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99-04 goes down again

This is a discussion on 99-04 goes down again within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Personally, I'm not a big fan of the GT500, damn thing is just too heavy. Ya, it makes big power, ...

  1. #101
    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    Personally, I'm not a big fan of the GT500, damn thing is just too heavy. Ya, it makes big power, but at almost 2 tons w/o driver, its just too porky. Of course, the dealer markups are insane, so that is just additional reason for me not to ever consider it.

    Always like the C5 Z06, and came damn close to buying a slightly used one instead of the brand new 04 Cobra that I bought in Sep 04 (and sold in Oct 05).

    C6 Z06 is awesome....and even though the ~$70k sticker is well justified for what the car is, I just can't part with that much money for a car.

    The killer B2300 (and a couple of 'toys') will just have to get me by for a while.

  2. #102
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    i aslo would love a z but could not afford the payment!

  3. #103
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    Bob,

    I agree, but I don't think that the '03-'04 Cobras are light by any stretch of the imagination, either. There is something more fun about driving a light tossable car.

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    no the 03 04 cobras arent light at all, the verts can go up to 3700. I have driven quite a few foxbodys aswell and they dont handle all that great, unless im assuming you have mods to help with that.

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    No stockers don't handle too well. I had mods, and a tricked out fox with griggs or MM suspension can be a force to be reckoned with on any road course.

    But I wasn't referring to foxes, anyway. I'm thinking of cars like the S2000, miatas, and even corvettes to some extent. I can't explain it, but corvettes to me feel lighter than they actually are.

  6. #106
    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    Fox body Mustangs handle great!

    in a straight line.....

  7. #107
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    I think everyone is missing the bottom line. The Ford Mustang outsold the T/A, Camaro, and the Corvette by a wide margine. Everyone tries to compare these cars and they all have their merits. But the bottom line is...more people prefer the Mustang over all the other makes combined. There fore when you say the Mustang is not as good as the T/A or the Camaro, more people tend to disagree. Nobody pays more money for a second rate car. Even the new Mustangs are alot better than the old ones and they perform better also. As for performance you can go to the following webpage for "Factory Stock Vehicles".

    http://www.albeedigital.com/supercou...0-60times.html

    These times are unbiased.

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    RedRoushOne,

    Magazine article and performance numbers have their place, but realize that magazine times often reflect the poor driving abilities of the jounalist that's doing the driving. Never mention to any self-respecting gear-head what his car can or cannot do based on a magazine time. You will instantly lose credibility.

    Noone is missing the bottom-line. Everyone knows that the Mustang was more marketable and outperformed its competition in the market place. The real bottom-line for car-enthusiasts and gear-heads like the guys you're going to run into on this forum is performance and modification. Few people give a rats-ass if chevy sells 5000 Camaros per year or 5 million. All the Camaro guys want is for the Camaro to be an awesome performance car. Likewise, the Mustang guys think it's cool Ford sells 4.5 billion V6s, but since they are driving limited edition Shelbys and Mustang GTs, what we care about is their performance.

  9. #109
    Rice Killa JwMonE99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRoushOne View Post
    I think everyone is missing the bottom line. The Ford Mustang outsold the T/A, Camaro, and the Corvette by a wide margine. Everyone tries to compare these cars and they all have their merits. But the bottom line is...more people prefer the Mustang over all the other makes combined. There fore when you say the Mustang is not as good as the T/A or the Camaro, more people tend to disagree. Nobody pays more money for a second rate car. Even the new Mustangs are alot better than the old ones and they perform better also. As for performance you can go to the following webpage for "Factory Stock Vehicles".

    http://www.albeedigital.com/supercou...0-60times.html

    These times are unbiased.
    LOL wow your good. And like the other guy said on the other thread, the mustangs outsold the lambos and ferarrais and the other exotics, so does that make the mustang a better car? They only sold more because it was cheaper, in the past they were cheaper so everone's parents like ford better becasue thats what they drove.

