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Baddest non LS1 car here?

This is a discussion on Baddest non LS1 car here? within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Originally Posted by 87LtdT Is a turbo a power adder when car comes stock with a turbo Bob i guess ...

  1. #201
    Member side2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87LtdT View Post
    Is a turbo a power adder when car comes stock with a turbo

    Bob
    i guess you could argue that replacing the stock turbo w/ a larger turbo would be a "power adder".

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by side2000 View Post
    i guess you could argue that replacing the stock turbo w/ a larger turbo would be a "power adder".
    Hard arguement, since these motors where built low compression from the factory to have a form of forced induction compliment the setup. The line is kind of thin here, since some motors that have a lot of potential come with some crappy fist sized turbocharger designed for daily driving (SR20DET for example), while others come with a more respectable setup from the factory (SRT-4, Cobalt SS, STI, EVO, etc.).

    I do agree however, that a "turbo upgrade" from the stock turbo can be considered the "power adder" for these cars.

  3. #203
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87LtdT View Post
    Is a turbo a power adder when car comes stock with a turbo

    Bob
    Um,,,,,,,,,,,yes.

    To me a power adder is a power adder is a power adder. Just like the buick motor's were built specifically to run a turbo,,,,you could specifically build any motor to run on nitrous with a custom ground camshaft for nitrous etc.....does that not make this a power adder either then???

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    Well a power adder is something added after the factory right?? Since no factory cars come with nitrous I'd say nitrous of any kind is always a power adder.

    Adding a larger turbo to a factory equipped turbo car is also a power adder of course (otherwise why do it)...just as adding a larger supercharger to a supercharged factory engine...but in my mind both are less of "adders" than nitrous...i.e. there is nothing "added" to the car...only modified what was already there.

    What about adding a larger factory location, or a front mount, intercooler to a factory intercooled car?? Is that a power adder??

    Bob

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    Well a power adder is something added after the factory right??
    Not at all. Power adder is just another way of saying "forced induction." Anything that brings oxygen into the cylinder other than naturally aspirated means = forced induction = power adder.

    Chris

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    Exactly Chris, any form of forced induction is a power adder whether factory or not.

    For Bob's argument since nitrous was never factory offered,,,,you could easily change my example to building any engine purposely to except a turbo,,,,does that make it any different??? Could it then be catagorized as just another engine???
    The idea was to seperate the power adders from the NA cars since there is an obvious advantage. If you watch any form of sanctioned drag racing they don't pair NA cars with power adder cars. They all have their own classes with certain rules.

    Common guys,,,I had a Typhoon so I've been on both sides of the fence here and I understand where you are coming from. But facts are facts.
    This wasn't meant to be a pissing match. Only meant to make this topic more interesting. So far the only other real fast cars worth mentioning I've seen in this thread are all power adder cars.
    Not taking anything away from that but there has to be other NA cars on here faster than 11.40??? Did I miss any??

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    No pissing match from my point of view...in fact it's been a learning experienced. I Googled "Power Adder" and learned, in general, it is Nitrous, or forced induction (turbo or supercharger). What it is legally in racing circuits might be different...and unique to each class/circuit.

    The point of my comments, not very well made, is it's not clear when a factory stock turbo or supercharged car is considered to be in a "power adder" class...whereas adding Nitrous is clear. I'm not a competitive racer only fool around against the clock on test and tune nights...with a "drive 50 miles to the track, run 10 second quarter, and drive home with cool cool AC" goal. The point is I really don't know the rules.

    Eg if my turbo Buick came stock with a 50mm diameter impeller does that by itself put me into a "Power adder" class?? Or would I move to that class if I changed to a 51mm impeller?? Or 10% larger impeller area, or some other point??

    Bob

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    The title of the thread didn't specify. In hind sight it probably should have read, "Baddest NA non LS1". It would be interesting to see some fast non LS1 NA cars on this thread. Did I over look any?

    BTW, NHRA thinks a non stock turbo is a power adder. At my local drag strip, they made me go out and by an approved fire jacket becuase my turbo wasn't stock. I was only running mid 12's.

