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another civic story...

This is a discussion on another civic story... within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Originally Posted by pk222 I've never seen anything like that honestly. Its either stock civics that think their the shit ...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pk222 View Post
    I've never seen anything like that honestly. Its either stock civics that think their the shit or really heavily modded ones that actually are but didn't think that could be possible with just an engine swap and turbo. Might have to pick up a project car as a sleeper to go along with my own ignorance haha. Also I was thinking going to 7000 rpm or over that often wouldn't last very long, not just on hondas but anything

    Back to the op, Whats the outcome?
    you let me swap what i want to into a tiny ass car and put a turbo on it and 10's'll be the least of your worries. hell, just let me swap a big ironblock into my existing car and turbo it and i'll pull some wheelstands for ya

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    I personally drove a swapped Civic hatchback with a K20 swap (bolt-ons only with drag radials) to a 12.8@109mph. I did three 12s passes pretty easily that night.

    Careful, make sure your work mates car is on street tires and you run him from a dig. If not, it may very well play out like this:

    I've seen that +1000 times pi^*es me off everytime I see too..haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    I've seen that +1000 times pi^*es me off everytime I see too..haha

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    a fast civic is like a really funny racist joke... some people think it's awesome but if you find the wrong person you're likely in for a beating.

    if somebody took out my bird in a little civic he better be big or talk real soft lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    G35s weigh more than F-bodies in some cases. A little Civic econobox isn't going to have the luxuries that you get in a G35. A fully loaded '92-95 Civic hatchback weighs around 2100lbs. depending on model. You just can't beat that power to weight ratio. The only downside to these cars is the FWD setup.

    As far as being streetable, did I not post a bunch of videos above? Stay out of boost, and that car drives like a normal street car all day long. It has full interior, a sprung clutch, a nice stereo unit, and gets well over 30mpg with the 6 speed transmission.

    Also my friends N/A K24 CRX is very streetable. It also has a sprung clutch, and the cam isn't overly aggressive. This car is also full interior and has a nice stereo unit.

    Here's a video of my friend's 1.6L Honda running 10s, and the K24 CRX running low 11s:



    If you have any questions let me know.

    No sir no more questions. Although much further research is needed on my part. Thank you for the heads up one what to watch out for. I still prefer muscle to import any day but I do and always have given respect when deserved

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    Quote Originally Posted by richard head View Post
    a fast civic is like a really funny racist joke... some people think it's awesome but if you find the wrong person you're likely in for a beating.

    if somebody took out my bird in a little civic he better be big or talk real soft lol
    My favorite saying for civics was that having a 9 second civic is like running in the special olympics.. Even if you win your still retarded.

    No pun intended superluminal simply a joke

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by richard head View Post
    a fast civic is like a really funny racist joke... some people think it's awesome but if you find the wrong person you're likely in for a beating.

    if somebody took out my bird in a little civic he better be big or talk real soft lol
    Sounds like you have a fragile self esteem with some anger management issues. Seriously, if getting beat by a Civic gets your panties in a wad, you might want to see a counselor.

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    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pk222 View Post
    My favorite saying for civics was that having a 9 second civic is like running in the special olympics.. Even if you win your still retarded.

    No pun intended superluminal simply a joke
    I agree. If you want FWD, go ahead, it's just not my style. Won't ever see the front wheels come up with that drivetrain! There's nothing like the music of a V8 for me.

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    I don't get the whole import thing either. I used to own a 94 Integra with the B18 in it. I bought it from a kid that went to prison. He owed $1300 on it, I paid it off and drove it for 2 years. All the import kids around here just loved it, to me it was a nice daily driver but nothing more. I could see some potential though. With the IRS on it it handled great and got great mileage, but it mast certainly was not fast, but with a big enough hairdryer on it it could be. Not my thing though.