  10. #110
    no more 4th gen secondgearscratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JwMonE99 View Post
    LOL wow your good. And like the other guy said on the other thread, the mustangs outsold the lambos and ferarrais and the other exotics, so does that make the mustang a better car? They only sold more because it was cheaper, in the past they were cheaper so everone's parents like ford better becasue thats what they drove.
    ford also produces more vehicles in one model year than ferrari and lambo combined in probably the last 6 years.

    also, im quite sure mustangs were more widely produced than f bodies, though i have no evidence to back up that statement.

    i dont know how everyones parents like ford and drove ford, because gm and chevy sold around the same number of units "back in the day" from what ive read IN GENERAL. no proof as to what is the more "liked" brand and why, unless its between specific car models in the same class.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRoushOne View Post
    I think everyone is missing the bottom line. The Ford Mustang outsold the T/A, Camaro, and the Corvette by a wide margine. Everyone tries to compare these cars and they all have their merits. But the bottom line is...more people prefer the Mustang over all the other makes combined. There fore when you say the Mustang is not as good as the T/A or the Camaro, more people tend to disagree. Nobody pays more money for a second rate car. Even the new Mustangs are alot better than the old ones and they perform better also. As for performance you can go to the following webpage for "Factory Stock Vehicles".

    http://www.albeedigital.com/supercou...0-60times.html

    These times are unbiased.
    im assuming that
    A. ford produces more mustangs than chevy did f bodies
    B. most people in the market went for the less expensive car, and since all the buyers werent young kids or early to mid 20s, its understandable that the smaller v8 and less expensive cruiser would sell in higher volumes, as not all care solely about power.

    as far as second rate...their are slim differences in the build quality between the two pony cars. most of it has to do with personal preference, but it seems to me that the older crowd would prefer a taller car, and one you can sit up in, not slide down into like an f body. to most, 240 hp is fine as a dd, and i can see the mustang being easier to live with, as evidence of what i see and the age group that typically owns either the gt or the f body (in my community).

    the ls1 is a much better powerplant than the 2v, and at the same time, the drivetrain for the gts is clearly more solid (you cant even launch an f body on dr's without killing SOMETHING).

    the pony cars were never really expected to sell hugely, and it seems ford made a smart move in hindsight by paying attention to comfort and ride rather than raw power such as an ls1 euipped f body. i think the mustang handles alot better and feels smoother, but driving an f body is like using a fine tuned machine built for one purpose....torque. lots of it.

    tit for tat, they are of very similar quality outside and in.

    i grossly prefer an f body to anything else. just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JwMonE99 View Post
    And like the other guy said on the other thread, the mustangs outsold the lambos and ferarrais and the other exotics, so does that make the mustang a better car?
    and it was just as stupid when he said it. You can compare mustangs to F-bodys because they were in the same class. Comparing Mustangs to lambos is ridiculous.

    If you compare lambos and ferraris in the same class and one outsells the other, then yes.... that would be a good argument for why one car is "better" than another. I never used those words in the first place, though. "Better" is a matter of opinion, and opinions are like assholes.

    Chris

  13. #113
    Every day is a gift-enjoy preston1980's Avatar
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    I have to agree with the idea of both Mustangs and F-bods have there strengths and weakness. But who ever says that people should not compare the two is dreaming. These two Cars (Camaro/Mustang) have been compared for 40 years and they always will be. All I know is that I like variety, I like both cars. Some people like Blondes, some red heads, but I say they are all fun in differant ways. I might even through in a brunette here and there.

    I do agree with the whole Mustang roots idea, They do seem to have more history in there following. And the Mustang did get a 3 year jump on the Maro (not to mention the last five years have been Camaroless). And there is that song, Mustang Sally. Well At least the Trans Am has the show night Rider.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Arnold View Post
    RedRoushOne,

    Magazine article and performance numbers have their place, but realize that magazine times often reflect the poor driving abilities of the jounalist that's doing the driving. Never mention to any self-respecting gear-head what his car can or cannot do based on a magazine time. You will instantly lose credibility.

    Noone is missing the bottom-line. Everyone knows that the Mustang was more marketable and outperformed its competition in the market place. The real bottom-line for car-enthusiasts and gear-heads like the guys you're going to run into on this forum is performance and modification. Few people give a rats-ass if chevy sells 5000 Camaros per year or 5 million. All the Camaro guys want is for the Camaro to be an awesome performance car. Likewise, the Mustang guys think it's cool Ford sells 4.5 billion V6s, but since they are driving limited edition Shelbys and Mustang GTs, what we care about is their performance.

