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Foxbody vs. GTO LS2

This is a discussion on Foxbody vs. GTO LS2 within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Originally Posted by 2000T/A Guru I mean a 500hp 302 that doesnt have nos or forced induction is hard to ...

  1. #41
    LTX N20LT4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2000T/A Guru View Post
    I mean a 500hp 302 that doesnt have nos or forced induction is hard to achieve. 500rwhp on all motor 302 i dont think so. Ther good little motors to get forged internals and then boost.
    Maybe a 351, but not a 302.

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    Evr sena bdgr killa snak? Roastem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbb6811 View Post
    please no flaming but....

    IF(big if) was to own a ford it would be a fox body
    imo its the best looking mustang.

    ran one my self a few weeks back w/ h/c and he stayed w/ me
    from 50 til 100 and i pulled on him a car are so to around 130.
    it was a good run he stayed @ my door til 100
    I agree. Gimme the trunk model, no power anything, just 5-O and go! I would gut that sucker out and slap a 351 with aluminum heads, 3.73 gears and all kinds of goodies. trunk model fox

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    Quote Originally Posted by JwMonE99 View Post
    Yea but that turbo makes up the power for that 100lbs.
    No he has full weight plus AC hehe, with spare tire, jack and bunch of shit in the back
    NEVER, and I mean NEVER ride in a car with heavy metal objects in the back. In a head on collision a 5lb piece of metal will take your head clean off!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roastem View Post
    I agree. Gimme the trunk model, no power anything, just 5-O and go! I would gut that sucker out and slap a 351 with aluminum heads, 3.73 gears and all kinds of goodies. trunk model fox
    An LX Notch is the only Mustang i've ever liked - lookswise atleast. I like them with the stock hood/no wing, and production take-off wheels like '96-'97 Cobra's, or my favorite - Y2K Cobra R's in 18x12" rear. If I was to do one I would use the 351 R block topped with fully ported GT-40 upper & lower, none other than Canfield heads (2.02/1.60) and a custom-cam

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    You guys don't think that 500 rwhp out of an n/a 302 is even possible? I can show you a 347 that made 750 hp at the crank n/a... Why wouldn't a 302 be able to get 600?

    This isn't a streetable setup I'm talking about, but definitely a doable one. I don't know why you'd ever limit yourself to 302 cid when trying to get the max hp out of a block like that, but if you had to, you could.

    And if I had a fox, I'd take a 331 with a big turbo in an '87-'93 hatch model.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Arnold View Post
    You guys don't think that 500 rwhp out of an n/a 302 is even possible? I can show you a 347 that made 750 hp at the crank n/a... Why wouldn't a 302 be able to get 600?

    This isn't a streetable setup I'm talking about, but definitely a doable one. I don't know why you'd ever limit yourself to 302 cid when trying to get the max hp out of a block like that, but if you had to, you could.

    And if I had a fox, I'd take a 331 with a big turbo in an '87-'93 hatch model.....
    I'm calling B.S. - Straight up! Prove it.

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    I belive it, I seen a N/A 5.0 run 9s...
    I dont know how much it was pushing down but oh well

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    I belive it, I seen a N/A 5.0 run 9s...
    I dont know how much it was pushing down but oh well

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    Ok, well I already own one, so proving that last point is actually pretty easy....

    Here's the '87-'93 hatch:



    and here's the 331 I'm going to put a turbo on:



    I can't prove the fact that I'm using a "big" turbo, because "big" is relative and because I don't have any pics of my GT42R-76. But as you can see in the second pic, I tapped the canton oil pan for the drain back from the turbo. Unfortunately, it'd also be pretty difficult to prove that it's a 331, but here's a pic of the Sonny Bryant billet crank that should handle everything that the turbo should push:



    You might not know what you're looking at there, but that crank's got all the tricks. The rod is a billet I-beam from oliver with the bolts that are a step up from the ARP2000s. They can rev to pretty much anything my valvetrain could. The pistons are 8.5:1 customs from CP...