    I look at it like this, when a guy walks through a junk yard you see a lot of old cars you would love to buy to restore. At least I see that. In twenty years who is gonna walk through a junkyard and see a Civic and go "man those were the cars to have back in the day, I ought to buy it and restore it"? Highly unlikely I suspect. There are very few jap imports that are desirable as a collector car or a restomod car. If there were then wouldn't you see more of them at auctions? No matter how much money that you throw at a Civic or Eclipse or whatever, you still have a car that more than likely won't appreciate in value, but there is a flip side to it all. All of the guys that mod out the riceburners help keep the car hobby alive, and that's what's important to me.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by 97bluebird View Post
    I don't get the whole import thing either. I used to own a 94 Integra with the B18 in it. I bought it from a kid that went to prison. He owed $1300 on it, I paid it off and drove it for 2 years. All the import kids around here just loved it, to me it was a nice daily driver but nothing more. I could see some potential though. With the IRS on it it handled great and got great mileage, but it mast certainly was not fast, but with a big enough hairdryer on it it could be. Not my thing though.

    I look at it like this, when a guy walks through a junk yard you see a lot of old cars you would love to buy to restore. At least I see that. In twenty years who is gonna walk through a junkyard and see a Civic and go "man those were the cars to have back in the day, I ought to buy it and restore it"? Highly unlikely I suspect. There are very few jap imports that are desirable as a collector car or a restomod car. If there were then wouldn't you see more of them at auctions? No matter how much money that you throw at a Civic or Eclipse or whatever, you still have a car that more than likely won't appreciate in value, but there is a flip side to it all. All of the guys that mod out the riceburners help keep the car hobby alive, and that's what's important to me.
    Fair point. Most of the imports are designed solely as a means of cheap, economical transport. The reason many people decide to modify them is either A) They can't afford a performance car and or where given the car, B) The light curbweight and chassis characteristics are attractive to many forms of racing, C) There is more of a challenge getting a small displacement 4 or 6 cylinder to go fast, and usually there is some recognition for success in doing so since it's easy to get a large displacement 8 cylinder to go fast.

    To conclude, most econocars of recent years will have no appreciated value in the years to come, domestic or import. It's just the way it is. However, for import vehicles that are considered sports cars (i.e. NSX, S2000, GTR, newer RX7s, etc.) these will hold their value just fine.

    In the end, it's mostly personal preference. I personally like a light RWD import as a project car. Some of my friends like the challenge of a FWD vehicle. Yet, others enjoy a big domestic with a solid rear axle and a huge cubic inch engine. It doesn't matter to most people who modify imports whether people like you "get it" or not. We all use the same tools, the same sweat and effort to build our projects. If you are having fun in this hobby, that's all that matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    My friends car has a totally stock K20 in it running a GT35R turbo kit on 12-14psi. His best run to date is a 10.69@133. The valve cover has never been off the car. Only regular maintenance has been done. It's just has good supporting mods and tuning. This setup has been in his car for more than 2 years now. It has made around 60 track passes (that I've witnessed), and is driven all the time on the street.
    How do you honestly think that running 12-14PSI through a stock economy car Civic engine is smart?? Its on borrowed time. You're pushing the limits of that 2 bolt open deck block every time it sees boost. Its only a matter of time before it comes apart catastrophically.

    I don't understand the whole concept of trying to drag race a FWD economy car. For the amount of money you have into that thing you could have just built a real car. Staged CV axles alone are well over $1000. And when you're done, its not worth anything more than when you started, which is probably about $1500 for your average Civic.

    I love how ricers brag about these engines like they are some kind of miracle, the car is only fast because it doesn't weight anything. Put that engine in a real car instead of a gutted civic pile of shit, and its going nowhere, fast.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    How do you honestly think that running 12-14PSI through a stock economy car Civic engine is smart?? Its on borrowed time. You're pushing the limits of that 2 bolt open deck block every time it sees boost. Its only a matter of time before it comes apart catastrophically.
    I knew you'd show up eventually.