    Who among us gets paid to test these cars year in and year out on a daily basis? How many of us have driven F1 cars in competition? How many of us have driven the exotics like they have? How many of us have actually been in a race on a road course through out a season? These guys are not just journalist, they are drivers first. If they couldn't drive, they would be out of a job. As for performance, how many 6 cylinder cars (from both camps, GM and Ford) were sold as compared to the fire breathing 8 cylinder cars? I agree that to us gear heads that performance is a great selling point, but we are outnumbered by a few zillion people who (unlike us) would rather enjoy the comfort of an SUV or the gas milage of the practical econo boxes. The old gear heads (who grew up in the Horsepower wars of the late 60's and early 70's) are a dying breed. Case in point...How many of you designed and built your own intake manifolds? We have two members in our club (we have +75 cars)that have done so. If you would like to see these cars (one Thunderbird and one Mustang) go to Wildhorsesclub.com to the Tennessee Chapter (posts by billfisher and 393Bird). You go out and buy a supercharger (or turbo or nitrous) put it on the car, then get a handheld programmer and tune the vehicle. Again, don't get me wrong, these computers and these new engines are great! I sure wish we had them back then. But we have bowed our heads to the EPA and CAFE standards (which we are governed by). Who would have thought back then that a 4 cylinder car in factory stock street trim could turn low 13's or 12's or even 11's? If you look at our Mustangs and F-bodies, the respective camps went in different directions. Ford went with a more civilized car (with a smaller engine) while GM went for brute force (with a bigger engine). If you don't believe this, take a test drive in the two vehicles. F-bodies have massive acceleration but will beat you to death on long trips. The Mustang is (while still a harsh ride)more tuned to the road. Go around a bumpy turn and both cars want to skip to the outside. The new Mustangs are better at long trips than the F-bodies. But for the most part, even they are different cars. We can argue these points til we are blue in the face, but we will never see a big engine (+450 ci) in these cars (unless it's a transplant). So, everyone, enjoy these cars and if you win a race, congrates. If you lose one, congradulate the other guy. Don't make excuses. Just strive to be better each time.

  15. #115
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    They are not drivers first. They're just dudes whose job it is to write a story that sells. Very few journalists also have the gift of being able to wring the best performance out of any given vehicle (i.e. Evan Smith - an NMRA champ). Which is why when you look in Motor Trend, Car and Driver etc... you find that LS1 F-body performance in the 1/4 is usually around a 13.5. With him behind the wheel, it ran a 12.9. F1 cars? Get real. You may be thinking of one or two that have driven them competitively AND write for a major publication, but that's extremely rare.

    I'm just trying to help you out, man. Keep quoting mag times, and everyone will have you pegged as a newb.

    Oh, and please post a picture of an intake that was "designed and built" by anyone from the ground up.

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    You know, there was actually a forum created especially for a member here who used to constantly defend his arguments using magazine articles and performance data. Do you remember his name, Bob? I remember that you and I, when my screen name was FastDriver, used to argue with him constantly.

    Chris

  17. #117
    Senior Member BLKCLOUD's Avatar
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    LOL. His name was actually "Bob", and he posted in the old Forum, prior to the LS1.com meltdown. He was a civilian contractor/engineer working for the USN up in the NE somewhere. He eventually got banned. For the life of me though, I can't remember his screen name. One of these days, it'll come to me.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by preston1980 View Post

    Well At least the Trans Am has the show night Rider.
    Camaros have a movie "transformers"

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by secondgearscratch View Post
    im assuming that
    A. ford produces more mustangs than chevy did f bodies
    B. most people in the market went for the less expensive car, and since all the buyers werent young kids or early to mid 20s, its understandable that the smaller v8 and less expensive cruiser would sell in higher volumes, as not all care solely about power.

    as far as second rate...their are slim differences in the build quality between the two pony cars. most of it has to do with personal preference, but it seems to me that the older crowd would prefer a taller car, and one you can sit up in, not slide down into like an f body. to most, 240 hp is fine as a dd, and i can see the mustang being easier to live with, as evidence of what i see and the age group that typically owns either the gt or the f body (in my community).

    the ls1 is a much better powerplant than the 2v, and at the same time, the drivetrain for the gts is clearly more solid (you cant even launch an f body on dr's without killing SOMETHING).

    the pony cars were never really expected to sell hugely, and it seems ford made a smart move in hindsight by paying attention to comfort and ride rather than raw power such as an ls1 euipped f body. i think the mustang handles alot better and feels smoother, but driving an f body is like using a fine tuned machine built for one purpose....torque. lots of it.

    tit for tat, they are of very similar quality outside and in.

    i grossly prefer an f body to anything else. just my opinion.

    Probably some of the best ways to see it, that i heard

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD View Post
    LOL. His name was actually "Bob", and he posted in the old Forum, prior to the LS1.com meltdown. He was a civilian contractor/engineer working for the USN up in the NE somewhere. He eventually got banned. For the life of me though, I can't remember his screen name. One of these days, it'll come to me.

    99ZLE1 or something. How could anyone ever forget. Guy was hilarious.

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