    Is there anything else that I can prove for you? BTW, that was a pretty ignorant, arrogant, and somewhat disrespectful demand... You might consider being a little more humble next time.

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roastem View Post
    NEVER, and I mean NEVER ride in a car with heavy metal objects in the back. In a head on collision a 5lb piece of metal will take your head clean off!
    I got a car seat in the back.....does this count?.......LOL

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    I don't think so.

    I had a buddy with a ragged out fox GT with exhaust only. He had a friggin small MVP jack, not to mention all kinds of head cleaving shit laying in the back. Unsecured.

    He would start speeding and doing dumb shit and I just wanted to get the fk out of that death trap! Not to mention it handled like crap due to age and old design.

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    doesn'tplaywellwithothers superchargedblackgto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roastem View Post
    I don't think so.

    I had a buddy with a ragged out fox GT with exhaust only. He had a friggin small MVP jack, not to mention all kinds of head cleaving shit laying in the back. Unsecured.

    He would start speeding and doing dumb shit and I just wanted to get the fk out of that death trap! Not to mention it handled like crap due to age and old design.
    Yea, I've heard stories about boxes and stuff hitting people in the back of the head killin' em....

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    That's exactly the point guys - I said 5.0. That fact is always skipped around for some reason. If I say, for example, stock 9-second 350, and somebody shows up with a 9-second 383, then it doesn't qualify. A 331 is NOT a 5.0!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Arnold View Post
    You guys don't think that 500 rwhp out of an n/a 302 is even possible? I can show you a 347 that made 750 hp at the crank n/a... Why wouldn't a 302 be able to get 600?
    I would like to see proof of an n/a 5.0 making 600 hp. More than that, I would like to see the specs required for a stock displacement 302 to produce 600 hp n/a. I certainly believe that it's possible, but I would think that it would also require ALOT of money, including a crazy wild cam, very high compression, and seriously worked induction system. It would also require additional, expensive high-rpm hardware to keep the motor together, as it would be necessary to spin it like a ricer engine to flow enough air in such a small motor to generate that kind of power. "Not streetable" is an understatement!
    Last edited by mrr23; 11-15-2007 at 06:38 PM. Reason: fixed quote

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    Do you think a NASCAR engine can be streetable? They make like 800 with 350 cubes AND a restrictor plate.

    I am sure those cats could squeeze 600 HP out of a 302 with no restrictor plate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roastem View Post
    Do you think a NASCAR engine can be streetable? They make like 800 with 350 cubes AND a restrictor plate.

    I am sure those cats could squeeze 600 HP out of a 302 with no restrictor plate.
    That depends on your interpretation of "streetable." I, personally, don't feel that ANY engine that cannot operate on straight 93 octane pump gas is streetable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by N20LT4 View Post
    That's exactly the point guys - I said 5.0. That fact is always skipped around for some reason. If I say, for example, stock 9-second 350, and somebody shows up with a 9-second 383, then it doesn't qualify. A 331 is NOT a 5.0!!!
    Uh... the 331 had nothing to do with that point.... I was just "proving" my last statement which was, "And if I had a fox, I'd take a 331 with a big turbo in an '87-'93 hatch model....."

    I feel that the point was proven, and on that issue, I was just being a smartass, anyway.

    As to your second issue, a 5.0 making 600 hp, I said that I thought it could be done, you don't think it can be. You're so closed-minded to it, that you actually have to see it to believe it. You can't use basic reasoning and deductive logic to realize the truth. You're the kind of guy that has to burn your hand on a stove before you know that you shouldn't touch it.

    I said I can show you a 347 that makes 750 hp. It turns out that it's actually a 357, but that doesn't change my point. That's about 2.1hp per cube. It is the same block, uses the same style of induction components that a 302 can, so why do you think a 302 can't make 2.1 hp/cid? If you can give me a justifiable reason why it can't, then I'll give you some credit. Otherwise, it just sounds to me like you've never been properly exposed. In fact, the geometry of a 302 rod:stroke, bore:stroke is to the 302's advantage in terms of revability and efficiency. If I thought you would/ could actually afford to pay me, I'd put my money where my mouth is, and build you a 600 hp 302ci n/a SBF. Short of that, I can't provide the hot stove for you at this point.