    It's been running 12-14psi for over 2 years now. It's run all the time at the track and the street. The compression is still excellent and the motor still runs strong. How much borrowed time do you think it has left? It is tuned correctly and shows no problems. I agree that open deck blocks aren't the strongest engines around, nor is the 2 bolt main design, however it's holding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    I don't understand the whole concept of trying to drag race a FWD economy car. For the amount of money you have into that thing you could have just built a real car. Staged CV axles alone are well over $1000. And when you're done, its not worth anything more than when you started, which is probably about $1500 for your average Civic.
    It's preference, nothing more. Building a "real car" is a matter of opinion and choice. Sure you can get a classic muscle car with a large cubic inch V8, and go fast for cheap. There is no replacement for displacement. However, that's the easy route, and some people like to do things differently. I'm not talking about the ricers. I'm talking about those who know how to build and drive a fast import.

    Also he is running stock axles with K20 inner/outer shafts on his setup. He has brought a spare at every track event just in case, and to date has not broken an axle even off the 2 step on slicks. Interestingly, while on this topic, my friend with the B16 turbo setup bought a set of $500 Driveshaft Shop Stage 3 drag racing axles that were designed to hold 500whp which were total waste of money. He completely broke both axles through the splines on his 2nd track even with them and sent them back for a refund. He is on stock Honda axles now, and to date has not broken an axle after learning to preload the clutch correctly before launching. He also brings spare axles, just in case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    I love how ricers brag about these engines like they are some kind of miracle, the car is only fast because it doesn't weight anything. Put that engine in a real car instead of a gutted civic pile of shit, and its going nowhere, fast.
    All ricers brag about how amazing an engine is. Those of us who know how to properly build a fast import know what it takes to go fast, and the ricers brag about us, which is a downside.

    Again, your opinion of a "real car" is your own. When these cars were being made in the early '90s, most economy cars where light and cheap. That's how they were built. They aren't built like that anymore and even the Civics of today are approaching 3000lbs. curb weight and close to $20k for base options. When you look back in contrast you can't really compare a new Civic today to a old '90s Civic. They are just better, but that's because the cars of today are bigger and more well equipped. To make these cars faster would take much more effort and money, and there lies the reason for modifying these older Civic "piles of shit" as you put it. It's cheaper and easier to go fast, end of story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    I knew you'd show up eventually.

    It's been running 12-14psi for over 2 years now. It's run all the time at the track and the street. The compression is still excellent and the motor still runs strong. How much borrowed time do you think it has left? It is tuned correctly and shows no problems. I agree that open deck blocks aren't the strongest engines around, nor is the 2 bolt main design, however it's holding.
    After seeing the results of some aftermarket turbo kits on Hondas and other "tuners", I think its safe to say that a high compression motor such as that is on nothing more than borrowed time. He should be thankful every time he hits boost and doesn't blow the engine. Its running an 11:1 compression ratio stock, that is in no way a good combination with 12-14PSI. You can't tell me you'd have confidence driving a car like that every day.


    It's preference, nothing more. Building a "real car" is a matter of opinion and choice. Sure you can get a classic muscle car with a large cubic inch V8, and go fast for cheap. There is no replacement for displacement. However, that's the easy route, and some people like to do things differently. I'm not talking about the ricers. I'm talking about those who know how to build and drive a fast import.
    Dropping a small block or big block Chevy in an old body on frame car is "the easy way out", and very un-original. I don't see anything "easy" about building a forced induction LS series and modifying a 4th gen F-body to match. There is much more to that than there is to building a tarted up Civic, and the difference is it will be fast, look good, and be reliable, unlike any Civic.

    Also he is running stock axles with K20 inner/outer shafts on his setup. He has brought a spare at every track event just in case, and to date has not broken an axle even off the 2 step on slicks.
    CV axles, especially stock ones, are not meant to take abuse like that. My friend's turbo Civic would go through axles each time he took it to the track, with just drag radials. He always had to have that piece of shit towed off the starting line because an axle would snap. They are meant for commuting in city traffic, not launching on slicks at the drag strip.

