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99-04 goes down again

This is a discussion on 99-04 goes down again within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Using purchase numbers for the model, Does that mean the Camaro is beter than the Charger? No it means that ...

  1. #121
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    Using purchase numbers for the model, Does that mean the Camaro is beter than the Charger? No it means that more peope purchased the Camaro than the Charger. Just as the purchase numbers of the Mustang versus the purchase numbers of the Camaro only means more people purchased the mustang. It does not mean the mustang is better. If you want to look at it a different way, more people sell their junk mustang than sell their prized camaro. Ooooo we could play with the statistics, and do a per capita comparison.... I hope you get the point. I really don't want to have to look up the numbers, but suffice to say, it would make mustangs look bad(statistics don't lie... Statisticians do). Numbers that indicate a majority opinion are only good to indicate the opinion of that majority.

  2. #122
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    LOL. Yup - 99Z1LE. What a trip.

  3. #123
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    Yeah, that sounds right! haha. I enjoyed the lugging the engine argument the most. He'd drive around at 30mph + in 6th gear

  4. #124
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    what an idiot! lol

  5. #125
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    I never said magazine articles were the final word, but they have their merits. If you look at those times, some were taken from actual GM sales ads( and we all know, GM doesn't lie...nor does Ford or any other maufacturer.).
    That website has taken the best times anyone posted from the stock vehicles and posted them on that website. If you read the whole page you could see that. Also if you research articles from magazines and other sources, you'll see that those times are pretty close to what alot of drivers are getting on the track. But....these are stock times. No drag radials, no tuning, no K&N air filters, no synthetic oil. COMPLETELY STOCK. I myself have taken my car to within 3/10ths of their times(although my car weighs about 150lbs more than theirs). Also if you look at some of the editors credentials, some have raced professionally. Also, they usually let a professional driver (guest editor) drive alot of the cars they test.

  6. #126
    Senior Member camarojunky74's Avatar
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    i mostly agree with your post above red roush one,

    except the fact that says gm or ford doesnt lie, well they due, they make there cars seem slower and have less power than they do for insurance reasons, they have been saand bagging cars since the 60's

  7. #127
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    wait whaat? i thought ou just saaid that your stang was faster, yet you put a greater sign for the ls1? or am i just crazy

  8. #128
    Senior Member camarojunky74's Avatar
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    no its not hard to understand but your post is quite confusing,

    did you think before typing?

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRoushOne View Post
    I never said magazine articles were the final word, but they have their merits. If you look at those times, some were taken from actual GM sales ads( and we all know, GM doesn't lie...nor does Ford or any other maufacturer.).
    That website has taken the best times anyone posted from the stock vehicles and posted them on that website. If you read the whole page you could see that. Also if you research articles from magazines and other sources, you'll see that those times are pretty close to what alot of drivers are getting on the track. But....these are stock times. No drag radials, no tuning, no K&N air filters, no synthetic oil. COMPLETELY STOCK. I myself have taken my car to within 3/10ths of their times(although my car weighs about 150lbs more than theirs). Also if you look at some of the editors credentials, some have raced professionally. Also, they usually let a professional driver (guest editor) drive alot of the cars they test.
    Please stop. You're not going to say anything about magazines or a vehicle's performance numbers that people who've been here for years haven't read hundreds of times.

    They grab those times from any magazine or publication that anyone provides to them. How can you speak for "their" driving ability when you don't even know who "they" are. The majority of the drivers for these magazines are jounalists. They take the car to the track one time and then post the results as if they are the car's capabilities. You don't know the track conditions (altitude, track prep, track temp, etc...) or weather conditions (temp, humidity, DA, wind direction etc...), or even the Car's conditions (weight, driver weight, accessories, optional tires, type of transmission, etc). All you see is the year make and model on your website.

    Enthusiasts take their cars to the track many times in differing conditions and it's not unusual to see the track times in the articles bested by a large margin. Magazines won't tell you that a Z06 can run 10.8 with nothing but drag radials, or that the 13.8 listed for an LS1 F-body was with a terrible driver behind the wheel. Isn't it amazing that enthusiasts are taking their own LS1 F-bodies into the 12s bone stock? How is that possible? It's not in a magazine. Journalists may not want to launch a car off of the line like he stole it, which is exactly what you have to do to get decent times out of high revving cars like the S2000.

    I get the feeling you haven't been around on message forums all that long based on your post count and based on the fact that you linked a website telling everyone that if they want to see the performance of any vehicles to look there. I'm just giving you a little friendly experience. Take it or don't, and either way I hope you enjoy yourself at LS1.com.

    Chris

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_b View Post
    how is it hard to understand?

    my mustang is faster than my ls1 camaro

    but the ls1 is a better motor.

    just because my 5.0ho makes more power at the moment doesn't make the engine "better"
    wow.... i did not say it was hard to understand i said the opposite, but thats neither here nor there,

    cool bro talk to you later

  11. #131
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    hey my buddys car at famoso in so cal which is at sea level ran a 12.8 w/ only lid and cat back on a 98 z with 140k miles, now with dr's hes a consistent 12.6,

    this car is freak, no explanation, only time slips to prove it,

    he putt in 4.10's and the car g teched at 12.4, well see what it is at the track for sure coming up here in a bit.

    but yeah this car is crazy fast. and a 6 speed car,
    for those who say this is impossible, i would say that too but i have seen it run numerous times,