    600hp can be done from an n/a 302, like it or not. Here's the article for the 357 w/ 750 hp (and still climbing).

    And who the hell said that motor would be streetable. I believe that I said it wouldn't. That's not an understatement, it's a true statement.

    Here's the bottom line, he said it couldn't be done... He's wrong. Notice he didn't say anything about streetability, and neither did 2000T/A guru.

    Here's what it takes to make a SBF turn 2.1 hp/ci. If you can't read the article and then admit that a 302 will make 600hp with properly sized but similar components, you're dense.

    http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article117/A-P1.htm

    Chris

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    doesn'tplaywellwithothers superchargedblackgto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Arnold View Post
    Uh... the 331 had nothing to do with that point.... I was just "proving" my last statement which was, "And if I had a fox, I'd take a 331 with a big turbo in an '87-'93 hatch model....."

    I feel that the point was proven, and on that issue, I was just being a smartass, anyway.

    As to your second issue, a 5.0 making 600 hp, I said that I thought it could be done, you don't think it can be. You're so closed-minded to it, that you actually have to see it to believe it. You can't use basic reasoning and deductive logic to realize the truth. You're the kind of guy that has to burn your hand on a stove before you know that you shouldn't touch it.

    I said I can show you a 347 that makes 750 hp. It turns out that it's actually a 357, but that doesn't change my point. That's about 2.1hp per cube. It is the same block, uses the same style of induction components that a 302 can, so why do you think a 302 can't make 2.1 hp/cid? If you can give me a justifiable reason why it can't, then I'll give you some credit. Otherwise, it just sounds to me like you've never been properly exposed. In fact, the geometry of a 302 rod:stroke, bore:stroke is to the 302's advantage in terms of revability and efficiency. If I thought you would/ could actually afford to pay me, I'd put my money where my mouth is, and build you a 600 hp 302ci n/a SBF. Short of that, I can't provide the hot stove for you at this point.

    600hp can be done from an n/a 302, like it or not. Here's the article for the 357 w/ 750 hp (and still climbing).

    And who the hell said that motor would be streetable. I believe that I said it wouldn't. That's not an understatement, it's a true statement.

    Here's the bottom line, he said it couldn't be done... He's wrong. Notice he didn't say anything about streetability, and neither did 2000T/A guru.

    Here's what it takes to make a SBF turn 2.1 hp/ci. If you can't read the article and then admit that a 302 will make 600hp with properly sized but similar components, you're dense.

    http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article117/A-P1.htm

    Chris
    Can't We All just Get along?.......why does everything have to be a Flame-Fest?......BTW my Johnson is bigger than yours.... and I'm Smarter and Cooler on the Interwebz than U!!!!!..... 1 more thing to ADD, "I read it in B&W, and or I saw it on TV, SO IT MUST BE TRUE!!!!"
    Brad...
    Last edited by superchargedblackgto; 11-15-2007 at 12:00 PM.

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    That was an interesting article, but I somehow missed it in my magazine. I've been a MM & FF subscriber since my 5.0 days in the 90s. In the June '07 issue, there's an article about a stroked and blown Windsor that made 1,043 hp and 913.0 torque at 6,000 rpm.....on 93 octane, using off-the-shelf parts. Good stuff.

    I actually had a Keith Craft Racing Engines 331 a few years ago. I was going for maximum street power and durability at the time, with FI. R302 block, billet crank, Oliver rods, well-worked Brodix heads. It was built to run on 93 octane, and I spared no expense on it, and built it to the hilt as far as durability goes. Expensive engine, but a good one. I never got to drop it in the car, though. While my car was parked in front of my house, a drunk totalled it with his pickup.

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    So that motor has forced induction, a v8 with FI the sky is the limit, i have seen 3000hp turbo v8s.

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