    Again, your opinion of a "real car" is your own. When these cars were being made in the early '90s, most economy cars where light and cheap. That's how they were built. They aren't built like that anymore and even the Civics of today are approaching 3000lbs. curb weight and close to $20k for base options. When you look back in contrast you can't really compare a new Civic today to a old '90s Civic. They are just better, but that's because the cars of today are bigger and more well equipped. To make these cars faster would take much more effort and money, and there lies the reason for modifying these older Civic "piles of shit" as you put it. It's cheaper and easier to go fast, end of story.
    My friend has more money invested in his "bubble" than I do in my bolt on LS1, yet he still can't even come close to matching my times. How is it cheaper when you have to upgrade damn near every part of the car, and it still ends up breaking anyway?? Some cars are meant to go fast, some aren't. The Honda Civic is in the latter group, and trying to make one fast is like pissing in the wind.
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    I'm no fan of 4-cyl vehicles but I say build them all! F&*K it. It will go or it will blow.. I'm a Chevy fan to the bone and will always own one even if the company is gone. BUT!, there are many imports I like and would love to own as well. But my wife is mean...

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pk222 View Post
    My favorite saying for civics was that having a 9 second civic is like running in the special olympics.. Even if you win your still retarded.

    No pun intended superluminal simply a joke
    I like this saying about hondas...

    Honda's are like Tampons every pussy has one..LOL now everyone don't get your paints in a knot.. Its just a joke.

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    I gotta agree with wesman. I mean I have complete respect for all the guys out there who build PROPER tuners. The truth is though they are few and far in between. And even fewer of those which are built well are streetable for DD. Every day I ride in my friends souped up 240 or integra I gain more of an appreciation for my car. I also don't agree at all with tuners being "more affordable."Both of my friends have dumped shit tons of money in their tuners just to get them in the same league-ish of my Z28. And even then in the end what they have created is a lightweight fun track car that in NO WAY IN HELL would any sane person drive on a daily basis or even the street for that matter. I mean shit every time I get out of them I feel like I had a rectal exam via baseball bat

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    After seeing the results of some aftermarket turbo kits on Hondas and other "tuners", I think its safe to say that a high compression motor such as that is on nothing more than borrowed time. He should be thankful every time he hits boost and doesn't blow the engine. Its running an 11:1 compression ratio stock, that is in no way a good combination with 12-14PSI. You can't tell me you'd have confidence driving a car like that every day.
    I can say that 60+ track passes, many races, and many times hitting boost is confidence enough. The secret to reliability is in the tuning. With the higher compression there is less room for mistake, but do it right and it can be reliable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Dropping a small block or big block Chevy in an old body on frame car is "the easy way out", and very un-original. I don't see anything "easy" about building a forced induction LS series and modifying a 4th gen F-body to match. There is much more to that than there is to building a tarted up Civic, and the difference is it will be fast, look good, and be reliable, unlike any Civic.
    What I'm saying is that once it's done, it's almost guaranteed to put out some serious power and go down the track with a respectable time. There are no guarantees for a 4 or 6 cylinder, therefore it's more of a challenge which attracts people. As far as the aesthetics are concerned, that is preference. I know for a fact that you think every import car is ugly and trash, so your opinion has no bearing on me. Everyone has their own opinion on the aesthetics of a car. Civics are not bad looking cars in my opinion. There are much much worse looking cars out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    CV axles, especially stock ones, are not meant to take abuse like that. My friend's turbo Civic would go through axles each time he took it to the track, with just drag radials. He always had to have that piece of shit towed off the starting line because an axle would snap. They are meant for commuting in city traffic, not launching on slicks at the drag strip.
    Everyone has different mileage on their axles. Maybe he should try preloading the clutch and give it some slip rather than dumping the clutch on drag radials. From our experience, we've been quite successful on the stock axles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    My friend has more money invested in his "bubble" than I do in my bolt on LS1, yet he still can't even come close to matching my times. How is it cheaper when you have to upgrade damn near every part of the car, and it still ends up breaking anyway?? Some cars are meant to go fast, some aren't. The Honda Civic is in the latter group, and trying to make one fast is like pissing in the wind.
    I am sorry to hear that. It looks like your friend doesn't know what he is doing just like a lot of people out there, or is running a small turbocharger. We had my friend's boosted K20 hatch bought, prepped, painted, swapped, turboed, and in the 10s for under $10k, of course most of the work was done ourselves. There is no way you're getting an LS1 Fbody turbocharged and into the 10s for under $10k including the price of the car. I've seen some all motor I/H/E/tune Honda street cars best times of bolt on LS1s let alone ones with a decent turbo kit. I've also seen built Hondas with a nice turbo setup that couldn't get out of the 13s. Still, I've also seen bolt ons LS1s that couldn't get out of the 13s. In the end, there are some people that just throw parts on and hope for the best, and some that know how to properly build and tune a car to it's true potential.