  12. #132
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    Here we go again...I didn't say that magazine articles are "The Law". I said that they are a good indication of the capabilities of a car. I work at Dana and we build the Corvette frame and I see how that thing is built (Bowling Green(where they built every production Corvette in the world) is 50 miles from my house). They also have a great 1/4 mile track there and I've seen alot of Corvettes at that track. The last time I went, they had 8 Corvettes there (3 Z06's) and none of them could break into the 12's. Now...I know this car can do it and I know there are some lousy drivers out there and conditions between car tests can change. Also, cars vary a great deal off the assembly line. I see this every day. But some of the times posted on websites can be just lies and I would rather believe a magazine then to take someones word on a forum. Also... some of these people use the phrase "It's stock except for _______", You fill in the blank. If you use the words "except for....", it ain't stock. The correct term is "It is modified with _________". So people, what you believe in is up to you. But if I choose to believe in something different, then let me. If you can show me facts that the unmodified car can do better, GREAT!!! I'll believe it. But until then... the mags have it.

  13. #133
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    wow you saw c6zo6 or c5zo6, nontheless i wonder what was wrong with the cars or the track, a c5zo6 should break into the 12.8 mark for sure and a c6 well low 12's

    ive seen this in person so....
    but i agree for the most part magazines are a good starting point when judging cars, but far from the final word.
    as for the jounalists of magazines i have talked to one and he was an ex professional race car driver, and most of these cars tested are tested in auto and manual so its pretty hard to mess up driving when its an auto with asr.

  14. #134
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    Its true mags are a good starting point, but these test drivers may not be that good, def not as good as someone who has raced this car for years. I have magazines where they say the WS6 should run a 13.7 i run 1 second less than that with just a few bolt ons.

  15. #135
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    Finally I got my point across...lol
    I kept thinking that those Corvettes must have stopped at a McDonalds drive through while going down the strip. One did get a 12.9, finally. Most of them were running 13.3-6's. One ran a 14.8! I couldn't believe that those cars were ALL running that bad....although, here in Kentucky, we do have alot of days where the heat and the humidity are really bad. But when a friend of mine, in his 04 Cobra, turned his best 1/8 mile (while running the 1/4) I really began to wonder about the drivers. I kept running about 2/10ths off my usual times. So weather, the driver, track conditions, and that beautiful female standing near the starting line can effect your times.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRoushOne View Post
    Finally I got my point across...lol
    I kept thinking that those Corvettes must have stopped at a McDonalds drive through while going down the strip. One did get a 12.9, finally. Most of them were running 13.3-6's. One ran a 14.8! I couldn't believe that those cars were ALL running that bad....although, here in Kentucky, we do have alot of days where the heat and the humidity are really bad. But when a friend of mine, in his 04 Cobra, turned his best 1/8 mile (while running the 1/4) I really began to wonder about the drivers. I kept running about 2/10ths off my usual times. So weather, the driver, track conditions, and that beautiful female standing near the starting line can effect your times.
    Wow, that's funny, because i've honestly never seen a C5 Z06 run any slower than high 12's. I mean, honestly, how could one not be able to accomplish that? Those cars are so nimble and it doesn't take wizardry to get a decent launch out of one of them. C6's alike. On average I see M6 C6 coupes going 12.50's-12.60's at around 112-114 - I have yet to see one "slip" into the 13's. Those Corvette guys down there in Kentucky must be some horrible drivers.

  17. #137
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    i got to agree with that, my stock 99 ran a 13.6 so to hear a zo6 do that is pathetic

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRoushOne View Post
    Here we go again...I didn't say that magazine articles are "The Law". I said that they are a good indication of the capabilities of a car. I work at Dana and we build the Corvette frame and I see how that thing is built (Bowling Green(where they built every production Corvette in the world) is 50 miles from my house). They also have a great 1/4 mile track there and I've seen alot of Corvettes at that track. The last time I went, they had 8 Corvettes there (3 Z06's) and none of them could break into the 12's. Now...I know this car can do it and I know there are some lousy drivers out there and conditions between car tests can change. Also, cars vary a great deal off the assembly line. I see this every day. But some of the times posted on websites can be just lies and I would rather believe a magazine then to take someones word on a forum. Also... some of these people use the phrase "It's stock except for _______", You fill in the blank. If you use the words "except for....", it ain't stock. The correct term is "It is modified with _________". So people, what you believe in is up to you. But if I choose to believe in something different, then let me. If you can show me facts that the unmodified car can do better, GREAT!!! I'll believe it. But until then... the mags have it.
    Why choose to be ignorant? Go to the track and watch the cars run with your own eyes, or better yet run the cars yourself. Believe what you want to believe is right. I believe you're just another magazine racer without any real world experience. So keep racing your magazines, just don't bother the guys that actually run the cars.
    Last edited by Chris Arnold; 09-01-2007 at 01:05 AM.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRoushOne View Post
    As for performance you can go to the following webpage for "Factory Stock Vehicles".
    So..... don't bother going to the track or talking to the people that have personally witnessed what these factory cars can actually do. Just look in a magazine.

    BTW, my vette went 13.2 the first and only time it went to the track. Whad'ya say we make a small wager that I will get it into the 12s bone-stock? Of course, this would be a stupid bet for you, as you have no personal experience with my car. However, you can refer to all of the magazine times, though. I don't think you'll find a stock '97 C5 running 12s...

    Chris

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    I've been racing close to 33 years.....how about you?

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