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    there hasnt been a whole lot of NA cars in this thread.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutch1999 View Post
    there hasnt been a whole lot of NA cars in this thread.
    I think I was the only one. Probably why there are so many that got ruffled over the splitting of the two

    In all fairness though, I'm not knocking the power adder cars. They all run great, crank up the boost and away you go. I find them challenging to race,,,if I'm beat I'm not hurt, afterall I'm running just motor. If I win I'm pretty excited and feel like I've accomplished something. Lets face it,,,turbo and nitrous cars are tough to beat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I think I was the only one. Probably why there are so many that got ruffled over the splitting of the two

    In all fairness though, I'm not knocking the power adder cars. They all run great, crank up the boost and away you go. I find them challenging to race,,,if I'm beat I'm not hurt, afterall I'm running just motor. If I win I'm pretty excited and feel like I've accomplished something. Lets face it,,,turbo and nitrous cars are tough to beat.
    It was cheap way to go fast for me being as I bought my T for under $1000. However, it's a common misconception that a boosted car can be made faster by just turning up the boost. Just like an NA car, it takes alot of patience, time and money to make them faster. There's alot to learn with these cars especially old turbo cars like mine. It's been a long journey for me just to get to where I'm at now. Thank God for internet.

  12. #212
    Sarge for AAG Emperor hutch1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I think I was the only one. Probably why there are so many that got ruffled over the splitting of the two

    In all fairness though, I'm not knocking the power adder cars. They all run great, crank up the boost and away you go. I find them challenging to race,,,if I'm beat I'm not hurt, afterall I'm running just motor. If I win I'm pretty excited and feel like I've accomplished something. Lets face it,,,turbo and nitrous cars are tough to beat.
    yea you were pretty much the only one, unless you count lous. Im also suprised no ltx cars posted...

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    What redeagle said!! You can turn up the boost on turbo Buicks and get some modest zero cost gains....but to get any more out of it there are lots of supporting things that need to be improved/made capable. Probably true for all factory turbo's cars...except those with "fist sized" are probably not gonna get much improvements if boost increased.

    This has been an interesting thread...IMO anyway.

    Bob

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutch1999 View Post
    yea you were pretty much the only one, unless you count lous. Im also suprised no ltx cars posted...
    Ya you're right. Whats up with that??? No fast LT1's here????

    I can start by saying we did alot of exhaust testing on my buddies LT1.
    A built lingenfelter 355/6-speed that ran 11.60's at 119 mph on the motor only. It had alot more ET in it (the mph makes that obvious) but we never did push the 60 foot envelope much.
    Thats been 3 years ago or so. Don't really see many fast LT1's around anymore like you did 5 years ago.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87LtdT View Post
    What redeagle said!! You can turn up the boost on turbo Buicks and get some modest zero cost gains....but to get any more out of it there are lots of supporting things that need to be improved/made capable. Probably true for all factory turbo's cars...except those with "fist sized" are probably not gonna get much improvements if boost increased.

    This has been an interesting thread...IMO anyway.

    Bob
    Yep you're right. I didn't do much at all to the Typhoon but I had big plans. With only a catback it ran 13.52 at 99 mph. I wanted to up the boost and what not but all the other things you have to do started adding up fast. The computer tuning was the real hangup with me. There wasn't many choices on the market and I wanted to do that stuff myself.
    I believe a few more tweaks would have gotten 12's, not bad for a little Jimmy. But I lost interest. Someone made a stupid offer a couple years ago and I let it go.

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    Possibly faster than an LS1

    It's my first time posting pics, hope I did this right.
    Here's mine. Not all done but ATI's computer put it at 9.8 in the 1/4. I will try to post some pics. Let me know what you think. John
    Sorry, that's my winter Z.http://s734.photobucket.com/albums/ww341/badass355/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Ya you're right. Whats up with that??? No fast LT1's here????

    I can start by saying we did alot of exhaust testing on my buddies LT1.
    A built lingenfelter 355/6-speed that ran 11.60's at 119 mph on the motor only. It had alot more ET in it (the mph makes that obvious) but we never did push the 60 foot envelope much.
    Thats been 3 years ago or so. Don't really see many fast LT1's around anymore like you did 5 years ago.
    im just suprised cayenne97 and n20lt4 havent posted in here.

  18. #218
    Sarge for AAG Emperor hutch1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB454 View Post
    It's my first time posting pics, hope I did this right.
    Here's mine. Not all done but ATI's computer put it at 9.8 in the 1/4. I will try to post some pics. Let me know what you think. John
    Sorry, that's my winter Z.http://s734.photobucket.com/albums/ww341/badass355/
    looks good

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    my 240sx will be a high 9 sec car this season. Its a full street car also. full interior and all seats including factory rear seats still in the car. No weight mods.

    motor makes 620@ the wheels.

    last race season @ 360whp it cut 1.6 60's and ran 7.30's in the 1/8th which is good for a high 10 sec 1/4 pass.

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    "my 240sx will be a high 9 sec car this season. Its a full street car also. full interior and all seats including factory rear seats still in the car. No weight mods."

    That is my idea of cool...!! Bob K

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