, but is rated at 63 HP - half of mine - great price though - 8-9k.

    Trust me - I know how I might appear in full gear on my Harley, although I have to say - I have received more props from sportbike riders than Harley riders on the bike as well as my use of gear!

    I would agree about the silliness of discussing the fitness of Harely riders, although you were first to bring that up!

    Anyways - nice to have intelligent discussions on topics and once again, I appreciate your honesty and candor.

    Peace
    Last edited by JoshuasGTO; 07-08-2006 at 04:31 PM.

  9. #29
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    Which ones? The weakest of the current sportbikes are the cbr600's which bounce right at v-rod levels of power 120ish. I supppose if you want to count the micro-bikes at under 500ccs. We both seem to have miscategorized examples a bit, though my mistake was first. The goldwing's a tourer rather than a cruiser. But the Vmax is a cruiser and makes 20 more horsepower than the Vrod, while costing less. Monsters are naked bikes, not sportbikes.

    I feel like an ass discounting your bike though, so I'm going to knock it off. I do think the Vrod and buell is a step in the right direction for Harley. Maybe someday, we'll have a competitive American Sportbike. I did take a look at the vrod again... very good looking bike imo.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by shadegray View Post
    Which ones? The weakest of the current sportbikes are the cbr600's which bounce right at v-rod levels of power 120ish. I supppose if you want to count the micro-bikes at under 500ccs. We both seem to have miscategorized examples a bit, though my mistake was first. The goldwing's a tourer rather than a cruiser. But the Vmax is a cruiser and makes 20 more horsepower than the Vrod, while costing less. Monsters are naked bikes, not sportbikes.

    I feel like an ass discounting your bike though, so I'm going to knock it off. I do think the Vrod and buell is a step in the right direction for Harley. Maybe someday, we'll have a competitive American Sportbike. I did take a look at the vrod again... very good looking bike imo.
    No need at all to feel like an ass! You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and you did not come across like that at all. I agree about the monsters not being sport bikes (hence my description of them as "sport style").

    As for other bikes - I took this list from a forum (http://www.georgiasportbike.com/foru...d.php?p=514919) quote of a cycle world article on 2006 bikes: I am guessing those are dynod numbers, but even with a conservative drivetrain loss - every one would have comparable or less power than my vrod, although I have NO doubt every one is faster than mine with better power / weight ratio and every one is likely much cheaper! I am not nearly as familar with sportbikes as you likely are, but I am guessing the ones below fit into your description of one? If not, my apologies for my ignorance.

    BTW - I have the August edition of motorcyclist and it has the measured (dynod) HP for a 2002 Vrod at 109.3, which is still as much or more than any of the bikes listed below and my 06 has a higher factory HP rating (by 5 HP) than the 2002 vrod.

    I certainly dont mean to belabour the point and still agree with you that performance wise (1/4 mile, accel., et...) my bike cannot compete with those (nor with price). My general point is that no one (myself included) should make blanket generalizations or assumptions without the hard facts. This entire thread actually has me getting more interested in some of the bikes we discussed! I might have to make room in the garage for a second bike!!! lol

    specs from cycle world:

    2006 Honda CBR 600RR
    Dry Weight: 401 lbs
    Wheelbase: 54.6 in.
    Seat Height: 32.2 in.
    Fuel Mileage: 34.4 mpg
    0-60 mph: 3.0 sec.
    1/4-mile: 10.70 @ 128.55mph
    Horsepower: 101.53 bhp @ 13,640 rpm
    Torque: 43.10 ft.-lbs @ 10,930 rpm
    Top Speed: 156 mph

    2006 Suzuki GSX-R600
    Dry weight: 410 lbs
    Wheelbase: 55.1 in
    Seat height: 32.2 in
    Fuel mileage: 36.1 mpg
    0-60 mph: 3.1 secs
    1/4 mile: 10.75 @ 129.41 mph
    Horsepower: 106.09 @ 13,330 rpm
    Torque: 43.61 ft-lbs @ 11,140 rpm
    Top Speed: 157 mph

    2006 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R
    Dry weight: 399 lbs
    Wheelbase: 54.9 in
    Seat height: 32.2 in
    Fuel Mileage: 36.1 mpg
    0-60 mph: 3.0 secs
    1/4 mile: 10.58 sec. @ 132.36 mph
    Horsepower: 109.43 bhp @ 13,210 rpm
    Torque: 46.46 ft-lbs @ 11,540 rpm
    Top Speed: 160 mph

    2006 Triumph Daytona 675
    Dry Weight: 394 lbs
    Wheelbase: 54.9 in.
    Seat Height: 33.4 in.
    Fuel Mileage: 33.7 mpg
    0-60 mph: 3.2 sec.
    1/4-mile: 10.76 @ 129.31mph
    Horsepower: 106.99 bhp @ 12,500 rpm
    Torque: 47.49 ft.-lbs @ 9,900 rpm
    Top Speed: 155 mph

    2006 Yamaha YZF-R6
    Dry weight: 394 lbs
    Wheelbase: 54.8 in
    Seat height: 32.6 in
    Fuel mileage: 33.4 mpg
    0-60 mph: 3.0 secs
    1/4 mile: 10.67 @ 130.79 mph
    Horsepower: 109.40 bhp @ 14,420 rpm
    Torque: 42.65 ft-lbs @ 11,800 rpm
    Top Speed: 160 mph

    One final point - I have been comparing the MSRP of the example bikes to what I paid out the door for my nightrod (18k+). To be fair on a price comparison, I should have used the MSRP for my rod. The MSRP for the nightrod is $14,995 - $16,820 depending on paint/chrome options. This actually puts the price of the nightrod MUCH closer to the price of several of the bikes in question and SUBSTANTIALLY less than a few (Goldwing, etc..).
    Last edited by JoshuasGTO; 07-09-2006 at 11:37 AM.

  11. #31
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    Read through that link. After the 1st post, all the other posters are discussing how not just the horsepower numbers are off, but even the numbers for weights of the bikes are mixed up. And when the original poster mixes up brake horsepower with rear wheel horsepower, then can't show the links or anything to back up his claims, you know something's off.

    The fact remains that all of those bikes have equal or higher horsepower ratings than the Vrod and their top rwhp dynos surpass those of the Vrod top dynos. Although dynos aren't great for comparing bikes though. There's a lot of variation even with the same bike depending on things as location, temperature, and even just using a different dyno will give different readings on the same vehicle. But knowing that all those sportbikes have both higher official HP ratings and average higher pulls on dynos about as strong proof as you can get that they outmuscle the Vrod's engine with half or less the displacement.

    Here's links and dynos below.
    R6 is rated 133hp at the crank, dynoing around 110 with pump gas, 115 with mr9.
    http://www.r6.com/stats.html#techspec


    GSXR600 rates at 125 hp
    http://www.suzukicycles.org/GSX-R-se..._2004-on.shtml
    dyno is around 112 rwhp pump.


    zx-6r is at 136 hp
    http://www.motorbyte.com/mmm/pages/2005/76/review76.htm
    rwhp dyno


    cbr600rr


    Triumph 675 at 123bhp
    http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fi...h_daytona_675/

  12. #32
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    Sorry, those graphs and pics didn't post well at all. You can left click, find the url from properties menu and paste into your browser to view though.

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