    I also want to add that I don't personally think any 4 cylinder is better than an LSX engine. You just can't beat the torque, power, and sound from the displacement of an LSX. But some recognition is deserved for those that can get a 4/6 cylinder down the track with a respectable time. That is a challenge and deserves some respect. That's all I'm saying.
    Last edited by Superluminal; 02-03-2010 at 09:21 PM.

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    You cannot compare prices on these pile of shit hondas with an LS1 fbody and say it's faster for cheaper. Look at it, there's a reason the cars cost $800, they're piles of shit like wesman said. Also you cannot think they are better looking than an fbody.. honestly? One of your videos which youve posted atleast 500 times shows a little turqoise jaloppy with 14" wheels, very attractive car....
    Last edited by 1986camarojoe; 02-03-2010 at 11:24 PM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by 1986camarojoe View Post
    You cannot compare prices on these pile of shit hondas with an LS1 fbody and say it's faster for cheaper. Look at it, there's a reason the cars cost $800, they're piles of shit like wesman said. Also you cannot think they are better looking than an fbody.. honestly? One of your videos which youve posted atleast 500 times shows a little turqoise jaloppy with 14" wheels, very attractive car....
    The difference in quality, many times, is due to the care of the car as well. Most Civics are used as econocars and during their life rack up hundred of thousands of miles. Most turn in to trash because of their owners. Most Fbodys tailor to to the performance crowd. So they are usually garaged and well taken care of. However, on occasion I have seen an LS1 Fbody with a lot of miles and it isn't pretty. Not to long ago I went to look at a 2000 Camaro Z28 because the price was so low ($4000) that I thought I could make money back by selling the car apart. I got there and all the plastic pieces in the car were falling apart. The door sill, literally pulled back in my hand when I grabbed the handle. The seats were ripped. The A/C was shot. It was on it's 2nd transmission (A4). The lifters were making noises up to 3000rpms. The paint was faded. The engine bay looked like it had been abandoned for 100 years. There was rust on the frame rails and all over the exhaust. Lots of rear end clunking. The car looked like a pile. Then I thought to myself, hey guess what, this guy probably used this car like an econocar and treated it like one would treat a Civic, and low and behold, the same effects and outcome have taken its toll on the car. Imagine that, and LS1 Fbody turd.

    That green Civic in the first video was just posted to show the performance of a bolt ons K series in a Civic hatch. The car is a turd. Also, I never said a Civic was a better looking car than an Fbody. I just said there are some nice ones out there. My friends have some very nice Civics. They have no body kits, no stupid lights, no fart tips, no ridiculous color schemes. They are stock chassis cars, with clean paint, and some nice wheels. That's it for cosmetics, and they run 10s. Sure they don't appeal to everyone, but they are not a mutlicolored turd you usually see on the road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    That green Civic in the first video was just posted to show the performance of a bolt ons K series in a Civic hatch. The car is a turd. Also, I never said a Civic was a better looking car than an Fbody. I just said there are some nice ones out there. My friends have some very nice Civics. They have no body kits, no stupid lights, no fart tips, no ridiculous color schemes. They are stock chassis cars, with clean paint, and some nice wheels. That's it for cosmetics, and they run 10s. Sure they don't appeal to everyone, but they are not a mutlicolored turd you usually see on the road.
    Here is a brand new, unmolested, zero mile Civic:



    Not surprisingly, it still looks like an ugly little pile of trash.

    Here is a brand new F-body:



    There is no such thing as a "nice Civic", its a pile of crap econo car that was never designed to look nice. And therefore, it simply can't. I love how ricers always call each other's cars "clean", because its a given that the car is an ugly turd, so when someone has one that isn't all beat to hell, they call it "clean"

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